lifters wont depress when adjusting valve.

Foxfan88

My Grandpa has great wood.
Sep 13, 2004
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Miami, Ok
i got my new pushrods i measured for and etc today. i went out and checked out one rocker to see it everything went together ok.

i set my pushrod in the lifter and plopped my rocker, hand tightened the poly lock until zero lash (couldnt turn pushrod by hand)

now every one of my lifters are fully pumped up, i went to set my preload and instead of lifter plunger depressing, it opened the valve. the lifters have been sitting in the engine for a while with cold oil in them and havent seemed to bleed out. and yes i am sure they are pumped up (the piston is against the retaining clip

i am guessing once i fire up the engine and everything starts moving fast and as the engine oil heats up the lifters will bleed down and take their new setting?

i was thinking once i adjusted all my valves, just the constant pressure of the valve spring pressing on the lifter may bleed it down, before i ever engine get the engine started.

but without the lifters depressing its holding my valves open rather than pushing the lifter down holding the valve open .020-.050" on the base circle. (or whatever i happen to set my preload at, going to try .020 first)

so will everything settle once things get moving and or the pressure of the springs on the lifters after a while?
 
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yes everything is together fine. here is the procedure i used.

i rotated the engine until the valve i was testing was on its base circle. i then sat my pushrod in the lifter and b/w the guideplate. i set the rocker on the pushrod and valve, ran the poly lock down by hand until zero lash, then proceeded to put the wrench on the poly to turn it and set the preload. now normally the lifter plunger would depress, instead the valve spring is opening, the oil is cold and isnt bleeding out. its 10w30 so its not really super thick.

tomorrow i guess it will try and adjust all the rockers and let them sit for a while and come back and see if the pressure from the valve spring will depress the lifter.

if not i will remove the lifters and use and arbor press and depress them manually by hand.
 
You're doing it wrong. If you tighten the lock nut down enough to make the valve open, that is too tight. You are bottoming out the lifter so it can't go down any further and you just keep on tightening the nut until the valve is opening? What's wrong with you? Your lifters aren't NOT bleeding down... they are fully collapsed.

Correct way...

1. Fill engine with oil.
2. Pull dizzy.
3. Put a socket on an extension and attach to a drill.
4. Spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters.
5. Run nut down on rocker by hand while turning push rod until you get zero lash, then turn nut 1/2 to 3/4 turn more and then tighten the lock.
6. Spin the oil pump shaft again to pump the lifters back up and do the next rocker. Repeat until all 16 rockers are set.
 
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You're doing it wrong. If you tighten the lock nut down enough to make the valve open, that is too tight. You are bottoming out the lifter so it can't go down any further and you just keep on tightening the nut until the valve is opening? What's wrong with you? Your lifters aren't NOT bleeding down... they are fully collapsed.

Correct way...

1. Fill engine with oil.
2. Pull dizzy.
3. Put a socket on an extension and attach to a drill.
4. Spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters.
5. Run nut down on rocker by hand while turning push rod until you get zero lash, then turn nut 1/2 to 3/4 turn more and then tighten the lock.
6. Spin the oil pump shaft again to pump the lifters back up and do the next rocker. Repeat until all 16 rockers are set.

Yep:flag: Thats what I do.
 
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You're doing it wrong. If you tighten the lock nut down enough to make the valve open, that is too tight. You are bottoming out the lifter so it can't go down any further and you just keep on tightening the nut until the valve is opening? What's wrong with you? Your lifters aren't NOT bleeding down... they are fully collapsed.

Correct way...

1. Fill engine with oil.
2. Pull dizzy.
3. Put a socket on an extension and attach to a drill.
4. Spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters.
5. Run nut down on rocker by hand while turning push rod until you get zero lash, then turn nut 1/2 to 3/4 turn more and then tighten the lock.
6. Spin the oil pump shaft again to pump the lifters back up and do the next rocker. Repeat until all 16 rockers are set.


the lifters are not collapsed at all. there is no movement at all from the piston in the lifter, the pistons is completely at the top against the retaining clip, and you cant move it at all.

this isnt really related but i took an old lifter to work today. it was stiff, and i was wanting to measure how far the piston moved in the lifter, the lifter was full it seemed like, the pistons was againt the retaining clip and you couldnt push it down at all. i stuck it in an arbor press and used a bolt or something and got some leverage and forced the pistons down and oil shot out the side of the lifter and the piston was free and it moved up and down about .100

the lifters in the engine seem the same way. the piston is all the way up against the little retaining clip and you cant push it down at all. i could be wrong but i am pretty sure they arent collapsed, but its kind of hard to imagine how they could still be full of oil and pumped up after weeks of sitting.
 
