Lowered Street Foxbody...torque Arm Yes Or No?

[killer5.0]

I have MM front coilovers...PH bar, SFC etc...i want to lower the car a little more (im at 25" to fender now) and upgrade to a 10.5" wheel (currently 10")...ive had the hd torque arm in the box for a couple years and was planning to install it and go to ridetech airstruts so i can go lower and higher at will but im concerned about the "spring" rate on the airbags since MM specifies certain torque arm spring rates etc...and bc the torque arm affects the body roll they say 9.5" wheel is the widest you can run which wont allow me to run the wheels i want.

Wondering what my best performing setup is for what i want to do which is basically cruise and aggressive street driving...

 

[95BlueStallion]

Sounds like you already know its not ideal for what you want. I'd go forth with your air ride and wheel selection, and just get a good set of upper and lower control arms with your PHB. Selling the TA should net you the funds for new uppers, assuming you already have a good set of lowers.

 

[FastDriver]

Umm... I'm interested. My '93 has an MM Torque Arm and 18x10 wheels with a 295/35/18. Runs perfectly fine. I believe the inner fender was "massaged" for fitment, though the TA doesn't seem to be in the way.

 

[cleanLX]

I'm no suspension expert, but, I though running a panhard bar and upper arms was a recipe for bind... ??
Works in my solid axle jeep because the upper arms are not "triangulated".
Learn me.

 

[killer5.0]

These are the reasons i ask...MM says nothing over a 9.5 will fit right bc of body roll (it changes when uppers are removed for the torque arm) yet FastDriver is running a 10. My fenders are rolled but i havent yet massaged the inner wheel wells bc it hasnt been necessary with my current setup...ill post my new setup plans so you guys can see what you think...

 

[killer5.0]

93 5.0...currently 500rwhp...cruise and aggressive street driving and show only...Some of this i have on the car (i will mark with an X)...some i will be replacing or upgrading etc...new setup plans

Front suspension:

Maximum motorsports k member
MM reverse offset control arms
MM k member brace
Ridetech airstruts (currently MM coilovers)
Ridetech CC plates
Stock swaybar (X)
96-04 spindles (currently 95...MM recommends 96+ with their k member)
95 cobra discs (X)

Rear suspension:

MM XD adj RLCA (X)
MM panhard bar (X)
MM HD torque arm
MM pinion snubber (X)
Ridetech shockwaves (currently bilsteins and MM springs)
NRC fox length axles (X)
95 Cobra discs (X)
Wildrides torque box reinforcements

Chassis stiffening components:
Stifflers SFC (X)
Stiffler FIT (X)
Stifflers trans crossmember (X)
Stiffler driveshaft safety loop (X)


Steering:
03-04 cobra rack
MM rack bushings
Fox length inner tie rod ends
MM steering shaft
MM bolt through bumpsteer kit (fox )

Other stuff:
Urethane motor mounts
Urethane tranny mount (X)
Urethane control arm bushings
FRPP aluminum driveshaft (X)
Ridetech digital control system


Anything im missing or should change?

Im running 18x9 and 18x10 drifts right now...hoping to be able to use these now and keep them as a backup when i get my new wheels (which will be determined after this is together so i can measure etc)

 

[hoopty5.0]

I think you'd be best served by calling MM and talking to their techs. Then reporting back here with what they say

 

[killer5.0]

I fired off a few emails...so far MM said about the 9.5" rear wheel being the widest and that they havent used or dealt with ridetech so cannot advise me about that.

Ive reached out to ridetech but no response yet. I have a feeling its going to be both saying they dont know how they will work together...problem is its too expensive to just try.

I will report back after i hear more...

 

[stanglx2002]

Are you going to be putting this car on a road course? If not, then you do have other options of doing a PHB with spherical busing in the rear and upper control arms with spherical rod ends. This will get rid of the binding that everyone talks about now that the rear and the body have more available movement without bushing binding.

If you are trying to get even more out of the car you can go the route that I am of a PM3L (Poor Man's 3-Link), which removes one of the upper control arms, but it is highly recommended to brace the upper mount more.

 

[95BlueStallion]

Are you going to be putting this car on a road course? If not, then you do have other options of doing a PHB with spherical busing in the rear and upper control arms with spherical rod ends. This will get rid of the binding that everyone talks about now that the rear and the body have more available movement without bushing binding.

If you are trying to get even more out of the car you can go the route that I am of a PM3L (Poor Man's 3-Link), which removes one of the upper control arms, but it is highly recommended to brace the upper mount more.

