I've officially decided to go turbo on my 68

65ShelbyClone · Mar 11, 2006

10secgoal said:
Shelby, the more I think about it the more I think I may stop at 800hp. Or somewhere in that area. As long as it's till fun at the track and can get it to hook, or relatively so, then I haven't gone to far.

I can understand it from that perspective too. When power gets so peaky and high that the car is dangerous to drive on the street, suddenly 1200hp doesnt seem so usable.

10secgoal · Mar 11, 2006

65ShelbyClone said:
I can understand it from that perspective too. When power gets so peaky and high that the car is dangerous to drive on the street, suddenly 1200hp doesnt seem so usable.

Yeah, it's nice to say, but a complete waste of money to sustain that HP if you can't use it. Rods are $$ at that HP. I envy Pauls setup alot. I think that's the perfect motor and setup. Strong block, capable of low 10's, and a real driver.

classic boost · Mar 11, 2006

10secgoal said:
I envy Pauls setup alot.

i don't know why. your car is just as quick as mine.

10secgoal · Mar 11, 2006

HA, mine doesn't do 105 in the 1/8.(Yet, and I haven't broke the block yet either.) But yours is CLEAN, and uncluttered. How hard are those plugs to get to ?

classic boost · Mar 11, 2006

10secgoal said:
How hard are those plugs to get to ?

easy as pie. the primaries go upwards, so there is gobs of room under the log.

Mustang1969 · Mar 12, 2006

I have to agree with some of you guys. Once you go turbo, you never go back. I started out with a Galant VR4 a few years ago, first its a boost controller, then a 3" exhaust. Then you want more. Bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, more fuel, etc. By the time everything was said any done, I was running 27 PSI on the street on 111 octane. ~450 HP on a 4 door family car can get scary, even with the AWD. Although it got tiresome once I had a 9 lb Fidanza flywheel, 2900 LB. clutch, and a set of huge cams sitting through traffic on the I-5. You need more and more until driveability becomes a problem.

Anyway, I'm definitely on the turbo Mustang boat now. With the Galant gone and the Mustang just sitting around, I'd like to build a 351W variant with some medium sized single and road race it. There's nothing like a turbo when it spools and this mild little 351C isn't cutting it. Looking forward to the progression of your projects, guys.

65ShelbyClone · Mar 12, 2006

Mustang1969 said:
With the Galant gone and the Mustang just sitting around, I'd like to build a 351W variant with some medium sized single and road race it.

This may be OT, but.....you had a Galant VR4?! Dang, I don't know if I've even seen one those in person. I've seen more Cordias and Mustang SVOs than Galant VR4s(maybe 2 Cordias and 5 SVOs), and supposedly there were less than 10,000 SVOs built.

Heh, "mild" 351C. Turbo that thing an be happy happy. Most of the Cleveland crowd will tell you than a Hard-Blok filled 351C will take 100-200hp more than a 351W.

I have this really ugly plan for my '68 if I can find the turbo parts; twin KKK K30 turbos(~350 max hp each) from a generator. Even if I could do better with new technology, the K30s top out at only ~88,000rmpm and will be loud as hell. ...its also a T6 large frame.

10secgoal · Mar 12, 2006

Are Galants VR4's that rare ? My buddy had one when I was in. He said he needed bigger injectors but he put down 330 to all four. Was a blast to watch him drop the clutch at 7k and all you hear is a chirp.

Mustang1969 · Mar 12, 2006

65 ShelbyClone said:
This may be OT, but.....you had a Galant VR4?! Dang, I don't know if I've even seen one those in person. I've seen more Cordias and Mustang SVOs than Galant VR4s(maybe 2 Cordias and 5 SVOs), and supposedly there were less than 10,000 SVOs built.

Yeah, I had a grey one with no sunroof and no CD player. With those options it was 1 of 16 and 1 of 3000 imported over 2 years.

10secgoal said:
Are Galants VR4's that rare ? My buddy had one when I was in. He said he needed bigger injectors but he put down 330 to all four. Was a blast to watch him drop the clutch at 7k and all you hear is a chirp.

After I sold my car, the guy had it dynoed and it made 330 whp on pump gas and like 21 PSI. I know we're both from the San Diego area.. was it grey and do you know a guy named James?

We'll see about the Cleveland. It looks like a bitch to try and fit any sort of turbo headers between the shocktowers. I figured with a Windsor, I'd have a motor that wasn't as wide and I'd be able to get a good set of aluminum heads for WAY cheaper than that of a Cleveland.

10secgoal · Mar 12, 2006

Mustang1969 said:
After I sold my car, the guy had it dynoed and it made 330 whp on pump gas and like 21 PSI. I know we're both from the San Diego area.. was it grey and do you know a guy named James?

I forget his name. It's been a few years. It was grey,4 door. He was russian of some sort(Don't know exactly what country.)

10secgoal · Mar 12, 2006

Mustang1969 said:
We'll see about the Cleveland. It looks like a bitch to try and fit any sort of turbo headers between the shocktowers. I figured with a Windsor, I'd have a motor that wasn't as wide and I'd be able to get a good set of aluminum heads for WAY cheaper than that of a Cleveland.

