Let's talk 1911's.

wythors · Jan 31, 2012

Let me start by saying that in the distant past, I owned a Colt 1991A1 and a S&W Model 29 and loved the heck out of them. Life being life, the point came where I had to make a house payment or something along those lines and I was forced to sell them. Fast forward to recently and my wife decided that she wanted a gun in the house. We took a gun safety course so she could get familiar with them and she decided that she wanted a semi-automatic. She LOVED my buddy's Colt Mustang, so I got her the Sig copy of that, the P238 for Christmas. We've been to the range a couple of times with that and I've been reminded of how much I enjoy shooting. As a bonus, my wife LOVES shooting her pistol. I've got The Big Birthday coming up soon and my wonderful wife told me last night that I can pick out any pistol I want (within reason) and she'll buy it for me. So, here I am.

I am looking for a Commander-sized 1911-style .45 pistol. The one I am most strongly leaning towards at this time is the Sig-Sauer 1911 Carry. It has the mid-length barrel and the full-sized frame. The whole gun is de-horned and it has an 8-round magazine. I'm not absolutely stuck on this particular piece, but I haven't seen anything else that offers much more in a basic, self defense grade pistol.

Does anybody have an first hand experience with this or any other Sig 1911's?

Does anybody have any other models that they like and/or recommend and why?

Any favorite on-line sources for pistols?

I am going to buy a 1911, so I don't need to hear about how old-school they are (hey I drive a Fox) or how a Glock/HK/Taurus/etc is better or cheaper. I'm not looking to shoot 2-inch groups at 30 yards. I just want a nice shooting, well-built .45 that will hit center of mass at 20 feet. Budget is $800-1200.

Discuss.

stangman · Feb 1, 2012

imo, you can't go wrong with most offerings from respectable modern 1911 makers. For that price range I'd be looking at Colt, Springfield, & Kimber.

I have a plain jane Kimber Stainless II & it's my favorite handgun to shoot. However, I am not a fanboy for them, and call 'em like I see 'em. I've shot all 3 that I've recommended and it's difficult to tell major differences between them while shooting them, and all solid choices. Now if you up the dollar amount, my tune will change

D Durden · Feb 1, 2012

Once you get passed the entry level models, from all I've seen, a 1911 is a commodity item. When you start talking $800 to $1,200 for a 1911, eh, you're in the "pretty much all of these will work" group, especially if you're criteria is "will hit center mass at 20 feet". They should all pretty much shoot the same, feel the same, and all that jazz. Yeah, there will be some minor differences, but nothing drastic and, since basically they’re all the same gun, there should be no performance differences.

Depending on where you go online, you'll hear about everything you can imagine. Kimber has problems with MIM parts . . . Colt is too finicky . . . Sigs glow in the dark because all Sigs are made by the Hand of God (usually Sig fanboys type one handed . . . just saying).

I recommend getting the Sig for the obvious reason that . . . it's a Sig, and you'll be in good with two of the major fanboy bases: the 1911 crowd and the Sig crowd. Basically, since you have two legs, each side has one to hump all to themselves. The Glock people will leave you alone because Glock doesn’t make a 1911.

For what it’s worth, I have a Wilson 1911. I’m not a good enough shooter to really exploit the gun to the extreme. It’s a great 1911, one of my favorite guns I own, and I have no desire to ever own another one. LOL! Lisa has a Kimber. It shoots JUST LIKE . . . my 1911 . . . which shoots JUST LIKE . . . about every other 1911 worth a crap out there.

If you want to take “the path less travelled” . . . well, okay, it’s “the path less travelled 20 years ago, but it’s basically a 4 lane highway now”, you could get an entry level weapon and deck it out with aftermarket parts. When I was a “little boy”, people used to build Springfields back when they were the cheap brand. Norinco came along and became the darling, later. Last time I checked, the best platform gun for casual shooting was the Charles Daley. It’s pretty cheap AND, most importantly, a lot of the initial modifications like ambi-safety and all actually came with the gun. You could skip that and go right to things like barrel, sear, hammer, sights, and the other “this makes a real difference” hardware. Mods for a 1911 are so friggin’ cheap even from the quality vendors that it makes Mustangs look rather high dollar to mod. Any competent gunsmith can do the work for a kiss and a promise, and in the end you’ll have a 1911 that can most likely out-shoot you (or me). It will be a unique 1911 . . . just like the other couple of hundred thousand unique 1911’s out there.

