Little wiring help please

[SMOKEDYA]

I'm usually preaty good at wireing schamatic's,but for some reason this just isnt clicking today? Ok heres what i'm doing.I bought a fan controler from hayden. In the instructions it says to connect the yellow wire (ignition signal) to a positive 12volt connection that is controlled by ignition.To allow fan/fans to operate with the ignition off,connect yellow wire to a constant live (hot) lead.So is it me or is that not correct? To me it sounds like i need to connect it to a positive hot always,but then to a ignition source when the keys on? I'm confussed on this one?BUT can i connect it to the trigger (small) wire on the starter relay (thing on the fender)? Also another thing i got a dual speed dual fan set up,i'm only wireing this up to use the high speed speed. So i took the orange fused wire and connected it to the high speed side of the fans.In the instructions it says to connect the orange fused wire to the fan power wire.Ground the remaining fan motor wire. Do they mean to ground the black fan wire?Also there is a blue wire off the hayden kit. It says to do the following.Blue wire (power ourtput) used for dual fan installation.Attach the blue wire to a fuse holder and then to the second fan power wire.So since i'm ONLY using the high speed on the fans the way i have it wired (to the orange power output) i dont need to worry about the other (this blue one) correct?I'm 99% sure on my wireing so far it's just for some reason that yellow wire off the hayden kit (ignition signal) has me a little confused?peace







john

 

[Chuckman]

i'm assuming this is the temp-probe version controller? i just did this a few months ago with my taurus fan, and threw in a 75a relay, theres a link somewhere about how to do it, if i can find it.......

ah, heres a link to the article:FORDMUSCLE webmagazine: Junkyard Electric Fan

i used a switched source for the yellow wire from the controller (didnt want that big-ass fan draining my battery, lol), i just spliced into one of the wires going to the low-coolant sensor since it was so close. as far as the dual fan thing, yes, just cap off the blue wire so it doesnt hit anything and short out. fan motor grounding: dont ground the + side of the low speed, just the ground (black) wire off the fan.

oh, and in the link, the diode is a good idea.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

humm well i dont have a coolant level sencor? Mine is a 89. if it does i have no clue where it's at? What other wire could i use to connect the yellow wire into? I hope the bosch relay the previous owner was using will plug into the place of the 30AMP one that came in the kit!? peace






john

 

[Chuckman]

the coolant level sensor is on top of the stock overflow bottle, its actually the whole "cap" part of it, and there should be a two-wire connector to it. you dont really need that one, i just gave it as an example of what i did because of where it was (and im not using it anymore anyway, had to use a different bottle system). any 12v switched source will work. i know the coil is close as well, and most of the sensors will have power lead too, i just used a tap-in connector since its just a sense wire for the relay.

the big relay wont "plug in" anywhere, youll need a few terminals to wire it in. i can try to take some pics of how i did it tomorrow if you need me to, its not the "neatest" around, but it works (at least when the rest of the car is working anyway).

 

[HISSIN50]

You're probably going to be going through 30 amp relays pretty often. That's why John had the 75 amp relay (that was done per my suggestion).

I'd have used a dedicated screw-in temp switch and wired up the 75 amp relay with your own harness.

Is any of the wiring still connected for the 75 amp relay? You might find that on the 75 amp relay, terminal 30 has fused battery power (be very sure you confirm it is of proper gauge and fused appropriately), 87 goes to the fan, 86 goes to switched (ignition power) and 85 received switched ground from the controller.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

You're probably going to be going through 30 amp relays pretty often. That's why John had the 75 amp relay (that was done per my suggestion).

I'd have used a dedicated screw-in temp switch and wired up the 75 amp relay with your own harness.

Is any of the wiring still connected for the 75 amp relay? You might find that on the 75 amp relay, terminal 30 has fused battery power (be very sure you confirm it is of proper gauge and fused appropriately), 87 goes to the fan, 86 goes to switched (ignition power) and 85 received switched ground from the controller.

so i could take the wires comming off this relay (70AMP)

and just plug them into this relays holder and everything is good right?

peace












john

 

[SMOKEDYA]

all the wires off the 70 amp relay are 10ga so there good. peace










john

 

[HISSIN50]

so i could take the wires comming off this relay (70AMP)

and just plug them into this relays holder and everything is good right?

