I am going to be installing some BBK ceramic 1-5/8 longtubes this weekend with the o/r H. I ordered felpro gaskets and locking bolts as well as some o2 extenders and some new motor mounts. I was hoping that the motormounts would take care of any clearance issuses i.e. steering, etc. Am I correct or will the steering arm still be a problem. What else would you recommend having before I start?
Longtube Install This weekend
- Thread starter JC 25TH
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I would assume that the headers were not built to interfere with the steering, it would be awefully stupid to build a product that doesn't work from the factory. I would suggest having a jack with some wood to jack up the motor to get out the mounts, and maybe undoing the transmission crossmember to get more movement. oh and a lot of patience!
You should prolly tell what kind of mounts you got. I dont think it will matter very much though. I would be oiling up the steering shaft bolts with some penetrant, mine were pretty tight and rusty. I tapped the six point boxed end with a hammer and they came loose though. I dont have LT's, but I have installed them in several cars. They can be frustrating to put in, but are worth it. Think about shielding your starter from the heat, or getting a mini-starter if you dont have one. If they flat out dont clear something, I would send them back and look to a different manufacturer. I would not pay for ceramic and mess it up bending tubes for clearance.
You are on the right track, you have mounts cause you know they are coming loose to make room. Good luck .
Read the similar threads at the bottom of the page. May be some hints there.
You are on the right track, you have mounts cause you know they are coming loose to make room. Good luck .
Read the similar threads at the bottom of the page. May be some hints there.
Notchbck93
New Member
Same setup as mine. See sig below.
It's not really that difficult to install the BBK LT's. Install the headers first and then the H pipe. Removing all the old parts I found the hard part. The bolts that hold the stock H with the stock headers can be a pain. Be shure to soak them down with some PB blaster or some type of penetrating oil, and make shure you can get some leverage. A good ratchet and extentions set would help, and a swivle is a real plus. You will have to jack up the engine so be sure no wires or vaccume lines get pinched. The steering shaft does not need to be removed but unbolted from the rack and moved to the side, this is the easier way. Once you do it, you'll be glas you did once you fire it up. Good luck!
It's not really that difficult to install the BBK LT's. Install the headers first and then the H pipe. Removing all the old parts I found the hard part. The bolts that hold the stock H with the stock headers can be a pain. Be shure to soak them down with some PB blaster or some type of penetrating oil, and make shure you can get some leverage. A good ratchet and extentions set would help, and a swivle is a real plus. You will have to jack up the engine so be sure no wires or vaccume lines get pinched. The steering shaft does not need to be removed but unbolted from the rack and moved to the side, this is the easier way. Once you do it, you'll be glas you did once you fire it up. Good luck!
JC, im getting those headers here real soon and was wondering if you could PM me about how they work and what not when you have the install complete. you know, performance, sound, installation/tips, whatver you can tell me would help.
thanks
thanks
My car is a '90 (25th Anniversary). I just asked about the steering because I did hear of some people having trouble with it, and just figured that old, sagging motor mounts were the cause. I purchased the prothane mounts from summit. I am not too worried about the stock header to h-pipe bolts because i have swapped the stock one with a gutted cat pipe about 3 times in the past 2 months and took it off about 4 weeks ago when I put my tremec in. I was gonna get an engine hoist to hold the engine up, because i don't feel comfortable just using a hydraulic floor jack to hold up the motor especially with the trans crossmember unbolted. I will post how the install goes. It will be going in this saturday. Thanks for your help and responses.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Just a reminder - if the hoist you're using is hydraulic - having the engine held from above by a "jack" is no different than supporting one from below by a jack. Previous posters comments about using lumber or jack stands (in addition to hoist if it's hydraulic) to hold the engine up while you're working around/under it are the safe way to go. You don't really know how alive you are until you've had 6 or 7 hundred pounds come down on your hand or arm -- or worse yet, your head.
As the other poster said - patience. Lots of it - order the Sam's-size jar of patience before you start. To Jerry's point, if they don't fit and clear everything - send them back. That's where you'll really need the patience - cause it means everything has to go back like it was (w/new engine mounts) until you get a set that fit. Quality control on headers in general is pretty spotty. There are so many small dimensional variations car to car, and header to header, and the clearances on long tubes are so tight, that sometimes, they zig where your car zags and they just don't fit. Don't pay for ceramic and then bang 'em up to get 'em on. For that reason, I always order stainless or bare - test fit them, do any banging for clearance; learn the install tricks. Crank them up to be sure they seal. Then remove them and send them off for coating - and, yes, do it all over again when they return from the coaters. Patience.
