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List Basic Things To Know For Newb's

  • Thread starter Thread starter 2000xp8
  • Start date Start date Jan 12, 2015
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2000xp8

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#1
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #1
Seems so many threads pop up on the same topics many of which are delusions of grandeur so I figured we could start a list of thing you should know before you post.
In no particular order.

1. 500rwhp is the max the block will take, I don't care what you do to it, even that number is a little generous.
2. Do not add a cam to a car with stock heads it's a waste of time and money. No need to ask, you aren't going to come up a reason for us to agree to it.
3. Exceeding 500rwhp is friggin expensive. If you don't have 10-15,000 dollar set aside, don't bother asking us about it. I could go on and on about this topic, but bottom line is, few can or are willing to pay up for going past this number. And the ones that do, generally know what they are doing and they don't ask questions about it.
4. Stock fuel system will support more than the stock block with a good pump and 42lb injectors.
5. Suspension and brakes should be in order BEFORE you add a couple hundred hp.
6. Foxes are light, especially in the rear, they have rear drums no antilock, no TC. So 500rwhp is NOT the best idea for a daily drive car. Unless of course you like to crap your pants each time you drive it in the rain. I've gotten mine stuck in wet grass on level ground, so...
7. Do not ask about porting stock heads, it's a bad idea and not very cost effective
8. P heads are fine and all, but do not pay to port them, you will be at aluminum head money.
9. Do not put any injector other than 19's on a stock head NA engine, you don't need them nor do they add any power.
10. C&L sucks. So if you have a 73 or 76mm meter. Don't use it.
11. You get what you pay for.
12. Economize by using quality parts to begin with, I assure you, in the end you will come out ahead financially. This goes double for heads.
13. Removing weight is more expensive than adding power. Spend the money on Hp, not k members or lightweight parts that you don't need.
14. Don't remove your ac or rear seats, it's just dumb and it's not going to get you anything other than a car worth less. Same goes for the power steering.
15. Fix problems on your car before modding it.
16. Very few mods are outside the realm of what the stock computer can handle, you want to tune it go ahead, but don't use tuning to fix problems.
17. Explorer engines are dirt cheap. Rebuilding your 302 will certainly cost more than a JY explorer engine and probably be less reliable.
18. The internals on stock 302 put up with more than the block, so an expensive rotating assembly means little to nothing.
19. Build for what you have now. Planning for an unknown distant future is counterproductive in most instances.
20. 10 inch rear wheels will fit with the right offset, tires that wide are a different story, save the headaches, buy 9's.
21. Stock ford heads pretty much of any type are undersized for a 302. So none of them are good on 347's or 351 based engines.

Feel free to add to the list. These are some of the basics.
I put it the tech section, because I think it's more relevant there.
 
Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
Reactions: michaelgt, mikestang63, A5literMan and 1 other person

jrichker

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#2
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #2
Very good advice, well thought out and written. That needs to be a resource or sticky.

I hope you saved a copy with Microsoft Word or the WordPad application that comes as part of Windows. There will be occasions when you will see the need to post it again.

"15.Fix problems on your car before modding it." There needs to be a way to indelibly imprint that in the minds of some of the guys that post here on Stangnet. A foundation needs to be straight, true and level; the same goes for an engine build. Don't add things to an engine with problems, fix the problems first. Why? Because you will never know if it was the original problem with the engine or one caused by the modification. Compound problems tend to be complex problems that are difficult to solve.
 
Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
L

Lscam580

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#3
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #3
I would like to very welcomly disagree with your #1 quote. I have a 1992 ford 5.0 block out of a basic pickup and I'm dyno paper proven 618 rear wheel hp. The block Is currently bored 60 over (STOCK PRODUCTION BLOCK ) twin 80 mm turbos. Yes it will handle over 500 hp ,for how long with high boost not sure. But I've been driving mine to work and home every day spring to fall for 3 years with no issues and I haven't had to put 1 damn dime into it except oil changes and gas to keep her moving along. Some occasional Friday night test and tune night at the local drag strip to piss off the Chevy guys.
 

2000xp8

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#4
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #4
I've seen guys run above 500rwhp. But I think many here will agree it's not a great idea.
It's long been known they really won't put up with that much power if you drive it hard. There is always the exception to the rule.
And when you say high boost, that leads me to believe the 618rwhp is not how you drive it around all the time is it?

Since the list is for newbs, would you suggest to someone that doesn't have a spare engine or the means to fix it asap to run above 500rwhp?
 
Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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A5literMan

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#5
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #5
I think you pretty much nailed all the newbie "ideas". It would cut down on my post totals though. Lol
 

2000xp8

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#6
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A5literMan said:
I think you pretty much nailed all the newbie "ideas". It would cut down on my post totals though. Lol
Click to expand...

That's kinda why I did it. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

They may not want to make this post a sticky. Probably will eliminate half the posts around here.
 
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Lscam580

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#7
  • Jan 12, 2015
  • #7
I will agree with you on your post by saying (shouldnt). I do drive my car horrible though. I'm constantly running my car up to 6500 and shifting. I love the feel of the boost kicking in and powering through the torque curve. But if I were to do it all over again I'd build a 408 or a short stroke 393 Windsor. They are all about loving the high load torque . So yes don't put the money into building a Grenade when you can build a budget Windsor with phenomenal numbers. And one hell of a fun motor.
 

Noobz347

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#8
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That block is on borrowed time.



