Just Got Back from the Track; Kinda Disappointed

tank_567

Active Member
Mar 19, 2007
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Raleigh, Nc
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When I lived in NY, (similar DA) ran on Nitto's, 7 lbs of boost and had 325 rwhp, I ran the same times with the same 60's and trapped right were you are. Sounds to me you're right were you should expect to be. It's not like low 13's is slow.

I think he should have ran faster, I have ran at that track n/a with the same speed, a ton less hp, and i think the same tire (245/45/17 street tire). That car should be running mid-high 12s @ 110mph, could be the track that night or could be the tune:shrug:
 
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sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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sleepy termi driver, or walmart tires.....

Both

Looks like a bunch of fun. :D I'll definately have to get out to the track sometime this fall.

It sounds strange that everyone is consistently running a couple ticks slower. Was there any wind? Maybe a slight headwind.

No wind at all. There actually was a pretty big headwind the at Rockingham when I ran my best times.

A couple ideas for explaining slower times....

the J-mod increases the line pressure, correct? If so, it takes more power for the pump in your transmission to make the extra pressure. It may have countered the effect of faster shifts. However, keep the J-mod. The transmission will last much longer if it isn't slipping!

No, actually the opposite. The Jmod allow more fluid through via larger diameter holes instead of increased pressure. I actually backed the shift pressure way down in the tune because I found it wasn't beneficial when turned up

Also, when you stage, stage as shallow as possible. The timer starts when your front tires roll out of the beam. By shallow staging, you can effectively give yourself a 'running' start which can give shorter 60' and 1/4 times. Maybe you were staging deeper than usual?

I was staging like I always do: as shallow as possible.

Like someone else said, try running as much pressure in the tires as possible to still hook. It makes a difference. The front tires, you can even inflate to the maximum written on the sidewall, which is around 45-52psi, depending on the manufacturer and tire. Decreased rolling resistance does help. And of course, take any junk out of the car that you can: sub woofer, spare tire and jack, floor mats, McDonalds wrappers, rocket launchers, ect. Next time, make a pass without these changes, then make a pass with all of them combined. Each has a tiny effect, but add them together and it might just be enough.

Yea, the tire thing has me wondering. I'm sure that the decreased pressure in the rear was taking away from the trap and possibly ET, but just how much has me wondering. The front tires were at almost 50 psi.

Rocket launchers....lol. I had all the junk and subwoofers removed. I did leave the spare tire in, vs. taking it out with my best runs at Rockingham. But what are we talking about here? A couple hundredths difference tops?

And yes, I've been taking tools along in case I'm just that close to a 12, I'm gonna take the rear and passenger seats out. Those two together are probably worth upwards of a tenth.


The first time I ran a 12 was crazy. That night, I ran 10 passes in the low 13s, including some 13.0's. I loaded up my tools and other junk in the trunk, discouraged that I couldn't run a 12 and my friend encouraged me to make just one more pass with everything in the car. I did and ran a 12.97, with 1mph less trap speed. LOL. The extra 100lbs helped me get the traction to run a 12. :lol:

Haha, I remember reading an old thread about that. Unfortunately for me (or I should say fortunately), I don't have a traction problem at all. With the stock stall and stock gears, the 275 Nittos are more than getting the job done.

When I lived in NY, (similar DA) ran on Nitto's, 7 lbs of boost and had 325 rwhp, I ran the same times with the same 60's and trapped right were you are. Sounds to me you're right were you should expect to be. It's not like low 13's is slow.

No, low 13s is pretty quick, although it's hard to get that through to some folks.

I'm not expecting much more than a 12.99, but I do know it should run better than a 13.25 with a 1000' DA. There are LOTS of sub 300 rwhp GTs running 12s, although I can't think of any that aren't a 5 speed or stalled auto.

It's gonna happen, one way or another. It's just gonna take a good track and cool weather. I'm ready to make some passes in some sub-50 degree temperatures.