What size socket for the oil pump shaft? I'll be doing this soon so this is good info.

Don't you need to rotate the engine and get the cam on the bottom of the lobe for each rocker?
 
I've never done any valve train work so bare with me...


But i seem to remember something about doing it on compression or exhaust stroke...which is it or does it matter?


Sorry not trying to hijack but maybe this will help you too :shrug:
 
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Foxfan88... something doesn't sound right about the way you are explaining the lifters. A fully pumped up lifter shoud be able to be compressed easily by hand... you shouldn't need a press to do it. When you spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters, you should be able to push down on one of the push rods and compress that lifter by hand. That is why I recommended that you spin the oil pump shaft between adjusting each lifter... they can leak down in a matter of minutes. If yours are rock hard and can't be compressed by hand, then something is wrong with your lifters or they are collapsed and you just think they are pumped up. Warning: if you have collapsed lifters and you set the rockers with them like that, when you start the engine and they pump up, you will have valves hanging open and too much pressure set on the rockers. Take an old lifter and push rod and submerge the lifter in a bucket of oil and pump the top of it with the push rod by hand. This will pump up the lifter... you will see bubbles come out of it when you do this. This is recommended before putting in new "dry" lifters, but they should still be pumped up with a drill in the dizzy before adjusting each one. That way you know it's at it's maximum height before setting the rocker. I have never heard of lifters being so hard that they can't be compressed by hand. Like I said before, make sure they aren't collapsed and at the bottom of their travel and you just think they are pumped up and can't be compressed.
 
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You're doing it wrong. If you tighten the lock nut down enough to make the valve open, that is too tight. You are bottoming out the lifter so it can't go down any further and you just keep on tightening the nut until the valve is opening? What's wrong with you? Your lifters aren't NOT bleeding down... they are fully collapsed.

Correct way...

1. Fill engine with oil.
2. Pull dizzy.
3. Put a socket on an extension and attach to a drill.
4. Spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters.
5. Run nut down on rocker by hand while turning push rod until you get zero lash, then turn nut 1/2 to 3/4 turn more and then tighten the lock.
6. Spin the oil pump shaft again to pump the lifters back up and do the next rocker. Repeat until all 16 rockers are set.

Foxfan88... something doesn't sound right about the way you are explaining the lifters. A fully pumped up lifter shoud be able to be compressed easily by hand... you shouldn't need a press to do it. When you spin the oil pump shaft to pump up the lifters, you should be able to push down on one of the push rods and compress that lifter by hand. That is why I recommended that you spin the oil pump shaft between adjusting each lifter... they can leak down in a matter of minutes. If yours are rock hard and can't be compressed by hand, then something is wrong with your lifters or they are collapsed and you just think they are pumped up. Warning: if you have collapsed lifters and you set the rockers with them like that, when you start the engine and they pump up, you will have valves hanging open and too much pressure set on the rockers. Take an old lifter and push rod and submerge the lifter in a bucket of oil and pump the top of it with the push rod by hand. This will pump up the lifter... you will see bubbles come out of it when you do this. This is recommended before putting in new "dry" lifters, but they should still be pumped up with a drill in the dizzy before adjusting each one. That way you know it's at it's maximum height before setting the rocker. I have never heard of lifters being so hard that they can't be compressed by hand. Like I said before, make sure they aren't collapsed and at the bottom of their travel and you just think they are pumped up and can't be compressed.

WOW!!! Not only are you harsh, but you are SO full of :bs: :bs: :bs:

FoxFan, do not worry that the lifter plungers don't depress. I went through the same thing, where my valves were opening instead of the lifter plunger going down, called comp cams as well as summit's tech and they both said the same thing: THIS IS NORMAL!!!!!!! I have not had any complications with my engine either, and everything is quiet. Don't waste your time removing your dizzy and spinning the oil pump, such a waste!!!!

