Lowering springs, Front Camber & Rear Panhard Bar

[Over's GT]

Can anyone with some real experence with this help clear up one of the biggest issues '05 Mustang owners have

what do we need to to after we install lowering springs?

I can't find a thread that answers this without posters trying to sell more stuff or just guessing on what is best


the goal is for the majority of lowered Mustang owners who drive daily within the general limits of the car (not racers) to have a car that does not eat up front tires or handle weird because of the geometry is out of wack

these are my plans: (Pease add your opinions if you have background on subject, not just gueses)


-install ebach pro-kit with a adjustable rear panhard bar (track bar)

-center rear axle after car has been on ground a few days (springs will settle)

-get front end allignment, get the toe adjustment back and check how far off
the camber is (I may have the allignment specs checked before lowering so I have a baseline, as I like the way car handles tracks & responds now)
-depending on how far off the camber is I will leave it alone and drive for a couple thousand miles to see how handling and tracking is and how the inside of front tires are wearing

-if inside tread of tire is within reason I will rotate tires front to rear more often
(best way to check the inside wear it to remove tires and set them on a flat level surface, if alot of neg camber wear the tires will lean toward the hub side a little, if they fall over you have big problems)

 

[duner]

Did you have a look in the "S197 Technical Write ups" forum?
http://forums.stangnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=205

gp001 has posted some helpful info.

 

[Over's GT]

Duner, thanks, that type of install tech is great and more is welcome.

but what I'm trying to get at is more the real world after affects of the
lowering springs on '05-up Mustangs, not the obvious stiffer ride, scrapping
speed bumps or curbs but more the concern of not loosing any of the great
engineering that ford put into the front and rear suspensions.
the points of concern are:

on the front

-front camber, to much neg camber after lowering

-is almost $200 for camber adjusters really needed or is a little more front tire wear within acceptable limits

-if camber is off, how will it effect everyday driving?
(my experience with more neg camber is, a little wandering on semi-truck rutted or cround roads, and faster turn in when turning aggressively)

-possibly bump steer (although livable for most and more a tie rod allignment issue)

on the rear

-adjustable panhard / track bar seem to be a no brainier to get axle centered

-but what about the links / control arms

-do the axle end of lower control arms need to be lowered or adjustable or is this just for cars that are used at extremes like drag racing or road racing to get Nth degree out of it

-what about upper link for pinion angle, does this effect an everyday driver

 

[afixer]

this is getting real old. i have stated a few times on a few forums. alittle history first. 1 am 44 not a young ricer kid just wanted to get the car a little settled. i own a v6 premire ok its not a GT but fun anyway.

When i took it in for my front end bushing replacment at the ford dealership where i bought it. the head mechanic a friend of mine for almost 30 years installed my steeda pro kit for me since he had the front springs out anyway. took about an hour for the front. the new springs are about three inches shorter but thicker so they dont sag as much after reinstalled in the housing.
Now the camber is off (in the red) and the mustang does not have adjusters. so he ordered a kid from his ford sanctioned vender about $ 40.00 (4 bolts, adjusting basicly) real clean they alowed him to put it back into speck 20 min on the ford 4-wheel lazer alignment rack they just installed last year.
Ok then he installed my rear springs for me another 20 min. i have driven it for about 500 miles now speed bumps fast and slow (i've tried them all) driveways no prob and the handeling is awesome ! i know that because my wife keeps telling me to slow down. now i just have to put alittle wider tire on! I chose the steeda kit because the eibach kits are to low. this one is just 1 inch and its plenty. i dont work for steeda i had actually purchased the eibachs first then was talking to steeda about something else and he said stuff that made sence. i feal i made the right choice.
my friend the installer has been in the suspention buis for over 25 years and i trust him and he likes the kit. actually after we finished most of the mechs check it out and gave it I work in the movie buis doing special effects and rig lots of cars for jumps,flips, chases and crashes. again im not a ricer i just didnt like the way i could put my fist between the tire and the fender. this hight is how the car should com from the factory. sorry im venting but i love this car and my access to stuff has alowwed me do download every TSB and work report (most i have posted here somewhere) just to help but because im not a GT guy they seem to go unnoticed. bla bla im done.
http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34172