/the end
 
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Dave2000GT

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#9
  • Jan 13, 2015
  • #9
As a more general comment, I would say always keep in mind that co-incidences are exceedingly rare. I can't count the number of times when someone has changed the intake on a perfectly running car, then proceeded to spend 100's or 1000's of dollars replacing everything from the mass air flow to the fuel pump trying to get it running right.
 

srtthis

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#10
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Lscam580 said:
I would like to very welcomly disagree with your #1 quote. I have a 1992 ford 5.0 block out of a basic pickup and I'm dyno paper proven 618 rear wheel hp. The block Is currently bored 60 over (STOCK PRODUCTION BLOCK ) twin 80 mm turbos. Yes it will handle over 500 hp ,for how long with high boost not sure. But I've been driving mine to work and home every day spring to fall for 3 years with no issues and I haven't had to put 1 damn dime into it except oil changes and gas to keep her moving along. Some occasional Friday night test and tune night at the local drag strip to **** off the Chevy guys.
Click to expand...
your running twin 80's on a stock 8.2 deck based motor? why in the hell would you run such big turbos with a stock block motor? you cant be running much boost honestly
 

7991LXnSHO

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#11
  • Jan 13, 2015
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#7 I like my ported E-7 heads. I did not pay someone to do it though, and I will like alluminum heads better.

#5 Life is more interesting with stock brakes and more power. That is why one of my other classics has 4 wheel drums with anti lock. No matter how hard you stand on them, they will not lock up from over 35 mph! They are getting updated soon.
 

2000xp8

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7991LXnSHO said:
#7 I like my ported E-7 heads. I did not pay someone to do it though, and I will like alluminum heads better.
Click to expand...

Back in the day I could see a little reason to port them, but now with $200 gt4op heads it just makes no sense
 

Noobz347

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I don't even want to think about what it's like to port iron heads in a garage.

I lived and wrenched in that era but it was never something I wanted to try. Back then though, pretty much everyone (that I knew) sent it off to @tmoss for porting. He had a repeatable system that worked and you could find him on any Mustang forum.
 

mikestang63

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#14
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Noobz347 said:
I don't even want to think about what it's like to port iron heads in a garage.

I lived and wrenched in that era but it was never something I wanted to try. Back then though, pretty much everyone (that I knew) sent it off to @tmoss for porting. He had a repeatable system that worked and you could find him on any Mustang forum.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, back in the day when I was at Lincoln Tech we had use of all their machines including flow benches and porting equipment and was able to port several small and big block Ford heads. The big thing was to swap 351 heads n a 289/302 . After I blew that up I pulled a 428 out of a Lincoln and ported the heads and intake- a huge improvement over the stockers but I couldn't imagine doing them without those machines.
 
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Noobz347

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mikestang63 said:
Thankfully, back in the day when I was at Lincoln Tech we had use of all their machines including flow benches and porting equipment and was able to port several small and big block Ford heads. The big thing was to swap 351 heads n a 289/302 . After I blew that up I pulled a 428 out of a Lincoln and ported the heads and intake- a huge improvement over the stockers but I couldn't imagine doing them without those machines.
Click to expand...


I've 'massaged' a set of aluminum heads (they were Procomp so no big loss if I screwed them up) and that was pretty easy with a carbide cutting head. How much more of a PITA are the iron?
 

mikestang63

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#16
  • Jan 14, 2015
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Noobz347 said:
I've 'massaged' a set of aluminum heads (they were Procomp so no big loss if I screwed them up) and that was pretty easy with a carbide cutting head. How much more of a PITA are the iron?
Click to expand...

Other than chewing up the bits more and needing more massaging to smooth out the chambers.... It took more pressure and elbow grease.... the problem with the aluminum parts is it is soft and gums up the bits and cartridge rolls.
 

A5literMan

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#17
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mikestang63 said:
Other than chewing up the bits more and needing more massaging to smooth out the chambers.... It took more pressure and elbow grease.... the problem with the aluminum parts is it is soft and gums up the bits and cartridge rolls.
Click to expand...
Spraying wd40 on the bits etc helps but yeah they get gummy.
 
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Mustang5L5

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#18
  • Jan 16, 2015
  • #18
I picked up my gt40ps waaaaaay back when I was a poor college student.

That was 10 years ago. Still have yet to put them on.

Just realized I wasn't a poor college student anymore. I should sell them and actually build a respectable motor now...
 
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Boosted92LX

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#19
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I'll agree with most all of this except #17... a junk yard motor will be more reliable than rebuilding your 302. I've noticed a long trend with the op being dead set against rebuilding engines. I've been down both roads. You never ever ever ever know what you are getting with a jy motor. EVER. While most noobs may not be familiar with foxes, they may be familiar with overhauls, and I've said it a hundred times, a monkey could learn to do it. When you rebuild a short block, you know it's tight, wont burn oil, and won't let go when you floor it. I've been doing this literally since 1986. My first car had five junkyard engines in it before I said screw it and built a good one. NOW, that being said, I will agree that if you are making changes the best thing to do with the stock top end is to throw it all away and go with explorer or better parts. Performance wise, the factory mustang top end stuff is really poor. The bottom end, however, is every bit as good as explorer.
 
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Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
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#20
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And- I'm not trying to stir up trouble, really. Just make sure all of the info out there is solid. Ask @hoopty5.0 about his last experience buying a "good running motor". I tried buying one this last year for my son's car and it was junk too. Wound up having to go through it. Good thing I checked it, the bearings were shot. Bottom line is, you can't always fix junk with junk.
 
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