Just Got Back from the Track; Kinda Disappointed

sneaky98gt

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Apr 23, 2008
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Went to the track in Fayetteville, NC tonight. DA was 1000 ft +/-. Track was prepped more than well enough to hook my car.


Short Version

Ran a 13.25 @ 104.8 (previous best was 13.12 @ 104.8), even though the DA was over 1000 feet less and the transmission was shifting better (Jmod). I'm not really sure why such a big loss, but I'm thinking it was the track and I'm hoping to get back to the first track sometime soon to validate/invalidate these times.


Long Version

Best 1/4 ET slip:
RT: -.002
60': 2.03
330': 5.63
1/8 ET: 8.58
1/8 trap: 84.21
1/4 ET: 13.25
1/4 trap: 104.8

And this run really was a fluke. The next best 1/4 ET after that was a 13.30, and the next best trap was a 103.9. Best short time all night was a 2.00, but I'll get to that later.

So I was hoping for 12s, and thus I came away a little disappointed. :( As a refresher, last time I went to a 1/4 track (albeit a different one than tonight), I ran a 13.12 at 104.8, IIRC, (and lots of other 13.1-13.2 runs) with a 2500 feet density altitude and a really lazy shifting transmission (you saw the link in the other thread). I was really thinking that 1500 feet of density altitude, 18 psi in the drag radials instead of 35, and the Jmod would drop .12 seconds. Instead, it added it. :( Or at least something did.

I'm 90% sure that something is up with that track. We had about 10 guys from our club racing tonight, and not a single one (other than me actually) came within half a second of their previous best ET (I came within a couple of tenths), even though the DA was over 1000 feet better. Almost everyone was down 4-5 mph down, too, with a couple guys down as much as 7. Don't know what exactly, and maybe I'm just making excuses for my poor times, but I think something is up with the track. Any of you local guys have any experience there?

Short times. Well, at least I can say they were consistent. Every single one of my 10 runs was between 2.00 and 2.04. Why they are suddenly down a tenth from the 1.92-1.94 the last two times I been to the track, I do not know. I tried everything: more air pressure, less air pressure, higher launch rpm, lower launch rpm, leaving off of idle, you name it, nothing changed the short times a lick. It was dead hooking (and I mean dead hooking), and that was it. Foot on the brake, foot on the gas, lift left foot, drop right foot, and go. Nothing else to it. I have no clue why they are suddenly down a tenth of a second. I was thinking the cooler air might actually drop them a bit. I was wrong, apparently.

Good news is my RTs were great tonight. I red lighted on my best run by .002; my worst after that was a .09, and I had a whole slew of them less than .05.

Played around with the shifting settings in my programmer; nothing really changed anything there. It won't chirp the drag radials, but it does shift nice and firm.

I just don't know. Something is up, whether it be the car or the track. A 3500 pound, 300 rwhp car should run faster than 13.2. I really want to go back to Rockingham, and I am definitely going to before I give in and admit that it doesn't have a 12 second pass in it. But it has kinda got me a wondering. Sadly, the Rock doesn't have another test'n'tune until Halloween weekend, during which I'm sure they'll be packed.

All in all, it was still a fun night. There were a couple of GT500s, a couple of Terminators, a Bullitt, a 2011 V6, and about 5 GTs. So I got lots of spectator action. One of the Cobras actually had a Kenne Bell making 625 rwhp; I beat him....twice...:D. He was on itty, bitty street tires with no traction for the first half of the track. Treed him both times, as well. Trapping 125+ though...lol.

Alright. End novel. And I'm going to bed.
 
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kuwait

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bad night? humid? hot? many things could contribute to the loss of a tenth , supercharged cars are extremely sensitive to weather changes and i know this first hand , i beaten my friend's GT500 in my car every single time i raced him depending on weather it would average from a car length to 3 depending on weather really.

remember you don't have an intercooler (timing being pulled up top) , you could have heat soaked before you ran , prep is bad (thus losing 60' feet time) , list is infinite and the difference is negligible don't give up just yet about getting into 12s , dust your self up and prepare for the next time your around at track.
 

Gearbanger 101

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I ran a 13.2 with my blower car the first time out. Of course my car outweighs yours by 700lbs and it wasn't cutting anything better than 2.3X 60ft times on street tires, but still....it happens. :shrug:
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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bad night? humid? hot? many things could contribute to the loss of a tenth , supercharged cars are extremely sensitive to weather changes and i know this first hand , i beaten my friend's GT500 in my car every single time i raced him depending on weather it would average from a car length to 3 depending on weather really.

remember you don't have an intercooler (timing being pulled up top) , you could have heat soaked before you ran , prep is bad (thus losing 60' feet time) , list is infinite and the difference is negligible don't give up just yet about getting into 12s , dust your self up and prepare for the next time your around at track.

I ran a 13.2 with my blower car the first time out. Of course my car outweighs yours by 700lbs and it wasn't cutting anything better than 2.3X 60ft times on street tires, but still....it happens. :shrug:

I know a lot of people, whom of which would cry at a moment of glory, for those times. And you beat several typically sick cars. Sounds like a really awsome night to me.

