Manual steering rack..

[dmoody]

>So they spend the jing for the bling and it doesn't match up

I had no problems with the March pulley set. In fact if it wasn't for the alternator pulley it wouldn't have taken me more than an hour to install. Also I did look around in the junkyard pulling parts and pieces, then taking them home to see if they would line up. No luck and I got tired of mixing and matching pulleys, brackets, etc. Besides those V-groove pulleys rust then your belt starts slipping. Serpentine pulleys have a much larger surface area and billet never rusts.

>which puts them into a panic attack

I didn't have a panic attack whenever I found out my yoke wouldn't fit the manual rack. You must not be familiar with buying aftermarket parts for a II. Nothing fits perfectly or goes in without a hassle when you're working on a II.

>$80 billet-joint eye candy

To save $80 I suppose I could spend my time crawling around in junkyards pulling the yoke off or I could simply buy a new one. Since this part is very important to the integrity of your steering I prefer to buy a new one anyway.

>don't you know you have to have that $80 billet-joint

The flaming river yoke isn't billet. You're talking about the billet steering U-joint made for the Fox stangs which is much more than $80.

d

 

[Wart]

I had no problems with the March pulley set.

And how much of the front of the engine is factory II?

 

[Wart]

Besides those V-groove pulleys rust then your belt starts slipping.

Don't rust when it's driven.

 

[2muchtime]

(note to self)
search for old junk yard parts, do not buy anything new for my stang ..
new is bad very, very, bad.

instead find at least one pinto in a junkyard that hasnt been crushed
crawl under to see if theres any rotted parts left, and hope for the best ..



oh , and park my car next to warts at car shows

 

[Wart]

oh , and park my car next to warts at car shows

I'm flattered.

Who would have thought you would want to be that near me?

 

[2muchtime]

boy are you easy to please,

oh, were alot alike
i just bite my tongue most of the time
i could make stupid comments in all the threads i view, but thank god your there to cover my back..

 

[Wart]

i just bite my tongue most of the time
i could make stupid comments in all the threads i view, but thank god your there to cover my back..

Seems this thread you've returned the favor.

[g]

 

[dmoody]

And how much of the front of the engine is factory II?

Up until a few weeks ago, everything was stock w/ exception to the intake. Now I've added an aluminum water pump and newer heads (E6SE) which I ported myself. Other than that, just some dress up stuff like valve covers.

As for the pulleys, you're right they won't rust if you drive the car enough. I wish that I could justify keeping more of the car stock, but sometimes it is easier to buy a new part than continually restore an old one.

d

 

[jeffnoel]

OK, thanks to a Stangnet member I now have a water pump pulley with the correct spacing. I've pulled the PS pump and hoses all I need to get is the new joint and I noticed that the Manual and PS II's used different outer tie-rod ends. From what FR says the manual ones are shorter than the PS ones. Will the PS ones work on a manual rack or do I need to get shorter manual steering ones?

 

[Dano78]

Sorry if I left you hangin Wart. Seems I alwasy miss the debates lately!

Anyhow, Jeff, not sure on the tie rod ends. My '80 pinto Rack had tie rod ends already on it and I just installed the whole she-bang and didn't even have to really even rough-in align it to drive it to the alignment shop.
As far as the u-joint I'm slowly remembering what I did. When you unbolt the steering column the rubber part (doughnut) stays attached to the rack (IIRC) and it splits into 2 pieces aswell. All I did was take the lower cast-iron piece (part splined to the shaft on the R&P unit) that was on the pinto rack and stuck the doughnut and it's hardware on it and bolted it up to the column. No funky stuff, real direst swap.

As far as the Flaming F***** steering rack, the shaft the u-joint splines to MAY be a different length warranting the use of one of their drastically overpriced U-joints since these were originally engineered for use in street rods. Now- i purchased a steering u-joint that I feel is just as good if not better quality than the Flaming F***** joint for 1/2 the price for my 'Model T' via Speedway Motors (a super old Streetrod/racing parts supplier) www.SpeedwayMotors.com . Check them out and see what you think. I've been buying lots of parts for my Model T from them and on alot of their Street Rod parts, their prices are super tough to beat.

