Is it worth it to go from 342 to 363?

[stangboy]

Hey guys I'm about to build a Dart based stroker. I have everything to do a 342 but I'm thinging about spending the extra $500 to buy the 4.125 pistons to make it a 363. Are those extra cubes going to give me that much more hp to warrant that extra $500? I have a set of AFR 185 heads, I'll be ordering a custom cam, Holley Systemax II intake, 75mm TB, etc. I'm thinking about upgrading to AFR 205s. I'll only do the 363 if I get the 205s tho. What do you guys thing?

 

[NIKwoaC]

I think you should be more concerned with the top end parts you're putting on it. Those parts you listed...

I have a set of AFR 185 heads, I'll be ordering a custom cam, Holley Systemax II intake, 75mm TB

... Are 302 parts, IMHO. You would probably stand to gain more by putting money in better flowing parts than you would the extra cubic inches. I would unquestionably be ditching the 185s and going after the AFR 205s and the biggest TB you can hog out that intake to match (which is probably an 80mm). Really, the SysteMax is a good intake BUT I would be considering an intake that can handle a 90mm TB, like a Trick Flow R or a Victor 5.0.

That said, if you haven't got it together yet, why not run the bigger pistons? There is no replacement for displacement. For argument's sake, let's say you make the exact same specific horsepower (hp/ci) out of each engine. Let's say you make 425 HP out of the 342 (1.24 hp/ci). That equates to 451 hp out of the 363.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I think you should be more concerned with the top end parts you're putting on it. Those parts you listed...



... Are 302 parts, IMHO. You would probably stand to gain more by putting money in better flowing parts than you would the extra cubic inches. I would unquestionably be ditching the 185s and going after the AFR 205s and the biggest TB you can hog out that intake to match (which is probably an 80mm). Really, the SysteMax is a good intake BUT I would be considering an intake that can handle a 90mm TB, like a Trick Flow R or a Victor 5.0.

That said, if you haven't got it together yet, why not run the bigger pistons? There is no replacement for displacement. For argument's sake, let's say you make the exact same specific horsepower (hp/ci) out of each engine. Let's say you make 425 HP out of the 342 (1.24 hp/ci). That equates to 451 hp out of the 363.

While I agree w/ Nik on the old adage of no replacement for displacement,..if you bore that block to 4.125, AND if a cylinder wall is ever damaged by a (take your pick) broken ring, ring land, piston pin, connecting rod, etc. the "replacement" you'll end up dealing with is the entire block, as opposed to having to reserve capability to over bore it for that calamity should it ever arise. (or you'll have to have that cylinder sleeved). Boring it to capacity will make it more costly to repair, and given the smallish cylinder heads you currently have, will probably not warrant spending the money for the 363.

Lastly, I'm sure that a dart block has ample wall thickness to support the 4.125 bore, but I'm wondering if the engine will run hotter as a result.

 

[stangboy]

I don't think I'll have any cooling issues due to the bore size. I'm sure Dart thought of that when they designed their blocks....well, I hope they did. I really want to get the 205s but my budget won't allow me to get too many other parts like another intake and TB. I already have most of the parts for this motor. I will have to refinance a loan I have to get the money to get the heads and pistons.

 

[VibrantRedGT]

You can always change the induction later. Those parts are pretty hot so they will sell rather quickly. I went with Holley Intake, 70MM TB, Pro-M 80MM on my 347 stroker with 185 Heads. It was very quick and the motor was toquey. I went with a huge exhaust system 1-3/4" Long Tubes, 3" Prochamber, 3" Cat Back which helped.

If I were to do it again, 363 from Woody @ Fordstrokers and 205 heads with more aggressive induction if kept N/A.

 

[stangboy]

I was about to by a shortblock from Woody but a friend of mine gave me a HELL OF A DEAL on this Dart Sportsman 8.2 block, Scat 342 forged rotating assembly, billet steel flywheel and SFI balancer(everything still brand new in the boxes). So, I'm getting all the machining and assembly done locally. This motor will be mostly driven in N/A trim but I do plan to spray at least a 150hp shot occasionally depending on how much power it makes N/A.

 

[Boosted92LX]

While I agree w/ Nik on the old adage of no replacement for displacement,..if you bore that block to 4.125, AND if a cylinder wall is ever damaged by a (take your pick) broken ring, ring land, piston pin, connecting rod, etc. the "replacement" you'll end up dealing with is the entire block, as opposed to having to reserve capability to over bore it for that calamity should it ever arise. (or you'll have to have that cylinder sleeved). Boring it to capacity will make it more costly to repair, and given the smallish cylinder heads you currently have, will probably not warrant spending the money for the 363.

Lastly, I'm sure that a dart block has ample wall thickness to support the 4.125 bore, but I'm wondering if the engine will run hotter as a result.

Mike, those Dart blocks will safely go to 4.185... So if you bung up your big bore engine, you can... make it a bigger bore engine. This gives you .060 over the 4.125 big bore which honestly IS more than you can safely overbore the stock 302. Dart blocks are a thing of beauty. And I want one....

