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Lower Control Arm/bushings Concern?

  • Thread starter Thread starter horseballz
  • Start date Start date Jul 27, 2012
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horseballz

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2009
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Las Vegas, NV
Jul 27, 2012
#1
  • Jul 27, 2012
  • #1
Hey All,
This may get long winded, as the issue is a bit difficult to explain. I am hoping for comments/thoughts to either confirm or dispute my concerns/fears and my intended solutions on my 68 Coupe. Pics first:

Right side not too bad:


Driver side not so good:


The problem, as I see it, starts with the LCA bushings being "pressed" into place. As the pics show, the control arms have moved/slid forward on the outer bushing sleeves, sometime after installation, with the driver side unit actually having the front, rolled edge of the arm make contact with the channel on the frame. This bushing is actually a loose enough fit to allow me to "slide/move" with a pry bar, the arm rearward and forward on the bushing sleeve. It is snug, but not tight. Another compounding factor, as I see it, is that I installed a camber cam eliminator/lock out kit. These kits do not have any type of shoulder or stop on the bolts to limit the amount that the frame channel gets squeezed together, unlike the OEM cam bolt/washer combination that will only tighten so far and then stop. It seems to me that if these bolts are tightened too far, they will squeeze this channel enough to lock the inner sleeve of the bushing, thus only allowing rotational movement by the flexing of the rubber bushing or the outer sleeve spinning in the LCA. I guess one question is, where is the movement intended,
A>The non-locked inner bushing spinning on the bolt
or,
B>The rubber bushing spinning/flexing on the locked inner sleeve?
In my situation, I have the option of going either way, as you can see in the right side pic that I have a crossmember that locks the 2 LCA bolts together and that each bolt has 2 nuts, 1 tightening onto the frame channel (also acting as a spacer between the crossmember and the frame channel) and the second nut holding/locking the crossmember to the other nut and thus the frame channel and also becomes a jamb nut. I realize there are many options, such as rollerized LCAs, etc, that would make this whole discussion moot, but I don't want to go that way.

My intended solutions:
1>Remove LCAs
2>Center the bushings in the LCAs
3>Use 2-3 tack welds to lock bushings into position (quick-small tacks to avoid burning up the rubber)
4> Re-assemble and adjust the tension on the channels/inner bushings as per suggestions, hopefully received here, as to whether the inner bushing should be locked tight or rotating on the bolt.
As always, I am eager for and appreciative of any and all comments, thoughts and/or observations.
Thanx,
Gene
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Jul 27, 2012
#2
  • Jul 27, 2012
  • #2
i always tack the bushing in place i have seen a lot of them slip out, i believe the sleeve is suposed to pinch and the bushing flex doesnt seem right but that is how the rear leafs work as well, i know if the bolts are not loose first and the car setting on its own weight and then tightend the car will not settle right and there will be a constant load on the bushings, if you do tack them cool them as fast as possible so it doesnt burn the rubber
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
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Jul 27, 2012
#3
  • Jul 27, 2012
  • #3
your idea is a good one, just remember to control your heat as much as possible, you dont want to damage the rubber bushing. a better option though would be to convert to a spherical bearing at that point on the lower control arm. i believe both dazecars and operntracker sell kits to do that very thing. and while you have the arm out, you may as well reenforce the arm as well by closing in the bottom of the arm. again dazecars and opentracker can help with that.

what switching to a spherical bearing does for you is eliminate the slop in the bushing for more consistency, and gives you longer wear than a bushing does, as well as being easily rebuildable.
 

horseballz

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2009
824
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Las Vegas, NV
Jul 27, 2012
#4
  • Jul 27, 2012
  • #4
Thanks Guys,
I had a very nice and informative 20 minute conversation today with John from Opentracker, about my planned repairs and plusses/minuses of most of the different options available. He is a WAY COOL GUY and not afraid to talk about others' products. What you guys said is identical to and total confirmation of what he thought and I had assumed. When I make assumptions, and see more than one possible option of what the truth is, I like to have the actual facts before starting /going off half cocked on a project. Off I go, with tools in hand!
Thanks Again,
Gene
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
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#5
  • Jul 28, 2012
  • #5
this is one of a pair of lower controll arms i was going to use on my 69 ,but i am thinking about a TCP unit now ,i plated the bottoms with 1/8 plate steel ,these should hold up as well as any tube arm this will stop any twisting or flexing ,i did these about a year ago ,dont know if you can see it in the pics but the bushings are already cracking i didnt tack them in place yet so i think i will change them with polly bushings and save them for somthing else
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
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#6
  • Jul 28, 2012
  • #6
gene if you havnt already removed the controll arm yet you may be able to pry it back in place and weld it without removing it ,if you dont mind welding over head
an air blower nozel will cool the welds quickly
 

horseballz

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2009
824
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Las Vegas, NV
Jul 28, 2012
#7
  • Jul 28, 2012
  • #7
Thanks, done and dunner. Both arms out, tacked and back in in less than an hour. Gotta love a car that's already been apart recently, in a 6% humidity environment and every fastener ALWAYS gets a dot of anti seize. Zip, bam, boom, crackle, bang! All I got left to do is check/tweak my alignment.
Thanx All,
Gene
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Jul 28, 2012
#8
  • Jul 28, 2012
  • #8
cool ,you should open a shop, like quicky lube call it quick Gene`s, fastest wrench in Nevada
 