Might I recommend a full-sized 1911? If you’re looking for a range/fun gun, the extra size is no biggie, and it opens up a few more aftermarket parts. If you wanted to shoot some competitions, the extra size is to your advantage, as well. If you’re worried about carrying it, honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it in the least. Buy a carry gun, instead, and use the 1911 for range and fun work.

Oh, you have a Fox? NICE! I like the “new” Mustangs, too, but I prefer my ’65. BTW, I carry a Glock.

stangman · Feb 1, 2012

phew, I had to turn my setting back to blue moon, just so I could read that novel

wythors · Feb 1, 2012

stangman said:
phew, I had to turn my setting back to blue moon, just so I could read that novel

You can actually highlight his novel and read it that way.

I'm still trying to figure out if I'm a fanboi or a leghumper for buying a 1911. Can someone help me out here?

stangman · Feb 1, 2012

I think he was referring to the Sig fanboi's, not so much 1911's.

I'd say you're neither. You've shot a 1911 before & liked it. Get what you like & shoot well & have fun.

D Durden · Feb 1, 2012

No, there are no 1911 Fanboy's.

The 1911 people are a friggin' cult for the most part. Fortunately, the cult is losing members. LOL!

stangman · Feb 1, 2012

Nevar!!!

wythors · Feb 1, 2012

BTW, I tried cruising gun forums for information, but I don't have near enough between my legs to make it there. Those boys throw around some SERIOUS sausage. They make Stangnet look like a bunch of kindergardens on the playground.

I've decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on the Sig 1911 Carry Stainless. I've got a buddy that deals guns and he's getting it for me for $850 out the door. I'll probably have it in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know what it's like then, if you're interested.

D Durden · Feb 1, 2012

You should enjoy that piece. I’m sure it will be a good one to shoot.

The 1911 “internet cult” are pretty . . . freakish . . . sometimes. Most of them are terrified because the days of the ONLY acceptable automatic on the market being a 1911 are long gone. What’s scaring them even more is that they can’t argue that design-x isn’t as good as the 1911 now as much as they’re arguing over whether the 1911 is up to par. And since they make great designs in .45 ACP other than the 1911, there’s not even the old argument of “I don’t care how good your 9mm is . . . it’s not a .45.” Most are afraid that they’re going to wake up one day and the mere fact that they carry their great grandfather’s WW1 sidearm isn’t enough to make them cool, anymore.

I used to go see “what’s the next best 1911 stuff” on those boards, but crap, right now my gun can outshoot me . . . what’s the point? I figure maybe 15% of those guys really do a lot of shooting and maybe half of those guys are any good at it. When I shot that USPSA competition this fall, one of the better competitors had a really great observation on the 1911. Basically, he said that they’ll be the standard competition gun indefinitely, BUT the better you make them for competition, the less 1911 they are. Then he said “and of course the first thing you do to make a 1911 really competitive is get rid of that damned .45 ACP round . . . and go with something good like a .38 Super”. LOL!

Kraw · Feb 6, 2012

I've been thinking about joining the 1911 cult too and decided on the Springer RO. I wanted a Sig since my dad is a Sig guy, but it seems to the external extractor is frowned upon

btw, I don't have one yet... I just bought an HK USP 45T back in Nov. and haven't even had the chance to fire it. I need to quit buying guns until I start shooting more!!!

wythors · Feb 6, 2012

I really thought I wanted a USP until I had a chance to handle one for a while. The double action trigger pull is just too darned long for my taste.

stangman · Feb 6, 2012

Kraw said:
I've been thinking about joining the 1911 cult too and decided on the Springer RO. I wanted a Sig since my dad is a Sig guy, but it seems to the external extractor is frowned upon

btw, I don't have one yet... I just bought an HK USP 45T back in Nov. and haven't even had the chance to fire it. I need to quit buying guns until I start shooting more!!!