I myself am not a catalog builder (Wart I'm sure knows this term) and pride myself on being resourceful on used parts to save me from litterally getting hosed on a car when it comes time to sell it. The biggest thing is the attention I get with my cars because the parts I use CANNOT be found in a catalog in as many cases as I can help it. Don't get me wrong, I like the look of Aluminum and fancy new parts, it just irks me to see 100 other mustangs/fords with the same damn parts. No Fun, and no individualism.
And Besides, we need to keep pillaging these wrecking yards. If we're not showing interest in particular cars, then, guess what? They go straight to the crusher rather than the yard. I have managed to get the last local U-Pull-It yard to keep a fair stock of Mustang IIs (at least for a short time when he does get one in) and a pillage it throuoghly knowing he'll crush it sooner than the others. If it wasn't for me REQUESTING Mustang II parts and hauling 2 wheel barrel loads out on any given Saturday (usually for no more than $50-100 depending on what I've got) he'd probably crush the car the moment he got it. Then you have your yards that are run by clueless individuals. Take All American Classics ( www.allamericanclassics.com )for example. If you're looking for Chevy or Popular Ford Parts, bring the Vasoline, cause they don't have any at the counter. BUT- when it come to Mopar stuff, I almost rob him blind. So I encourage all the MII'ers to hit the yards and request these cars, you might find you'll be salvaging at least more good parts before the cars are crushed.

 

[Power Surge]

When I pulled the power rack out of the 78 and swapped in the manual, I also had to change the steering shaft and joint. The manual rack had a much smaller spline shaft, and required a different length steering shaft. As I recall, a member here on the forums supplied me with the needed OEM manual shaft/joint.

I don't know about the earlier years, but for 78 they changed some of the steering stuff (two different rack lengths and two different tie rod ends to match), so maybe the rack input spline was also one of the things changed.

 

[dmoody]

As far as the Flaming F***** steering rack, the shaft the u-joint splines to MAY be a different length warranting the use of one of their drastically overpriced U-joints since these were originally engineered for use in street rods.

I don't think anyone has mentioned using the Flaming River steering rack??

I myself am not a catalog builder (Wart I'm sure knows this term) and pride myself on being resourceful on used parts

Dano, with all due respect you've helped myself and many others on this forum. I value your advice, however you contradict yourself. You just mentioned buying aftermarket parts for your Model T... doesn't that make you a "catalog builder"? The point is nobody likes to be called names. Especially when they put a lot of hard work into an old car that is nicely restored.

Don't get me wrong, I like the look of Aluminum and fancy new parts, it just irks me to see 100 other mustangs/fords with the same damn parts. No Fun, and no individualism.

In some ways, I agree with you. I find catalogs/magazines these days are nothing but advertisements for parts vendors. The Mustangs/Fords they show have many of the same parts on them... which then pushes others to buy those same parts so they have a cool ride. However how many times do you see a II in any magazine? It is very rare. I don't think I even have to mention how few vendors there are for Mustang II parts. I've put a lot of work into my car and so has my father. I've engineered things that took me weeks to fabricate (like my front grill). I have bought my fair share of aftermarket parts but I don't think that takes away from the individualism or the creativity that shines in my car now. I'm proud of it, just as much as you are your own.

What we (II owners) do with our cars is really at the grass roots level of the restoration hobby. We don't have any magazines feeding us to spend this or that on our cars. Some of the aftermarket parts we buy weren't even originally engineered for II's. We're making things work and sharing our experiences with others to help them with their restoration. That is what makes this forum and the friendships we form so valuable to all of us.

d

 

[Mstng2]

So how many of you guys have ditched the power rack and gone "armstrong" manual steering in your II?

I just did mine, in favor of more HP, yippee!! and in favor of a cleaner, less cluttered, engine bay. I used a MII rack from CSK, and replaced the ragjoint with a manual steering one.
Pulleys... hmmm guess I'm cheep I used the existing pulleys, I simply went to CSK and bought 10 belts ranging in 1/2 inch lengths from 15340 (I think it was) on up and tried them until I found the right size to go direct from the crank to the waterpump with no adjustment needed. I then returned the rest back to the local checker store. wala! Works great. If you still want pics I'll post some tomorrow. (Saturday)

 

[Andy CobraII]

Flaming river Part number

Don't know if this will help, but the universal part needed when
going from a power unit to a manual rack is actually listed in the
fox body section of Flaming rivers website. I was able to keep my
power steering column and attach it to the new skinnier manual shaft
by using the FR1604 part found on this page. It took me awhile talking
to flaming river on phone to figure out what I needed. And yes it was about
$80.


http://www.flaming-river.com/racks2.htm

 

[Wart]

In some ways, I agree with you. I find catalogs/magazines these days are nothing but advertisements for parts vendors.

d

Last rag I bought had an artical on installing a Currie rear. On page 2 of the artical there was an ad for Currie.

Geez, go figure.

And, they didn't even install the rear properly. They used the rubber mount spring plates with solid perches, AND slid the plates all the way inboard so the plates and ubolts would clear the tires .....

I guess if the masses don't know the difference , what's the harm?

 

[dmoody]

Don't know if this will help, but the universal part needed when
going from a power unit to a manual rack is actually listed in the
fox body section of Flaming rivers website. I was able to keep my
power steering column and attach it to the new skinnier manual shaft
by using the FR1604 part found on this page. It took me awhile talking
to flaming river on phone to figure out what I needed. And yes it was about
$80.