I have no idea how that Tyco relay is wired - you'd have to trace and test the wires to see what they are and where they go.

Going from a 70 amp relay to a 30 amp relay is kind of a step backwards. If you need to use the small relay, I'd use the small relay as a slave to drive the big relay.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

I have no idea how that Tyco relay is wired - you'd have to trace and test the wires to see what they are and where they go.

Going from a 70 amp relay to a 30 amp relay is kind of a step backwards. If you need to use the small relay, I'd use the small relay as a slave to drive the big relay.

no no no. what i'm saying is the 30 amp relay is what came with the hayden kit. the 70amp (tyco) is what was in the car that john wired in for the old fan.The 70amp relay is no longer wired to nothing but i did leave the wires hooked to it as you can partialy see in the pic.What i'm saying is, i'll take the 70 amp relay put terminals on the other end of the wires and just plug it into the hayden relay holder in place of the 30amp one,and not even use the 30 amp relay.If you look at the 2 relays they are both the same schamatics wise just obviously one is more amps.So thats why i think if i terminate the wires comming off the 70 amp one and just plug it into the haydne holder all will be good. peace








john

 

[HISSIN50]

no no no. what i'm saying is the 30 amp relay is what came with the hayden kit. the 70amp (tyco) is what was in the car that john wired in for the old fan.The 70amp relay is no longer wired to nothing but i did leave the wires hooked to it as you can partialy see in the pic.What i'm saying is, i'll take the 70 amp relay put terminals on the other end of the wires and just plug it into the hayden relay holder in place of the 30amp one,and not even use the 30 amp relay.If you look at the 2 relays they are both the same schamatics wise just obviously one is more amps.So thats why i think if i terminate the wires comming off the 70 amp one and just plug it into the haydne holder all will be good.

I gotcha now. That should be ok.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

So to wire in this dam yellow wire all i could do is put a volt metter on a wire and see if it has current,then try the same wire with the key on and see. If it does with the key on but not when the key is off then it's cool right? BTW what would the purpose be of this yellow wire? peace





john

 

[89GT331]

Looking at the relay pins 85 and 86 are attached to the coil which is also protect with a diode from what the diagram says and pins 87 and 30 are naturally open. When this coil is energized it will close the contacts between pins 87 and 30..closing the circuit. So you need to bring a constant hot to pin 87 or 30 (not both) then carry a wire from pin you didnt use (use 30 if you brought power into 87 or use 87 if you brought power into 30) directly to the fans hot wire. Make sure to ground the fans motor. Pins 85 and 86 are attached to the relays coil. One side of the coil is a ground (neg -) the other side is the hot (pos +). On your diagram I cant tell if there is a dedicated hot and neg. I assume it is probably marked on the base. You will of course ground one side and the other side will have a switched hot coming to it. You can either attached to standard toggle you control or you can install a core temp switch in the radiator. I would recommend a adjustable temp switch that way the fan isnt running when you dont need it and keeping your battery better charged. Hope you upgraded the alternator.

 

[87GT Drop Top]

So to wire in this dam yellow wire all i could do is put a volt metter on a wire and see if it has current,then try the same wire with the key on and see. If it does with the key on but not when the key is off then it's cool right? BTW what would the purpose be of this yellow wire? peace





john

Yes.

The purpose is it triggers the relay. If you wire it to a constant 12V the fan will run when the car is off. If you wire it to where there is only power with the key on it will only run when the key is in the on position.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

well heres what i came up with today. I ran the yellow wire to a hot off my wiper motor that is hot only when the key is on.I ran the + off the hayden controller to my stater relay (thing on fender) I then took the wires off the 70 AMP relay and connected them to the matching plugs on the hayden controller IE pin 30 from haden relay to pin 30 70 amp relay and so on so forth.Everything was good and the fans came on,till all of a sudden the dam thing started smoking like a mad man! Any ideas? All i can think is i mis connected one of the wires wrong from the 70 amp relay to where the hayden relay was plugged in?Is it ok to ground the hayden controller and the 70amp relay and the fans all 3 in one spot?Is a chassis ground ok,or should they go to the battery?As far as i know the fans still work. And i checked the fuse on the fans+ side on the hayden controller and it didnt blow.I'll get under there monday and double check my wireing?But till then any ideas?Also all i gotta do is power the key on and give it a few seconds and it starts smoking like a mad biotch like i said!peace











john

 