Just drop in some open chamered 4v heads and run 'em.

mtbdoc · Mar 12, 2006

What keeps causing me pain and heartache is the block: it seems that if I'm going to go $2000 for a block, it just doesn't make sense not to go totally psycho with the whole package...but man, that can get really pricey in a hurry. A 351W w/ stroker crank and decent rods/crank just looks to be an accident waiting to happen at >500rwhp. Then again, I don't know what to believe.

I do know that your beautiful log-headers [as well as the entire package!] make me drool. That's why I bought a KB blower in the first place, thinking that would work with the shock towers. Now, they're gone [in the 'vert]...TURBO! The 2+2...still watching the suspension development to see what shakes out.

rhyno9 · Mar 12, 2006

mtbdoc said:
A 351W w/ stroker crank and decent rods/crank just looks to be an accident waiting to happen at >500rwhp. Then again, I don't know what to believe.

There are lots of guys running turbos on stroked 351's using stock block that are well beyond 500 rwhp.

The 302 is on borrowed time at that level.

10secgoal · Mar 12, 2006

rhyno9 said:
There are lots of guys running turbos on stroked 351's using stock block that are well beyond 500 rwhp.

The 302 is on borrowed time at that level.

Hells yeah. I wouldn't even stroke unless you are trying to make over 800.

65ShelbyClone · Mar 12, 2006

Yeah, a 351W will take 500rwhp longer than a 302, but 600rwhp starts into the danger zone for even a 351. 650 and the main webs seem to start pulling out.

10secgoal said:
Just drop in some open chamered 4v heads and run 'em.

Dang, I didn't notice his sig until now. I don't think that even open chamber heads would take the compression down far enough.....plus all that lost quench. Maybe a Windsor is a more practical choice. If I didn't want a dyno queen, but still wanted more than a stock block could take, I would look at a Dart 302.

rhyno9 · Mar 13, 2006

Mustang1969 said:
We'll see about the Cleveland. It looks like a bitch to try and fit any sort of turbo headers between the shocktowers. I figured with a Windsor, I'd have a motor that wasn't as wide and I'd be able to get a good set of aluminum heads for WAY cheaper than that of a Cleveland.

Check out turbomustangs.com and look for a guy named ben sinclair who goes by tom servo or something like that. He is fabbing up headers for a cleveland in a 69 coupe.

mtbdoc · Mar 13, 2006

Argghhh....351W w/ stroker + turbo = broken block. Well built 427W Dart shortblock from ADP >$5000. Take the add'l weight of the dart block, weight of turbos, weight of intercooler...

And then my friend reminds me he has a 460 sitting around in the shop. Hmmm...stroker kits are out there. Heads...not cheap...but then again, neither are the AFR 225s to flow w/ the turbos. Manifold, carb...simplicity.

I am going NUTS with this stuff! And, as I am going off-topic, I think I will start a new thread!

rhyno9 · Mar 13, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Argghhh....351W w/ stroker + turbo = broken block. Well built 427W Dart shortblock from ADP >$5000. Take the add'l weight of the dart block, weight of turbos, weight of intercooler...

And then my friend reminds me he has a 460 sitting around in the shop. Hmmm...stroker kits are out there. Heads...not cheap...but then again, neither are the AFR 225s to flow w/ the turbos. Manifold, carb...simplicity.

I am going NUTS with this stuff! And, as I am going off-topic, I think I will start a new thread!

How much power do you really think you need in a vert???? I guess if you have then money you can build a 600,700,800,900, or 1000 hp vert. What are you planning on doing with that much power? It just seems to me that you are thinking too much about a number and not the application of the number.

mtbdoc · Mar 13, 2006

That is a valid question. To be honest, it is hard to say, as I haven't driven this car in years! I do know what 5-600 rwhp feel like...and it is a rush! And that is the issue that I get back to...how much is enough?

Power is addicting, and like almost any addiction, we get used to it and want more. My GTO sure felt a lot faster the first couple of times out. Then I start thinking about forged internals, etc, but have managed to "just say no" [the LSx engines are fairly reliable to 550 rwhp w/ stock internals]. Now, it is a fairly heavy car, and so incredibly well built it is stone-silent at 120 mph [other than a bit of wind noise], and very muted. No one has a clue how fast that they are going until I point it out. The 'vert sure won't be in that class!

I truly wish I could just drop a 500 rwhp turbo'd 351W in and see how it feels. Maybe I'd say THAT'S ENOUGH! But that isn't safe on the stock block, anyway, right? And hence my problem.

Hopefully I will get some input on the other thread I've started, and see if I can get some input on the BB swap from someone w/ experience.

To turn this thread around, what can a STOCK 351W make w/ boost? Then to get >400rwhp, need heads and pistons, right? Stock rods? At that point, longer stroke? And of course, I assume a bit more cam? I do know that planning from the outset works a lot better than to keep changing parts.

Go ahead and inform me AND beat on me...my wife would probably tell you I need it .

jbuening · Mar 13, 2006

Good luck finding a transmission that will hold 6-700hp that you can afford. I won't even begin on getting traction with that much power Oh and if you have that many ponies under the hood of a convertible, be prepared to twist it like a pretzel.

I've officially decided to go turbo on my 68

65ShelbyClone

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