This is what my '11 was. Had it low, and it handled like it was on rails. I honestly miss that car, but hope to get the fox there eventually.

 

[95BlueStallion]

Umm... I'm interested. My '93 has an MM Torque Arm and 18x10 wheels with a 295/35/18. Runs perfectly fine. I believe the inner fender was "massaged" for fitment, though the TA doesn't seem to be in the way.

I dont think its that TA cars cant handle, its just that they need stiffer rear springs as the TA creates/allows more body roll than dual upper arms. So it all depends on the spring rate of your sweet ass new ride, as well as sway bar stiffness, and how that compares to the ridetech system the OP wants to run.

 

[stanglx2002]

I dont think its that TA cars cant handle, its just that they need stiffer rear springs as the TA creates/allows more body roll than dual upper arms. So it all depends on the spring rate of your sweet ass new ride, as well as sway bar stiffness, and how that compares to the ridetech system the OP wants to run.

The reason for the stiffer springs is because with the additional of the TA you have a loss of binding from the upper and lower control arms bushings. I know that it sounds funny but without the stiffer rear springs the rear of the car will be very squirrelly moving from side to side and up and down with no resistance from the control arms bushings to stop it. To compensate for this MM increased the rear springs rate to correct this issue.

If you dont get the stiffer springs you will also run into issues with the tires coming into contact with the fender lips from to much movement. The reason for there rim width maximum is due to the increased articulation given by the TA meaning that the wheel can go further into the wheel well and if to wide you can have contact issues with both the inside and outside of the wheel hitting the body.

 

[GroverDill]

For the life of me I cant remember what rates are on the rear, I know I called MM they said for a great handling street car with the HD T/A get these, I said OK!


Chris just know you have MM recommended rates for the front and rear for a aggressive street car


It could be in the invoice/receipt pile

 

[FastDriver]

No worries, Joe. I love the way the car rides on the street and do not want to change the rates, exactly what they are is irrelevant to me.

Following the above discussion, I would consider talking to MM about a bigger sway bar to reduce the sway, which should reduce body roll, increase handling, and reduce the probability of contacting the outer fender. The PHB's job is to reduce lateral movement. I would only consider going stiffer if the rear tires scrub the outer fender. If you haven't experienced that, I doubt I will either.

 

[killer5.0]

This is the ride height im after...it seems there may be some conflict with ridetechs shockwave mounting bracket and the panhard bar mounting location...

I will be calling ridetech monday to see if they have any info about this but looks like i might be stuck with rear coilovers

So basically im looking for the best suspension setup that yields both this ride height and handling for high hp (500rwhp now 750+ rwhp end goal) aggressive/cruise street car and the ability to run a wide wheel/tire (hopefully a 10.5 bc of the wheel i want to run)

Also Jack from MM recommends if i install the TA to use their rear swaybar (as you mentioned) to keep body roll etc to a minimum

 

[FastDriver]

For the life of me I cant remember what rates are on the rear, I know I called MM they said for a great handling street car with the HD T/A get these, I said OK!


Chris just know you have MM recommended rates for the front and rear for a aggressive street car


It could be in the invoice/receipt pile

I actually skimmed through the folders of records you kept. Blown away by the original window sticker, warranty card, owners manuals that obviously came with this specific car, print of Ford's VIN decoder, and parts receipts for $30 parts all the way back to '99 at least, lol! My god you kept meticulous records. Anyways, I found one that referenced the coil over kit, but only unfortunately stated, ""Bilstein coil over kit with springs." I will probably be able to pull a part number or a measurement off of them whenever the rear wheels come off at some point, but until then, I'm not worried about it.

 

[killer5.0]

So MM recommends 200lb rear coilover rates and 300-350 front....thoughts? Have some potential fitment issues with the shockwaves and panhard bar that may require some fab work...so have to see if i can sort that out before i decide.

That being said, whats your thoughts on the air struts vs conventional coilovers?

From what ive read and comparisons ive seen the airstruts hold up to or exceed coilovers and alot of new high end cars have air

 

[FastDriver]

Conventional coilovers work great for me on both cars. No opinion on the air struts. I wouldn't fix what ain't broke in my case.

 

[killer5.0]

The main advantage for me is being able to lower it for shows etc and raise it for ride height because the roads by me are terrible so dont allow me to set my coilovers as low as i would like. Its a pretty big cost difference for sure but if it can keep up to the coilovers performance wise etc then it might be worth it to me. And the offer a 1,000,001 mile warranty on their struts lol

 

[FastDriver]

I'll stay tuned, but I'm skeptical that they are a performance match.