M.M. or Global West Subframe connectors?

droptop93 · Mar 18, 2004

So I've narrowed it down to either the Maximum Motorsports full length pieces, or the Global West full lengths with the seat ties. I've been reading lots of other posts, and still haven't decided which one is better.

The MM subs are welded to the undercarriage at multiple points, but use a thinner wall (1-1/4” x 2” x .083”) square tubing...whereas the GW subs use both larger and thicker walled (1-5/8” x .125”) round tubing, but are only welded on front and rear.

Obviously either one will be a great product that will do its job, just wondering if there is somekind of advantage, one over the other, that I'm overlooking.

Anyone had both by any chance?

Any help would be appreciated...

mastrdrver · Mar 18, 2004

I too am wanting to know this.

LX302 · Mar 19, 2004

I didn't have both, but have the Global West one's. They weld into the front and back like you said, but they also include a plate to weld to the subframe tube to the floor for extra suport. Had them on for the last 6 years and it was one of the best mods I did. But if you wanted to go with the MM ones, I heard they were just as good. Anything you put on the car to tie the front and back frame together will make a difference. HTH.

autoXr1 · Mar 19, 2004

Strictly from an engineering perspective, round tubing is stronger given the same guage metal, as the strength is relatively uniform on all surfaces. However, if you plan on going with a torque-arm suspension later on, the square tubing is a little easier to weld to.

That said, the BEST by far, frame kit available right now is the Griggs Racing Full Frame Kit. It has two sets of subframes, welds them top to bottom, through the floor, and then has a heavy guage steel plate that ties them together and runs across the rear seat area. It's not something for a novice welder to try to install.

droptop93 · Mar 23, 2004

autoXr1 said:
Strictly from an engineering perspective, round tubing is stronger given the same guage metal, as the strength is relatively uniform on all surfaces. However, if you plan on going with a torque-arm suspension later on, the square tubing is a little easier to weld to.

That said, the BEST by far, frame kit available right now is the Griggs Racing Full Frame Kit. It has two sets of subframes, welds them top to bottom, through the floor, and then has a heavy guage steel plate that ties them together and runs across the rear seat area. It's not something for a novice welder to try to install.

I've looked into the Griggs through the floor kit, and pretty much decided it's alittle more than I need. I think some form of full-length subframe connectors along with an 8-pt cage should be enough for my goals. I do realize that the Griggs kit is far superior, but I think that would be much more suitable for a more track-oriented car than mine.

Thanks for the input on the 4-link setup, I didn't take that into account. I'm guessing they are pretty comparable, the GW having stronger round tubing, and the MM having more attaching points kinda evens them out...

redterror302 · Mar 23, 2004

I may just be partial to MM myself since I plan on getting that, but it definitely looks like a quality piece to me. I was planning on the standard length, since they look good, and have the seat brace, but then I figured I could just wait a little bit and get the full length. Do they still have the seat braces on them?

I just want my car to be more solid, and be able to handle the twisties better, so which would be recommended, full length or standard length?

Gravel · Mar 23, 2004

MM all the way. No one works harder on quality control and customer satisfaction then they do!! Those guys rock!!!

droptop93 · Mar 23, 2004

5.0GT said:
I may just be partial to MM myself since I plan on getting that, but it definitely looks like a quality piece to me. I was planning on the standard length, since they look good, and have the seat brace, but then I figured I could just wait a little bit and get the full length. Do they still have the seat braces on them?

I just want my car to be more solid, and be able to handle the twisties better, so which would be recommended, full length or standard length?

The description doesn't say they have seat ties, but from what I've read on other posts, and from what appears to be the seat ties in the picture on the website...I do believe they have them. I don't know why they would be offered with the standard length subs and not the full length ones?

And I would definately wait and save up for the full length pieces...they will do a much better job.

Just deciding on which ones seems to be my problem...

89MustangGX · Mar 23, 2004

I am halfway through an install with the MM full length pieces, and they're definitely more work than the standard ones! They do have seat ties, BTW. From being under the car and helping out while someone else welds, they're definitely more to do. All the extra brackets need to be welded seperately, the support blocks, the seat ties (gussetts), the extra support plate in the front, and there's just generally more welding. But I guess this is part of what makes them better? Anyway, the material is really alot more than other connectors, and they look like they'rem ade really well - so I don't doubt they are stronger liek they claim.

TattooMatt · Mar 23, 2004

I have the MM ones. Awesome product. The welds were poorly done, which I have to have fixed but they still stiffen the car to the point that it feels like a different car. Handling, traction, and ride all improved. The suspension actually does the work rather than the chassis.