I think he should have ran faster, I have ran at that track n/a with the same speed, a ton less hp, and i think the same tire (245/45/17 street tire). That car should be running mid-high 12s @ 110mph, could be the track that night or could be the tune:shrug:

Yup, it's cars like yours that really convince me I should be running faster than I am. I'm on a 275/40-17 Nitto drag radial, although I have cut similar 60's when I was NA and on a 255 street tire. And it wasn't the tire that was holding me back; I had plenty of traction; it's the power/stock stall/stock 3.27 gears.

Could be the tune. I am occasionally getting a tiny bit of detonation at the top of 2nd gear, but I'm not sure if I'm losing power elsewhere because of it. Someone I've talked to through email that has a similar setup as me said that I need to relocate my IAT sensor; it's currently in the intake tube; he said it needs to be on the blower itself so that it is measuring the air actually going into the heads and not air before the blower, and can make timing adjustments as necessary. He said if I do that that it would be a good idea to get it re-tuned. If I get it re-tuned, I'm almost definitely going to get BWR to do it.
 

BurningRubber

10 Year Member
Dec 6, 2004
1,865
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Your MPH being the same indicates the car is running just as strong. I wouldn't sweat it, chock it up to the D/A mainly, or the launch, tire PSI, something else aside from the car not running good.
 

3ponyshow

Founding Member
Jun 26, 2002
319
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Las Vegas
And yes, I've been taking tools along in case I'm just that close to a 12, I'm gonna take the rear and passenger seats out. Those two together are probably worth upwards of a tenth.
I'd be careful with that too. First, I think you're over estimating the weight reduction you're going to get and second, the last time I let someone talk me into that before I had SFC's, I couldn't get my passenger seat back in and I was only running 240 NA at the time. (I didn't see SFC's in your sig).

Yes, I've seen alot of NA cars with less rwhp run 12's but we're not NA and comparing them won't provide you the answer. They're a different animal. We have 14 second cars. Adding an S/C makes us 13 second cars. To be a true 12 second car, you're going to have to increase power and/or reduce weight and/or enhance your platform (i.e. suspension, CA's, etc).

I'm no expert, but I do spend alot of time researching this stuff and here's a couple o' observations for what they're worth.

The comment above about the tire pressure is right on. You only want to drop enough to hook. What provides an advantage at launch can be a detriment down the track.
As for power, I've seen setups like your with power pipes occasionally getting into the 12's (seldom, but it happens). Pretty cheap additional power.
Gears are a great bang for the buck. They're a stand alone mod and relatively inexpensive.
A Torque Converter works well but you have to take into account the the impact it's going to have on the rest of your stock drivetrain. Plan on a trans cooler, shift kit and a 31 spline axle to help alleviate the additional strain. Maintaining balance is the key to longevity, right?
An Aftercooler for your S/C adds power while greatly reducing the heat your setup is being subjected to. These last 2 are not cheap, but on the other hand...
If I read a previous posts correctly, you made 10 passes? and you don't have an aftercooler? You had to be heat soaked dude.

I think your last comment made the most sense. Save your money and just wait for cooler weather. People often underestimate the impact temperature has, especially forced induction.
 

ninjastang125

New Member
Nov 1, 2008
591
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maryland
I say gut the car when you get to the track and get that npi in the 12s! Weight reductions are probably the easiest and also most looked over mod to getting a better e.t. Next time I go to the track I'm going to be as bare as possible,and try to hit 11s NA
 

bhuff30

Founding Member
Dec 11, 2001
6,035
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129
Olathe KS
Here is my experience on weight loss: the old rule of thumb of gaining .1 seconds and 1mph for every 100lbs weight loss seems pretty close to true for me. It isn't as easy as you think to find weight on your car. The passanger seat might weigh 45lbs, so we are talking about a gain of .05 seconds. It isn't easy to remove even 100lbs of weight, much less enough to gain 2-3 tenths.

The other problem is that a lot of the weight you can gain is over the rear axle. Sneaky doesn't seem to have any traction problems, so that will probably be ok.
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
2,387
144
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NC State University
I'd be careful with that too. First, I think you're over estimating the weight reduction you're going to get and second, the last time I let someone talk me into that before I had SFC's, I couldn't get my passenger seat back in and I was only running 240 NA at the time. (I didn't see SFC's in your sig).