[HISSIN50]

I would not use 30 and 87 on the Hayden controller relay's socket (receptacle, where the relay plugs into).

Instead of using a jumper from those:

on your 70 amp relay, run an 8 AWG wire from terminal 30, through a fuse, and to the starter solenoid.

Run an 8 AWG wire from the 70 amp relay's terminal 87 to the positive fan motor terminal.

When done like this, your 70 amp relay is receiving and sending power for the fan directly from the battery (via the starter solenoid). The controller probably has its own power wires and those wires might not be rated for the draw of a Mark VIII fan. This might be where the smoke is coming from.

Using a common ground is fine.

 

[SMOKEDYA]

ok i'll try this on monday to see if it works. thanks peace




john

 

[SMOKEDYA]

I would not use 30 and 87 on the Hayden controller relay's socket (receptacle, where the relay plugs into).

Instead of using a jumper from those:

on your 70 amp relay, run an 8 AWG wire from terminal 30, through a fuse, and to the starter solenoid.

Run an 8 AWG wire from the 70 amp relay's terminal 87 to the positive fan motor terminal.

When done like this, your 70 amp relay is receiving and sending power for the fan directly from the battery (via the starter solenoid). The controller probably has its own power wires and those wires might not be rated for the draw of a Mark VIII fan. This might be where the smoke is coming from.

Using a common ground is fine.

are you saying jump pin 30 to 87? leave the relay plugged into the hayden controller but run a 8 ga inline fuse to the stater relay?the lead going from the fans already has a inline fuse.now that you say this if i remember right the controller + wire is like a 12? ALL the wires off the relay i'm using are either 8 or 10? but i beleive they are 10ga.I'll post a pic here in a sec so you can see the wireing and hopefull determine the ga. but like i said the relay wires are all 10 ga. peace











john

 

[SMOKEDYA]

HISSIN50 i just went and looked at the wireing and this is what i seen. the YELLOW WIRE is the one that was smoking! It is almost burnt in 1/2 could it be that it's drawing to much of a current? or is the wiper motor not the best place for it?Or both? It's a preaty small gauge wire. All the wireing is sealed into the hayden controller so theres no way to get it out. I'm thinking it's drawing to much current witch in return is why it was hot/burning. SO what now?Heres some pics:

peace












john

 

[SMOKEDYA]

The inline fuse in the last pics is going to the + for the fans from the controller,and is i think a 10 ga wire. Thats what came with the hayden controller.All the wires on the 70 amp relay are 10 ga. peace







john

 

[ddonaca351]

Hey John,

*made in china*... well there's your problem. LOL

I wouldn't run any of the power wires through the 30a fuse holder. The holder was probably designed with a 30a max load in mind... not a 70a.

Run the load wires directly to your tyco relay and you should be fine (pins 30 and 87). They are the switched power for the fans and they carry all the current.

Also 10ga is kinda on the line for 70a, so keep an eye on it... make sure you're using a good multistrand wire (lotts of little tiny strands can cary more current safely than the same gauge wire, with only a few big strands... the trons actually move over the surface of the wires strands, not "through" them as is commonly thought)

The little signal leads that energize the coil shouldn't be carrying any kind of current to speak of, so they should be fine (pins 85 and 86)

D


EDIT: Also another way to ease the load would be to (and I know you wont like this... lol) wire in two controllers and relays so that each fan has its own circuit. Then set the temp sensors to come on about 5 degress apart so one fan is already up to speed when the other one kicks on. (they only draw max current for a few seconds, as they are spinning up to speed. Once they're up and running, they probably only draw 10-15a for a constand load)