The external extractors are frowned upon by the 1911 purist. However, they function just the same as the internal, as far as the job they do. If you need to justify it to yourself look at it this way: The Browning Hi-Power was Mr. Browning's "improved" design that came after the 1911 design & it had an external extractor. So take from that what you will.

jlangholzj · Feb 7, 2012

I'm really liking the 4" barrel with the shorter grip....commander barrel with the officer grip. The shorter grip only holds 7 rounds but hell...that should be great plenty.

springer and kimber both offer models like that, here's a few I'm looking at.

springfield loaded champion in O/D and black

this is also on an alloy frame weighing in at 30oz empty. The picture shown has crimson trace grips added to it as well as having the ambi safety removed to the standard single safety. I would also do that but keep the standard grips. This particular model is $1030 MSRP but I'll probably be able to get it for about $800 from a local dealer.

Next is the pro crimson carry

this is also an alloy frame but comes standard with the crimson trace grips. This i can get for $940 at my local shop, MSRP is $1170

I was also looking at the CDP models but those are a little more frilly that what i want....really the laser sight is more than i want anyway (ideally).

Just put in the paperwork for my permit monday and the'll be a gunshow on saturday! Pretty excited to go take a look at whats there.

stangman · Feb 7, 2012

I had the Ultra Crimson Carry & liked it. Only reason I got rid of it was to finance another project

D Durden · Feb 7, 2012

I guess my question when picking a 1911 to carry is what advantages does it offer over more modern designs?

jlangholzj · Feb 7, 2012

D Durden said:
I guess my question when picking a 1911 to carry is what advantages does it offer over more modern designs?

the only reason why i "chose" the 1911 is because it feels better to me than some other platforms. I don't really like the XDM and GLOCK trigger styles a whole lot because the safety is in the trigger. i LOVE shooting them, and they're great guns, but i just like the feel and balance of the 1911 more personally. I really liked the P230 when i shot it as well!!!! and am going to get that as a pocket gun sometime in the future for those "dressier" occasions.

wythors · Feb 7, 2012

D Durden said:
I guess my question when picking a 1911 to carry is what advantages does it offer over more modern designs?

For me, I like the feel and heft of the gun. I have yet to find a polymer-framed pistol that feels "right". I also prefer an SAO gun. The trigger pull on a double action pistol is too long for me. Try as I will, I can't shoot a Glock for . The angle of the grip is too raked for me. I end up shooting the ceiling.

jcgafford · Feb 7, 2012

wythors said:
For me, I like the feel and heft of the gun. I have yet to find a polymer-framed pistol that feels "right". I also prefer an SAO gun. The trigger pull on a double action pistol is too long for me. Try as I will, I can't shoot a Glock for ****. The angle of the grip is too raked for me. I end up shooting the ceiling.

Grip angle, trigger guard and nasty grips = Glock. No fancy carry guns for me yet but i have a Para 14-45 that just fit my hand better than anything i have ever picked up. Wilson combat springs and it feeds beautifully. Got it for a steal too.

D Durden · Feb 8, 2012

I don’t think much of anyone can knock the 1911 ergonomics or feel. It’s pretty much a standard. There are a few other guns out there that feel as good, but not many. No questions about it. The 1911 is one of THE best guns to shoot in the world. Hey, I love mine. It’s generally the first gun in the range bag when I pack up.

That being said, for daily carry, it’s a much harder sell. It’s heavy . . . REALLY heavy, and I’m borderline “fluffy”. If you carry it close with the wrong rig, the hammer is uncomfortable. Your magazine capacity is limited significantly in comparison to the size. And yeah, I know, statistics say that you’ll only need 2 or 3 rounds IF ANY, but statistics also say you’ll never need the gun at all so, we’re already against statistics by carrying the gun in the first place, right?

Then there’s the question of “C&L” v.s. hammer down. Regardless of which one you pick, if you have to draw quickly, there’s an extra step you have to take to be ready to fire. Can you get that EVERY time without fail? Basically, is there ZERO chance of you missing the safety OR pulling back the hammer? I can honestly say that I don’t trust myself to hit the safety perfectly every time. I’ve missed it at the range.