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Mike, those Dart blocks will safely go to 4.185... So if you bung up your big bore engine, you can... make it a bigger bore engine. This gives you .060 over the 4.125 big bore which honestly IS more than you can safely overbore the stock 302. Dart blocks are a thing of beauty. And I want one....

They don't make no stinkin' dart blocks for a 4.6

 

[NIKwoaC]

Mike, those Dart blocks will safely go to 4.185... So if you bung up your big bore engine, you can... make it a bigger bore engine. This gives you .060 over the 4.125 big bore which honestly IS more than you can safely overbore the stock 302. Dart blocks are a thing of beauty. And I want one....

Ha, beat me to it. Yep, the Dart blocks can handle a ton of bore. My next short block will likely be a Dart 363.

 

[Rick 91GT]

The AFR 205 can take advantage of the larger bore but id be looking at some other things as well. The larger bore can cause some detonation issues with the larger flame travel area amongst other things.

If the combo is right the extra cubic inches is good. Id prefer to see more then the 4.00" bore you have planned even with the AFR 185. I've sonic tested the DART, a 4.2" bore is possible. Most companies offer a 4.155" piston after that you get into custom. If you decide to change I have a set of Probe SRS pistons sitting on my shelf 4.125" bore if you can use them Ill let them go heavily discounted.

 

[stangboy]

The AFR 205 can take advantage of the larger bore but id be looking at some other things as well. The larger bore can cause some detonation issues with the larger flame travel area amongst other things.

If the combo is right the extra cubic inches is good. Id prefer to see more then the 4.00" bore you have planned even with the AFR 185. I've sonic tested the DART, a 4.2" bore is possible. Most companies offer a 4.155" piston after that you get into custom. If you decide to change I have a set of Probe SRS pistons sitting on my shelf 4.125" bore if you can use them Ill let them go heavily discounted.

I PM'ed you

 

[turbogt]

Mike, those Dart blocks will safely go to 4.185... So if you bung up your big bore engine, you can... make it a bigger bore engine. This gives you .060 over the 4.125 big bore which honestly IS more than you can safely overbore the stock 302. Dart blocks are a thing of beauty. And I want one....

This.. and the advantages of the 4.125 will mostly be gained by unshrouding the valves.. its better any way you put it.. you will still have tons of overbore room as well.

spelling errors brought to you by tapatalk

 

[NIKwoaC]

The AFR 205 can take advantage of the larger bore but id be looking at some other things as well. The larger bore can cause some detonation issues with the larger flame travel area amongst other things.

If the combo is right the extra cubic inches is good. Id prefer to see more then the 4.00" bore you have planned even with the AFR 185. I've sonic tested the DART, a 4.2" bore is possible. Most companies offer a 4.155" piston after that you get into custom. If you decide to change I have a set of Probe SRS pistons sitting on my shelf 4.125" bore if you can use them Ill let them go heavily discounted.

Rick be hookin you uuuuuuup!

Rick, good point on the detonation thing.

 

[Boosted92LX]

They don't make no stinkin' dart blocks for a 4.6

Well, those blocks are tough as hell anyway, unlike a 302 block.... And, due to Ford's brilliant "modular" idea of 100mm bore spacing, the holes are simply too close together to open up that far. Because of this, best way to get power out of a mod IMO is air stuffage....(Yay turbo!!)

 

[hoopty5.0]

Because of this, best way to get power out of a mod IMO is air stuffage....(Yay turbo!!)

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink..........Until you stuff a fire hose down its' throat"

 

[stangboy]

This.. and the advantages of the 4.125 will mostly be gained by unshrouding the valves.. its better any way you put it.. you will still have tons of overbore room as well.

spelling errors brought to you by tapatalk

I've heard about unshrouding valves but what exactly is involved with doing that? If I buy a $1800+ set of heads I'm not really going to be excited about spending MORE money on modifying a BRAND NEW set of heads...I don't really have that kind of money.

 

[stangboy]

Oh, another thing...fuel. I have and Aeromotive 340lph pump in the tank. Will that be enough to feed a 363? What size injectors will I need? I was going to be using 39s for the 342, do I need to go up to 60s for the 363? Will a 90mm 03 Cobra MAF be enough?

 

[Noobz347]

They don't make no stinkin' dart blocks for a 4.6

4.6... 4.6... OH! Now I remember... I have one of those on my weed eater!

 

[turbogt]

I've heard about unshrouding valves but what exactly is involved with doing that? If I buy a $1800+ set of heads I'm not really going to be excited about spending MORE money on modifying a BRAND NEW set of heads...I don't really have that kind of money.

You aren't modifying anything.. The bigger bore "unshrouds" the valves, meaning it allows them to flow more. The heads don't need to be touched.

 

[LarsD]

Knowing what I know now I wish I'd gone with at least 205 TFS heads and a 363 bottom end. Or an 03/04 Cobra swap.