Weather was decent; 70 degrees and 50% humidity, 100 feet elevation. The DA was at least 1000-1500 feet better than the last time I went to a 1/4 track at Rockingham. I was waiting at least 15 minutes, usually closer to 30 between runs, so I don't think anything was heat soaked. Any my first run was the slowest, and the 2nd to last was the fastest, so I think that throws that theory out of the window.

Prep was fine. I was building it up until the rear tires were breaking loose, then flooring it, and it was dead-hooking. :shrug: That's what I've always done; since I've had the blower, that method has been getting me low 1.9x 60's, even in really bad weather.

Come to think of it, I went to my home track in Creswell one time earlier this summer. It's only 1/8 mile, but a very nice track, and I know it's accurate. It was in June when I went, and I remember the DA was over 3000 feet. I was running 8.5x @ 84.x or 85 with a 1.9x 60' every single pass. My best 1/8 tonight was in the slip I originally posted. The weather was TERRIBLE this summer, and yet I still pulled better times, traps, and 60's. :shrug:

And just a few more times from other cars. LS1 Camaros with drag radials were going 13.8-9 @ 100-101. 6 liter GTOs were going 13.6 @ 102. 5.7 liter GTOs weren't breaking out of 14s. Full bolt on, drag radial 99-04 GTs were going 14.4-5 @ 98-99. Bolt on, drag radial SRT-8 Challengers were going 13.5 @ 104.

If every single one of those aren't off by AT LEAST half a second, then Bob's your uncle.

stall converter and you're there.

Definitely. Short times are killing me, even on good track days.

A 13.2 with a blower? Ouch!

I know the times are off, but I'm still more than happy with my car. No need to be an ass about it, especially when your car won't come within a full second of those times. It is still a stock NPI headed auto at only 6 pounds of boost. Most seem to think it runs pretty well for what it is.

I've always ran my best times down @ Fayetteville:shrug: Im going next weekend, see if I can beat my times from benson. Ran my 13.3 @ 104/ 8.5 @ 80 down there.

NA pass with 271rwhp/310rwtq, 3540lbs
YouTube - modded 200 gt vert 13.3 pass

Very weird. As I said earlier, not a guy in our group was even several tenths away from our best times. I was actually the closest, at a couple tenths slower.

Question for you. The times you have gone to Fayetteville, is a perfect reaction time .500? It was for us last night, which I found very weird. I've never seen that before. It took me several runs to catch on. I was thinking, "There is NO WAY I'm cutting half a second reaction times." lol.

That's just one more thing that has me wondering about the track/timing systems on this particular night.
 

Tim2002GT

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Apr 10, 2002
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YOur tire psi may have had something to do with your mph not going up. Goind from 35 to 18 is a big drop and adds alot of rolling resistance. I try to run as much pressure as I can and still hook. With my ET street radials, my best results came from using 22 psi.
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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YOur tire psi may have had something to do with your mph not going up. Goind from 35 to 18 is a big drop and adds alot of rolling resistance. I try to run as much pressure as I can and still hook. With my ET street radials, my best results came from using 22 psi.

Ah, you do make a good point that I haven't thought of. I'm sure that took some away from the trap, although I'm not sure how much. And for reference, that was 18 psi cold; I checked it after a few runs and it was in the 22 range. That's what I've been told the Nittos like.

One problem: that's how much pressure I was running when I ran this summer at my 1/8 track (when I was running 8.5 at 85). I played around with it a lot and found that 18-22 was hooking the best for me at that track on that day. I possibly may have not needed that little last night. So my 1/8 ET and trap are still lower with the same psi in the tires, same weight, better weather, and the J-mod. :shrug:

Lesson learned: next time, I'll start at 30 and just work my way back down.
 

tank_567

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Mar 19, 2007
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Question for you. The times you have gone to Fayetteville, is a perfect reaction time .500? It was for us last night, which I found very weird. I've never seen that before. It took me several runs to catch on. I was thinking, "There is NO WAY I'm cutting half a second reaction times." lol.

That's just one more thing that has me wondering about the track/timing systems on this particular night.

I think just on standard tree it is(.500), but on pro I think its set to .005. I checked my time sheets and all of mine are like that too(.500).
 

Nightfire

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Dec 1, 2002
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I know the times are off, but I'm still more than happy with my car. No need to be an ass about it, especially when your car won't come within a full second of those times. It is still a stock NPI headed auto at only 6 pounds of boost. Most seem to think it runs pretty well for what it is.

Wow someone is super sensitive. I meant no offense with my comment. I simply thought that a blown V8 mustang in the 13's was a dissappointment. Now I see that you've mentioned that LS1 and LS2 cars were running high 13/low 14 times that night (for whatever reason), which puts your 13.2 times in perspective and is very respectable.
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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Wow someone is super sensitive. I meant no offense with my comment. I simply thought that a blown V8 mustang in the 13's was a dissappointment. Now I see that you've mentioned that LS1 and LS2 cars were running high 13/low 14 times that night (for whatever reason), which puts your 13.2 times in perspective and is very respectable.