I understand about the trigger on the Glocks and other weapons. No way it’s even close to a GOOD 1911 trigger job or even a GOOD revolver trigger job. My custom 1911 brings a tear to my eye when I pull the trigger. THAT BEING SAID, when I shot the last USPSA competition, I shot it with a borrowed basically stock 9mm Glock. The sights were different. That’s it. The stock trigger was in place and it was the “medium” trigger i.e. the one it came with. In rapid and moving fire, I didn’t even notice it. When I asked the other competitive shooters there (who had Glocks), they just shrugged on Glock triggers. Most of them had the stock medium trigger. A few had the lighter ones (I have one on my G20). There were 3 or 4 who had the HEAVIER triggers because they felt that the trigger “broke” more cleanly . . . and a few other guys with medium triggers were trying the heavy triggers out during the breaks. So, sure, for range work, it makes a difference to have a crisp 3.5 pound SA trigger. For moving and grooving pistol competition, unless you were in the uber-high end levels, pretty much it was a non-issue. For carry, that translates into the trigger pull of a normal, modern handgun v.s. the 1911 to be a moot point. It’s ESPECIALLY a moot point if you compare weapons with similar price range and size.

Glock grips are hit or miss . . . no doubt, but the newer generation ones are better for some people, plus, eh, their grips can be modified. Me personally, I’m okay with them, and I have the biggest one they make. For what it’s worth, Lisa is a LITTLE lady, and while she doesn’t LIKE anything Glock, she can hammer my G20 without it hurting or bothering her. And she’s accurate with it. Possibly the funniest comment on Glock grips ever said was at a gun shop here about 3 years ago. I was inside, and a guy there was complaining about how awful the Glock grips are. Needless to say, he’s a 1911 guy. One of the techs at the shop told him that there were 2 or 3 companies who can rework the grips, take out some meat and reshape them for his hands. He said “why in the heck would I spend $500 on a gun only to have to spend 2 or 3 hundred more just to make it tolerable to shoot?” Okay, cool. The rest of the conversation revolved around all the modifications he’d made to his Kimber . . . because he wasn’t satisfied with the performance of his $1,200 gun right out of the box. LOL! It’s a common thing I see with the 1911 cult. They’ll completely nit pick every other gun out there the first half of the day, and the next half of the day will discuss the 20 or 30 mods they’ve made to their 1911 and how much difference they all make in the performance of the gun. LOL! And YEAH, there’s nothing stock about my 1911, either. John Browning probably wouldn’t recognize it.

To me, we’ve come to a time in gun technology where, for self-defense applications, the 1911 design has become so eclipsed that it’s probably more valuable to learn how to shoot the newer designs that it is to do our best to cover up the 1911’s shortcomings. When I first got my Tangfolio, I didn’t shoot it particularly well. I thought there was something wrong with it. I was really (quietly) pist at the gun and my decision to buy it. I took it to Florida and spent about 2 hours shooting it with my father in law. He corrected a few things that I was doing, and my groups went from random to “that’s what I’m talking about!”. Basically, I learned to shoot the gun. Now it’s no different from shooting my Glock or my 1911.

If you’re just a casual shooter, yeah, the 1911 is tough to beat. For someone who’s going to carry, though, and really shoot a great deal, it’s probably worth it to pick up something more modern and learn how it shoots. Modern designs have too many advantages not to take advantage of them.

Yeah, I know this is another one of my novels, but give it some thought, eh? I’m NOT downing 1911’s AT ALL, and I’m not a Glock fan boy. Substitute XD, Kahr, or Sig in there if you like. We’re blessed now to have LOTS of options . . . for a change.

That being said, I still don't understand the issue with the Glock trigger guard?

Let's talk 1911's.

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

stangman

D Durden

DEEP FAT FRY

stangman

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

stangman

D Durden

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stangman

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

D Durden

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Kraw

Nail On The Head El Moderatoro

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

stangman

jlangholzj

Mustang Master

stangman

D Durden

DEEP FAT FRY

jlangholzj

Mustang Master

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

jcgafford

D Durden

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Let's talk 1911's.

Get off my lawn!!!

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Get off my lawn!!!

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Get off my lawn!!!

DEEP FAT FRY

Nail On The Head El Moderatoro

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Mustang Master

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Mustang Master

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