As the other poster said - patience. Lots of it - order the Sam's-size jar of patience before you start. To Jerry's point, if they don't fit and clear everything - send them back. That's where you'll really need the patience - cause it means everything has to go back like it was (w/new engine mounts) until you get a set that fit. Quality control on headers in general is pretty spotty. There are so many small dimensional variations car to car, and header to header, and the clearances on long tubes are so tight, that sometimes, they zig where your car zags and they just don't fit. Don't pay for ceramic and then bang 'em up to get 'em on. For that reason, I always order stainless or bare - test fit them, do any banging for clearance; learn the install tricks. Crank them up to be sure they seal. Then remove them and send them off for coating - and, yes, do it all over again when they return from the coaters. Patience.
rd
Founding Member
JC 25TH said:
It will be time consuming at best. Done 2 cars, and you will most likely need to pull the starter completely out, as well as jack the motor. If you remove the pinch bolt at the rag joint and the bolt near the firewall, the steering intermediate shaft is usually easy to get out and in. My LT's (Cyclone) have a removable section that goes over the shaft so it is a specific sequence. I had to remove the trans crossmember to lower the trans and allow the engine to go higher also. And then my slightly worn 1980 mounts sagged and let the steering hit a tube, so I had to shim the motor with washers. Speedo cable had to be tied back out of the way. But the headers were free!
I did hate the few scratches I put in the ceramic.
Notchbck93
New Member
oh ya
you will want to get the car a good foot off of the ground , front and rear stands. I believe the passenger side goes in through the bottom. I could be wrong, its been so long but it does tell on the bbk instructions. Be sure to jack the engine all the way up so you can rock it from side to side. Oh ya , those factory gaskets, throw them out before you even install them. I have gone through two factory sets of BBK gaskets. They dry out and break apart. The header quality is good though, just ditch those gaskets! 2 times to U.S. 41 and both times I have come home with blown gaskets.
you will want to get the car a good foot off of the ground , front and rear stands. I believe the passenger side goes in through the bottom. I could be wrong, its been so long but it does tell on the bbk instructions. Be sure to jack the engine all the way up so you can rock it from side to side. Oh ya , those factory gaskets, throw them out before you even install them. I have gone through two factory sets of BBK gaskets. They dry out and break apart. The header quality is good though, just ditch those gaskets! 2 times to U.S. 41 and both times I have come home with blown gaskets.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
No question lifting from above gives you more room. Safety rule -- never, ever, trust your safety to a hydraulic jack only. They're fine for lifting with -- but once you've gotten whatever you're lifting to the height you want it at, put something solid under it that can't give way. You should be able to wedge wood between the oil pan and the cross member -- that won't interfere with your space under the car. Jacks of all types give way all the time with disastrous results. Just a month ago I had a buddy in Charlotte told me his teenage son's best friend's dad was killed when a hydraulic jack gave way and the car fell on him. And he didn't die quickly. His son had to watch/hear him suffocate to death as he couldn't get the car back off of him. Not purposefully trying to frighten you - but don't trust a hydraulic. Given what you're doing, the more likely injury in the event of jack failure would be getting a hand or arm caught between a rock and hard place -- but you don't want that either.
Well, I got the BBK longtubes in yesterday. It was long an tedious, but for the results it is definitely worth it. I am a little sore today, but very happy with the results. The quality and fit of the pipes are great. I went with the ceramic finish, and it really stands out in my engine bay and underneath the car. No problem with the O2s, I bought the extenders and then used wire ties to keep them out of the way. I also opted to put new polyeurathane motor mounts in while they were accessible, and WOW what a difference. They just look more substantial compared to the flimsy stock rubber. My whole engine sits up higher in the engine compartment and therefor tuck the headers up even closer to the floor. There aren't going to be any clearance issues with them. It is so high, it looks like my hood will barely shut (I haven't shut the hood yet). I ran into a little snag putting my o/r h-pipe on, but I think that was just because of the tremec transmission and the exhaust hanger sits a little further back then a regular T-5. I had to cut the hangers off of the h-pipe, but I will weld them on where they need to be. I am not sure what series flowmaster the previous owner put on, but they are still quiet with the longtubes and o/r H. It sounds just like it sounded when I had my gutted stock pipe on there, so I was a little disappointed. I am going to run up to Mustangs Unlimited when they open up today and pick up the MAC system. I think the hardest parts were reconnecting the steering linkage (because of the tight space), figuring how the passenger side header was gonna drop in (you have to hold it at a certain angle and then turn it, and getting the top starter bolt back in when everything is in place (it is a bitch..I would recommend maybe putting the starter back in when things are still loose). The car is still in the air awaiting the cat-back system, but I will update the post and let you know how the car feels.
Glad you got them in. I replaced the stock headers and stock H pipe with them and noticed a big difference in sound at all levels. At idle it sounded like it had a really mild cam but not any louder, at WOT especailly over 4Krpm's it screams, sounds good cruising, but not much louder. I have 2ch delta flow flowmasters, btw.
Your motor sitting too high? maby you didn't get the motor set all the way down in the K frame. Mine sits a little higher than stock, but mine weren't blown completly when I replaced them.
Your motor sitting too high? maby you didn't get the motor set all the way down in the K frame. Mine sits a little higher than stock, but mine weren't blown completly when I replaced them.