Yes, I've seen alot of NA cars with less rwhp run 12's but we're not NA and comparing them won't provide you the answer. They're a different animal. We have 14 second cars. Adding an S/C makes us 13 second cars. To be a true 12 second car, you're going to have to increase power and/or reduce weight and/or enhance your platform (i.e. suspension, CA's, etc).

I'm no expert, but I do spend alot of time researching this stuff and here's a couple o' observations for what they're worth.

The comment above about the tire pressure is right on. You only want to drop enough to hook. What provides an advantage at launch can be a detriment down the track.
As for power, I've seen setups like your with power pipes occasionally getting into the 12's (seldom, but it happens). Pretty cheap additional power.
Gears are a great bang for the buck. They're a stand alone mod and relatively inexpensive.
A Torque Converter works well but you have to take into account the the impact it's going to have on the rest of your stock drivetrain. Plan on a trans cooler, shift kit and a 31 spline axle to help alleviate the additional strain. Maintaining balance is the key to longevity, right?
An Aftercooler for your S/C adds power while greatly reducing the heat your setup is being subjected to. These last 2 are not cheap, but on the other hand...
If I read a previous posts correctly, you made 10 passes? and you don't have an aftercooler? You had to be heat soaked dude.

I think your last comment made the most sense. Save your money and just wait for cooler weather. People often underestimate the impact temperature has, especially forced induction.

I may be overestimating the weight reduction stuff, but I'm only talking about if I'm within a few hundredths of a second of a 12 second pass. Spare tire + passenger seat + rear seat should get me more than a few hundredths. The friend of mine in the Bullitt said that his spare tire, seats, and lighter racing wheels (not drag welds, just stock aluminum ones) equaled right at 100 pounds.

So I can't take out the passenger seat with stock SFCs?

Probably won't do any addition mods other than possibly more boost and methanol. I like my fuel mileage and reliability. Adding a stall will surely start to really strain the stock drivetrain components.

Yes, I made 10 passes, but the first was just a few minutes after 7:00, and the last was just before midnight. I was allowing plenty of time between runs. And my worst runs were at the beginning of the night and best runs were at the end. So I think that theory is out.

And yes, I really want some 40-50 degree weather. I don't think traction will be a problem for me, regardless of how cold it is.

I say gut the car when you get to the track and get that npi in the 12s! Weight reductions are probably the easiest and also most looked over mod to getting a better e.t. Next time I go to the track I'm going to be as bare as possible,and try to hit 11s NA

Lol, as I said, if I'm within a few hundredths, I'm going to. And yes, I want my NPI to run 12s. Isn't something you see all that often.

Here is my experience on weight loss: the old rule of thumb of gaining .1 seconds and 1mph for every 100lbs weight loss seems pretty close to true for me. It isn't as easy as you think to find weight on your car. The passanger seat might weigh 45lbs, so we are talking about a gain of .05 seconds. It isn't easy to remove even 100lbs of weight, much less enough to gain 2-3 tenths.

The other problem is that a lot of the weight you can gain is over the rear axle. Sneaky doesn't seem to have any traction problems, so that will probably be ok.

Yea, I'm not looking to gain 2-3 tenths, or at least if I am, I won't get them through weight reduction. I'm just ready to get back to another track and see how legit these times were.
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
2,387
144
114
NC State University
its hard to tell anything without having the DA from both your previous best and this time.

This is why I always log weather data when I go to the track

I did. And I do. Previous DA was something between 2000 and 2500 feet (I don't remember exactly), and the DA this past weekend was right at 1000 feet.

This information only throws a kink into the situation as you would think I'd gain .12 seconds from the weather, not lose them.

I found out something last night while driving around the old country roads near my parents' house. I was reading on some old threads on TCCoA and other websites that were saying it was ok to manually shift the 4r70w as long as you had the J-mod done (and preferably a trans cooler). Well, I discovered it doesn't just shift a little harder, it's a knock your socks off, 3 second long peel when it shifts, shift. So I want to try manually shifting it next time I go to the track.