Couped Up

Member
Feb 3, 2010
92
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Monroe, Washington
Jul 28, 2012
#9
  • Jul 28, 2012
  • #9
Glad to hear you got your "Quick Fix" done. I'm with Rbohm on the spherical bearings, and it doesn't hurt to have a reinforced LCA as well. Here's a pic that shows the Spherical bearing, which also acts as a bushing.....

 

horse sence

15 Year Member
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#10
  • Jul 29, 2012
  • #10
Couped Up said:
Glad to hear you got your "Quick Fix" done. I'm with Rbohm on the spherical bearings, and it doesn't hurt to have a reinforced LCA as well. Here's a pic that shows the Spherical bearing, which also acts as a bushing.....

Click to expand...
can the bushings be purchased seperatly and were? already have the boxed LCA
 
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67rcks

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Jul 30, 2012
#11
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #11
these reinforced arms are IMO totally useless on a street car
spend your money wisely on meaningful mods (subframe connectors, traction bars, no-wobble steering, disc brakes)
 

Couped Up

Member
Feb 3, 2010
92
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Monroe, Washington
Jul 30, 2012
#12
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #12
horse sence said:
can the bushings be purchased seperatly and were? already have the boxed LCA
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but I'll bet you give G.W. a call, and they'll sell you some. I've had great success in obtaining other service parts from them in the past! Definitely worth a phone call...

Toll Free 1-877-470-2975
 

horseballz

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2009
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Las Vegas, NV
Jul 30, 2012
#13
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #13
I don't truly agree with 67rcks' statement:

"these reinforced arms are IMO totally useless on a street car"

but will admit that I think the boxed arms are a bit overkill on a daily driver. They certainly don't hurt anything, other than adding a little unsprung weight. On the other hand, the spherical bearings are a great upgrade.
Just My $.02,
Gene
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Jul 30, 2012
#14
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #14
yeah i was planning a little road racing the uppers were reinforsed as well
 

rbohm

Founding Member
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Jul 30, 2012
#15
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #15
67rcks said:
these reinforced arms are IMO totally useless on a street car
spend your money wisely on meaningful mods (subframe connectors, traction bars, no-wobble steering, disc brakes)
Click to expand...

so you think that boxing in a flexible lower control arm is useless? it actually does do some good even on the street.

as to where to buy the spherical bearings;

http://opentrackerracingproducts.com/diylowerarm/
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Wile Coyote's stunt double
Jul 30, 2012
#16
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #16
67rcks said:
these reinforced arms are IMO totally useless on a street car
spend your money wisely on meaningful mods (subframe connectors, traction bars, no-wobble steering, disc brakes)
Click to expand...
actualy the cost was practicly nothing for me as i have plenty of scrap metal laying around and any reinforcement has to be an upgrade especialy on the roads around here, is a globle west up grade or tcp kit money spent un wisly for a street car ?
 

Couped Up

Member
Feb 3, 2010
92
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Monroe, Washington
Jul 30, 2012
#17
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #17
67rcks; What type of "Traction Bars" do you recommend?
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
12,194
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233
Wile Coyote's stunt double
Jul 30, 2012
#18
  • Jul 30, 2012
  • #18
in high school i had a 69 scj it had these traction bars that worked realy well
i have been trying to find another set and cant,not enven at the swapmeets they were two bars from the rearend had the pads made to them ,then from the front of the leafs it had one bar that came between the the two bars and bolted at the rear by the pads you could bolt the front bar so they were solid or run them unbolted ,i always thought they were lakewood, a buddy with a 68 camarro had the same set chromed
they worked great on the camarro as well any one know who made them? i would realy like to find another set
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
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Jul 31, 2012
#19
  • Jul 31, 2012
  • #19
Couped Up said:
67rcks; What type of "Traction Bars" do you recommend?
Click to expand...

i recommend either the shelby style under ride traction bars, or the similar design caltracs. dazecars and opentracker both can help with those.
 

Couped Up

Member
Feb 3, 2010
92
4
8
Monroe, Washington
Aug 1, 2012
#20
  • Aug 1, 2012
  • #20
What do you think about the Shelby style with spring rods, instead of the fixed?
 
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