Just do the steps you've been doing of making sure the cylinder you're working on has both lifters on the base of the cam and tighten them how you have been doing, 1/2 to 3/4 turn after you get to zero lash.
 
i got an update lol.

last night i couldnt stop thinking about the lifters it was BUGGING the crap out of me for some reason.

so i woke up at 5:30 this morning, extra early went to the car and pulled each lifter out before i went to work. (engine is torn down and one head isnt even on car so it wasnt any big deal.)

before work started a got on the lathe checked in a small tube, drilled a hole slightly bigger than the lifter so the lifter would slide in and not have too much slack, then a found a piece of steel and rounded the end off similar to a pushrod.

took them over to the arbor press (hand level press no hydraulics) so i could get a good feel by hand and not hurt anything. put a lifter in and applied a steady pressure on the lifter piston and oil started coming the hole on the side, took a few pumps to get all of it out but i compressed all the lifters so now they are all empty and move freely by hand. ended up making a mess lol all 16 lifters combined hold a decent amount of oil. i also seemed to find some milkshake oil inside a few of them from when i blew a HG

there is a sping inside the lifters so it would have been impossible for the piston be down and me mistaking it for being up. they were all FULL and pumped up because i presse them all down by hand. and it took a little bit of force, once i bled them all down they press up and down by hand now. i'm sure it doesnt matter if they are empty or not now, they will pump back up once the engine is primed/started

turned out to be a learning expierence. thanks for the input guys
 
I had a 5.0 that did the same thing, lifters would not bleed down, engine cranked like no compression, So off came the intake, out came the propane torch, and i carefully heated the lifter valley area, and you could watch the lifters bleed down as they warmed up. Put intake back on, and she started right up, no problems. Has only happened to me once, as they usually bleed down by the time the rest of the engine is back together.
 
i got my new pushrods i measured for and etc today. i went out and checked out one rocker to see it everything went together ok.

i set my pushrod in the lifter and plopped my rocker, hand tightened the poly lock until zero lash (couldnt turn pushrod by hand)

now every one of my lifters are fully pumped up, i went to set my preload and instead of lifter plunger depressing, it opened the valve. the lifters have been sitting in the engine for a while with cold oil in them and havent seemed to bleed out. and yes i am sure they are pumped up (the piston is against the retaining clip

i am guessing once i fire up the engine and everything starts moving fast and as the engine oil heats up the lifters will bleed down and take their new setting?

i was thinking once i adjusted all my valves, just the constant pressure of the valve spring pressing on the lifter may bleed it down, before i ever engine get the engine started.

but without the lifters depressing its holding my valves open rather than pushing the lifter down holding the valve open .020-.050" on the base circle. (or whatever i happen to set my preload at, going to try .020 first)

so will everything settle once things get moving and or the pressure of the springs on the lifters after a while?

*** I had the same problem. And no, the valve train will not settle in. My issue was oil trapped under the plunger or somewhere in there, not in the "pump up " chamber but below that. I got a set of Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller lifters for my Extreme Energy 51-000-9 special grind hydraulic roller cam for my Pontiac 455. right out of the box, only three of the lifters had "spring action" with the cup. all the others were bound up solid for some reason.

So, I installed them with some assembly lube thinking the spring pressure from my valve would depress the plunger. Adjusting the valves could begin. As I removed the lash and went a half turn for pre-load, the valve started opening, I was like WTF. So after trying a few more, I stumbled on one of the lifters that had spring action so that one went normally, three more after that, same valve spring compression. again, WTF? So I did some research and found very little advice then I figured I would squeeze them to see what happens.

I used a block of wood with a V knotch to secure the roller, I used a short 1/4" drive socket on the plunger that sat neatly inside the retaining clip but not inside the cup to avoid damage and blocking the hole. I gently compressed the plunger with my small arbor press. steady light/medium pressure, light oil oozed out of the holes, probably assembly oil from the factory. This oil was trapped behind some bore and the plunger and squeezed out under pressure between the tight tolerance bore and plunger. As hard as I could depress by hand, that did not do the trick, it needed some mechanical advantage to achieve enough pressure to evacuate this trapped oil. I did this procedure on all 16, even the ones that had some spring action, had some trapped oil in the chamber. I made sure all 16 had full plunger travel, cleaned them again and reinstalled. the lash removal was easy to feel by twisting the push rod. one half turn on the rocker nut after that and no valve spring movement happened, just the plunger in the lifter. A vice or c-clamp would work just as well, I had the arbor press so that made it easier than fumbling to hold 3 things with 2 hands.