 

[Over's GT]

afixer, I have seen your post and your ride, very nice clean look

re. "now the camber is off (in the red) and the mustang does not have adjusters. so he ordered a kid from his ford sanctioned vender $ 40.00 (4 bolts, adjusting basicly) real clean they alowed him to put it back into speck"

how can I get this kit, where, part # supplier etc.
does it work the same way as the steeda kit, only affordable?
pm. me if you like Thanks

my call is still out there on the other specifics I listed above

 

[afixer]

ill call him at home today (sat) see if he has the info. and no it is totaly dif from the steeda kit. the steeda kit is 2 billet plates with 4 bolts and you elongate the origianal holes. that is what my friend thought he would have to do with his kit. when they showed up from his supplier he called and said i would love it due to the fact that it was just 4 off setting bolts no elongating needed. just swap and adjust very cool. he ordered 2 kits, on for me and one for my other friend with a GT both were around 40.00 his cost. So with standard markup i figure they will be in the forties. ill get the make and part # and also take a digital pic and post. that way when guys (and Gals) do this they could bring the adjusters with the spring kit if they like. im sure after a while everyone will have this kit in stock but as are cars are new i guess it wouldnt hurt to be prepared. it would have saved me an extra trip!

 

[lostsoul]

I installed my eibach sports kit last night. The car really does look much better without that 4x4 look. I can now take hard turns without feeling like I'm going to roll it. So far the only issue I have is thats its a little bouncy. I'm hope new shocks that hit the market will take care of that later.. all in all its not bad. I just wish I was not too lazy and install the panhard bar =-/.. sheeeet. later when I got time I will try that.. I still need to get it aligned.. Do you think Ford would be the best place for it and how much do they cost? I hope I dont need a $200 camber kit =-/

 

[afixer]

sport is alot of drop. mine dosent bounce that was one of the probs i heard with the eibachs. and why i went steeda

 

[lostsoul]

you should have posted earluer ;-) hahaha.. its ok.. I dont mind the bounce too much. the handling makes up for it. I hope new adj. shocks will come out.. I used to have them in my old ride..somedays I can be sporty and others and can ride like a caddy

 

[afixer]

here is a exploded view. its the old way they have a new better way i am still looking

 

[gp001]

Duner, thanks, that type of install tech is great and more is welcome.

but what I'm trying to get at is more the real world after affects of the
lowering springs on '05-up Mustangs, not the obvious stiffer ride, scrapping
speed bumps or curbs but more the concern of not loosing any of the great
engineering that ford put into the front and rear suspensions.
the points of concern are:

on the front

-front camber, to much neg camber after lowering

-is almost $200 for camber adjusters really needed or is a little more front tire wear within acceptable limits

-if camber is off, how will it effect everyday driving?
(my experience with more neg camber is, a little wandering on semi-truck rutted or cround roads, and faster turn in when turning aggressively)

-possibly bump steer (although livable for most and more a tie rod allignment issue)

My camber was way off after lowering with the Pro Kit. Find a competent alignment shop and they will be able to realign without the camber plates. If you go with a spring that lowers it more than the pro kit you may need the plates.

You don't want your camber to be off. It will affect ride quality, tire life, etc. and unless you are trying to drive 10/10 on the street you will never see a benefit. I told my alignment guy the car is 98% street car and 2% race car. He said I was a liar and it is at least 6.5% race car and 93.5% street car, but the alignment specs woud be the same.

I have not had any bump steer. I don't think the pro kit induces enough bump to notice.

on the rear

-adjustable panhard / track bar seem to be a no brainier to get axle centered

-but what about the links / control arms

-do the axle end of lower control arms need to be lowered or adjustable or is this just for cars that are used at extremes like drag racing or road racing to get Nth degree out of it

-what about upper link for pinion angle, does this effect an everyday driver

Yes on the adjustable panhard. You have that one nailed

If you are not racing the car do not worry about the LCAs, relocation brackets, or upper link .
The adjustable LCAs allow you to set your pinion angle for optimum performance. Keep in mind that the adjustable ones are NOISY!!!! Since one, or both, end(s) is basically solid you feel and hear more road noise.
The relocation brackets allow you to adjust the instant center of the car for optimized weight transfer, handling, etc. Again, if you are not racing it hard don't worry about it
The upper link really is only necessary in EXTREME situations. Unless you modify you engine ALOT(for drag racing) or run extreme on a road course I wouldn't worry about the upper link.