90lxcoupe · Mar 23, 2004

i also have the MM subframes i noticed a difference right when i sat in my car, i would reccomend them ove any other subrames. but ig the global west ones are full lengths they will do the same job and there probally wont be a noticable difference between the brands.

stangbear427 · Mar 24, 2004

I too have full length Mm's, and they are awsome. Being compared to the Global West round tubes in particular, it's a tossup of priorities. QDRHRS and I duked it out for weeks over which of these two are better, he has the GW's. The truth is, round tube is theoretically stronger, as was already pointed out. My argument, like was mentioned also, is that welding end to end more than compensates. There is one more factor though: clearance. I think this is what the final decision can be made on. If you run stock springs or just a stock height suspension, the round tubes will be fine. On a lowered car, MM's peices will really shine because they don't hang down anywhere near as far, and they are really fitted to the contours of the floorpan. How do you jack off of a round tube? Getting a jack under my car is difficult, to say the least, with GW's it would not be possible, period. However, if you are a drag racer with a weekend warrior looking for ultimate strength, the GW round subs are an inherently stronger design. My question is this: knowing MM's fanatical devotion to engineering the absolute best products to do the job set before them, (and knowing that if they wanted to make their subs out of thicker steel or stronger tube they could have) if in all their testing, research, and product developement (including extensive racing time on the track) they discovered that having thicker wall, stronger subs was advantageous... wouldn't they have made them that way? Just my $.02

89MustangGX · Mar 24, 2004

stangbear427 said:
My question is this: knowing MM's fanatical devotion to engineering the absolute best products to do the job set before them, (and knowing that if they wanted to make their subs out of thicker steel or stronger tube they could have) if in all their testing, research, and product developement (including extensive racing time on the track) they discovered that having thicker wall, stronger subs was advantageous... wouldn't they have made them that way? Just my $.02

There's something to be said for this. I was reminded not too long ago that there will almost always become a point where all you are doing is adding extra weight.

autoXr1 · Mar 24, 2004

"...My question is this: knowing MM's fanatical devotion to engineering the absolute best products to do the job set before them, (and knowing that if they wanted to make their subs out of thicker steel or stronger tube they could have) if in all their testing, research, and product developement (including extensive racing time on the track) they discovered that having thicker wall, stronger subs was advantageous... wouldn't they have made them that way? Just my $.02"...Stangbear427

I think I can answer this in a round-a-bout way. Realistically, what do subframe connectors do? They strengthen the chassis by reducing chassis flex in the middle of the vehicle. If you add crossmembers, then you strengthen the chassis on another axis...side-to-side. Add a cage, then you strengthen the chassis to resist rotational forces, so on, and so forth.

Subframe connectors do strengthen the chassis, but it is simply an "entry-level" type of bracing. The vehicle will still be subject to many other chassis-bending forces. So, back to your question. Given that Maximum Motorsports is predominantly a track-performance company, it may be that offering something significantly heavier would not offer any significant advantages in terms of chassis rigidity. Certainly, anyone who is going to see track duty with a modified vehicle is likely to install a proper cage, other chassis bracing, and safety equipment designed to handle a racing environment. Subframe connectors are on the list of "minor" chassis mods and is one of many forms of bracing offered by Maximum Motorsports.

The other thought, which wasn't addressed, was the type or hardness of the steel used. If Maximum Motorsports is using a harder type of steel, then they may be able to have as much, or more, strength as the GW subframes if GW is using a softer, but thicker steel.

stangbear427 · Mar 24, 2004

Very true. I think that MM, while they do market and sell to street fighters like me, are predominantly geared towards competitive racers like American Iron, etc who it is assumed will be using a cage to complete the package in which case, the strength of their subs may well be an overkill- while they may not offer the same strength as the GW subs do if a cage isn't employed with either. Might be worth asking them about...

Imyourzero · Mar 25, 2004

stangbear427 said:
How do you jack off a round tube?

Most any guy could tell you that!

stangbear427 · Mar 25, 2004

I was wondering when somebody was going to pick up on that

tarch · Mar 26, 2004

how do you go about ordering from Global West? phone number?

5.0 Nostalgia · Mar 26, 2004

tarch said:
how do you go about ordering from Global West? phone number?

My Global West's should be here within a few days. Just go to www.globawest.net and get the number and call them.

In answer to the original question, I order Global West after much research between MM and them. You are probably going to get more people tell you to get MM because they are a big company and sell more units. To be honest, no matter what ones you get, they will be sufficient. However, the Global West design has been around for many years and have withstood the test of time. One of my friends has them on his car. It was one of the first things he did with his car and he bought it in '94. The car now makes 561rwhp and he does not have one buckle in his quarters.

stangbear427 · Mar 26, 2004

Big company? Maximum Motorsports? I think you may be confusing them with Steeda.

Global West on the other hand, has also been selling parts twice as long as MM, well over two decades. They are huge- their product line includes parts for several brands of car not just Mustangs, as well as engineering full race cars. Not a mom and pop operation by any stretch of the imagination. I'm sure MM could only dream of moving as many parts in a fiscal year.

M.M. or Global West Subframe connectors?

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