My bad man. I apologize. I don't mean any offense either. I was still a little ticked off at myself and the car for not being any faster than I was. It is more than a little disheartening to lose a couple of tenths instead of gain them when I got much better weather and a solid shifting transmission.

Anyways, here's about half of the videos of me from that night. I'll get the other half uploaded when I get them from my camera buddy.

YouTube - Supercharged 1998 Mustang GT vs. SRT-4 Neon

YouTube - Supercharged 1998 Mustang GT vs F-Body LS1 Carmaro SS

YouTube - Supercharged 1998 Mustang GT vs. Full Bolt-On 2004 Mustang GT

YouTube - Supercharged 1998 Mustang vs. 2003 Kenne Bell Cobra

YouTube - Supercharged 1998 Mustang vs. 2003 Kenne Bell Cobra, Round 2
 

Gearbanger 101

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That dude in the Cobra launching on bald street tires or something? That was probably one of the worst 60ft performances I've ever seen from a car so powerful.
 

Winters98GT

Whoop...whoop-whoop-whoop-whoop...GANGNAM STYLE!!!
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Looks good Will, you will get the car in the 12's with no problem this fall.

Also, what is the word about this track compared to your other track? My times vary 2 full tenths between HRP, Lonestar and San Antonio Raceway(all within 200 miles) even with similar DA and 60ft times. Some tracks are just faster than others. Eitherway, looks like you were real consistant! Good kills!
 

sneaky98gt

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Apr 23, 2008
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NC State University
That dude in the Cobra launching on bald street tires or something? That was probably one of the worst 60ft performances I've ever seen from a car so powerful.

They were street tires, although I'm not sure the size or brand. It was his first time to the track with a car he had only owned a week or so, so he was REALLY babying it. He cut 2.45ish 60's both times I ran him, with .8ish RTs, vs. my 2.0 short times and .05 RTs. So I was ahead by 1.3 or so seconds at the 60 foot mark.

Looks good Will, you will get the car in the 12's with no problem this fall.

Also, what is the word about this track compared to your other track? My times vary 2 full tenths between HRP, Lonestar and San Antonio Raceway(all within 200 miles) even with similar DA and 60ft times. Some tracks are just faster than others. Eitherway, looks like you were real consistant! Good kills!

Thanks man, I sure hope so. If I can't, I guess that'll mean I've got to spend some more money on it. i.e. methanol and more boost. :D Might do it anyway. :D

Still not sure about the track. Bob (tank_567) said he ran his best times NA there, but I'm not sure if he ran at Rockingham with the same set-up. I do know for a fact that none of the other guys in our club came within half a second of their best ETs, or 4 mph of their best traps. The SRT-4 I ran ran 13.4-13.5 @ 104-105 repeatedly on the same day I ran my best times at the Rock; his best this past weekend was a 14.1 @ 99.x on the EXACT same setup. At least 4 other guys had very similar results.

It is what it is, but this has just made me want to go back to another track that much more. Looking forward to it now.

all i can say is, I absolutely hate srt4's. You've done well, Will. Like mark said, you will surely be in the 12 second club soon enough.

lol, I generally dislike most import cars. The driver of this car is in our club and is a very chill guy. Heck, the club is mostly imports minus myself and an 01 Bullitt, but we all have the same goal: make our car faster at the drag strip. And pretty much everyone in the club is very friendly and chill about helping each other achieve that goal. I thoroughly enjoy hanging out with all of them.
 

bhuff30

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Looks like a bunch of fun. :D I'll definately have to get out to the track sometime this fall.

It sounds strange that everyone is consistently running a couple ticks slower. Was there any wind? Maybe a slight headwind.

A couple ideas for explaining slower times....

the J-mod increases the line pressure, correct? If so, it takes more power for the pump in your transmission to make the extra pressure. It may have countered the effect of faster shifts. However, keep the J-mod. The transmission will last much longer if it isn't slipping!

Also, when you stage, stage as shallow as possible. The timer starts when your front tires roll out of the beam. By shallow staging, you can effectively give yourself a 'running' start which can give shorter 60' and 1/4 times. Maybe you were staging deeper than usual?

Like someone else said, try running as much pressure in the tires as possible to still hook. It makes a difference. The front tires, you can even inflate to the maximum written on the sidewall, which is around 45-52psi, depending on the manufacturer and tire. Decreased rolling resistance does help. And of course, take any junk out of the car that you can: sub woofer, spare tire and jack, floor mats, McDonalds wrappers, rocket launchers, ect. Next time, make a pass without these changes, then make a pass with all of them combined. Each has a tiny effect, but add them together and it might just be enough.

The first time I ran a 12 was crazy. That night, I ran 10 passes in the low 13s, including some 13.0's. I loaded up my tools and other junk in the trunk, discouraged that I couldn't run a 12 and my friend encouraged me to make just one more pass with everything in the car. I did and ran a 12.97, with 1mph less trap speed. LOL. The extra 100lbs helped me get the traction to run a 12. :lol:
 

3ponyshow

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When I lived in NY, (similar DA) ran on Nitto's, 7 lbs of boost and had 325 rwhp, I ran the same times with the same 60's and trapped right were you are. Sounds to me you're right were you should expect to be. It's not like low 13's is slow.