 

[afixer]

here is the web site and part# for the camber adjustment sorry it took so long
81260 EZ CAM XR (14MM)

Tom
http://www.specprod.com/PROD_DIR/PROD_PASSCAR.HTML

 

[Over's GT]

afixer, gp001,

Thank You. much help.....

now I think this thread was worth starting, wasen't sure at first.


its not to long and think most people will get the answers they want
ps. last few days I've been driving my GT like a race car around the mountain and preserve roads in Phoenix area, DAM this car handles much better then last gen (reason for concern on not loosing what Ford put in when lowering) and those little P zerro's sure are stickie! I love this car more every mile

 

[gp001]

You are welcome

 

[pwhite05]

Should i go with the adjustable or nonadjustable panhard? I think im pulling towards getting Eibach Sportline

 

[gp001]

definately adjustable.

 

[Over's GT]

I second that.

only reason to get a non-adjustible is if you are at stock ride height and want a stronger bar, I don't see the logic with the manufacturs making these unless they make specific lenghts depending on amount of lowering.

 

[thump_rrr]

I am also a big fan of Steeda parts.

Here is a cut and paste from one of my posts on another Mustang Forum

"I like Steeda myself.
It's not packaged but it's all proven on the track.
I've already installed the front and rear sway bars, billet strut tower brace, and G-trac brace. The difference when you turn into a corner and the understeer/oversteer balance of the car is night and day. I'm waiting for the Tokico D-Spec shocks to become available before installing the Steeda springs (which are 30% stiffer and 1" lower) and lower control arm relocation kit. I aleady have the rear tie bar, panhard rod and panhard rod brace on order.
Once you try Steeda you don't want anything else."

The lower control arm relocation kit does exactly what it's name implies.
It relocates the lower control arms upwards 3/4" (Can anyone say 65 Shelby GT350) when this is combined with the lower Steeda springs it will maintain proper camber. The problem is it is a 6 hour job and requires some tack welds which means not a home project except for the most well equipped shade tree mechanics. The bumpsteer kit is used to adjust the angle of the tie-rod ends to remain parallel to the A arms reducing bumpsteer.

555-8116 Control Arm Relocation Kit
555-8215 Sport Springs (set of 4)
555-8106 Steeda Bumpsteer kit

 

[delurker]

definately adjustable.

+1

I just installed an adjustable Spohn panhard bar this morning. Piece of cake, didn't even have to jack her up to do it and now she's perfectly centered. I got the chrome-moly spherical rod ends, probably overkill since everything else back there (including the stock panhard bar) uses poly bushings, but later when I go off the hook with suspension upgrades I'll probably be glad I did.

I was expecting some increased road noise, but haven't hear anything different up to 50 mph around town on some beat up streets. All the dynamat in the back of my car for the stereo may have something to do with that lol.

 

[gp001]

The lower control arm relocation kit does exactly what it's name implies.
It relocates the lower control arms upwards 3/4" (Can anyone say 65 Shelby GT350) when this is combined with the lower Steeda springs it will maintain proper camber. The problem is it is a 6 hour job and requires some tack welds which means not a home project except for the most well equipped shade tree mechanics. The bumpsteer kit is used to adjust the angle of the tie-rod ends to remain parallel to the A arms reducing bumpsteer.

555-8116 Control Arm Relocation Kit
555-8215 Sport Springs (set of 4)
555-8106 Steeda Bumpsteer kit

Actually the Shelby drop lowers the upper control arm on the old cars by 1" down and 1/8" back.

That said, the relocation brackets being asked about in this thread are the ones for the rear. Steeda's site doesn't give alot of info, or even a real clear picture of the part you list, but I can't imagine anyone needing it.