That's the same part I used.

d

 

[Blue Thunder]

Finally getting around to this. Blue Thunder, what did you do about the water pump pulley since it runs with the PS pump? Did you use a different pulley or did you use spacers to bring it out so it would run with the Alt?

For some odd reason that I've since forgotten years ago, I'm running an early water pump(68?) on my motor with the outlet on the other side, a 68 alt. bracket set, and a 66-style Fluidyne radiator, too. The pulleys are underdrive units from March designed for the early Stangs.

 

[jeffnoel]

Don't know if this will help, but the universal part needed when going from a power unit to a manual rack is actually listed in the
fox body section of Flaming rivers website. I was able to keep my power steering column and attach it to the new skinnier manual shaft by using the FR1604 part found on this page. It took me awhile talking to flaming river on phone to figure out what I needed. And yes it was about $80.

Thanks the part # is much appreciated.

 

[Dano78]

I don't think anyone has mentioned using the Flaming River steering rack??



Dano, with all due respect you've helped myself and many others on this forum. I value your advice, however you contradict yourself. You just mentioned buying aftermarket parts for your Model T... doesn't that make you a "catalog builder"? The point is nobody likes to be called names. Especially when they put a lot of hard work into an old car that is nicely restored.



In some ways, I agree with you. I find catalogs/magazines these days are nothing but advertisements for parts vendors. The Mustangs/Fords they show have many of the same parts on them... which then pushes others to buy those same parts so they have a cool ride. However how many times do you see a II in any magazine? It is very rare. I don't think I even have to mention how few vendors there are for Mustang II parts. I've put a lot of work into my car and so has my father. I've engineered things that took me weeks to fabricate (like my front grill). I have bought my fair share of aftermarket parts but I don't think that takes away from the individualism or the creativity that shines in my car now. I'm proud of it, just as much as you are your own.

What we (II owners) do with our cars is really at the grass roots level of the restoration hobby. We don't have any magazines feeding us to spend this or that on our cars. Some of the aftermarket parts we buy weren't even originally engineered for II's. We're making things work and sharing our experiences with others to help them with their restoration. That is what makes this forum and the friendships we form so valuable to all of us.

d

No nobody did mention the FR rack itself but questions were asked in refereance to their joints and tie rod ends. I merely stated that they're more then likely designed for use on their street rod R&P units even though stock units are real similar.

No contradiction here. You show me a few '23-'27 Model T's in a wrecking yard or custom joints and heims on production cars in a yard and I'll be there with my toolbox to rape 'em. You failed to ask what I ordered. There's the guys that order parts from a catalog because they are not available and then there's the guys that do nothing BUT use the catalog rather than a little enginuity. The point I was trying to get at, without being rude, is that some people want to be spoon fed rather than put effort into the work. (I'm not directing this at you Jeff, or anyone specific) Be it research or time spent in wrecking yards sometimes I get the feeling (and this isn't everybody and not in every case) we're suppose to to all the footwork for them. Me, I spend damn near every Saturday if not Sunday in the yards looking for specific parts and pieces... sometimes i feel, why should I let out all the secerets? I've spent alot of my time just figuring this stuff out, all the footwork.
And yes, every so often i do ask questions on the boards too. I try to contribute much more than I ask just because I like to help out. BUT- I'm not into spoon-feeding people. I tell him/her what i did and what year/car I got the parts from. (and in Jeff's case I confirmed the parts tonite 'cause I'm yarding the engine/trans out of my car to change the tranny) I offer pictures too, if he/she needed visuals. I just can't stand to watch someone sit there and take it in the yutz for some stupid part he/she really doesn't need to buy that could be had at a local wrecking yard for WAYYYY less. It just saddens me. Nobody wants to actually 'fix' anythign anymore. Everyones to quick to 'Buy it new' rather than try to learn a thing or two and save them a few bucks.
Heck, I just save myself $65 bucks the other day. The P/S pump on my F100 started leaking bad but still worked fine. Buy a pump? Heck no! Bought a re-seal kit instead for $10 and fixed the leak. You think they teach this in auto shop anymore. No. I started doing it, just to learn how. Just ask some of the mechanics on these boards, how many of your co-workers (or you) know how to rebuild starters, alternators, p/s pumps, transmissions, etc...? The automotive industry has become a 'Remove and Replace' wasteful industry.

Sorry to ramble on, I just want to encourage other car enthusists to get out there and be more resourceful rather than letting just their credit card do the work. They'll be surprised and find out how much fun it really is and how much can be learned.

Oh and another thing... NEW doesn't always mean it's better...

 

[dmoody]

Dano,
I don't knock your approach to car building. You remind me a lot of my father... whom I love more than anybody in this world. However we have our fair share of arguments. He prefers your philosophy of recycling and as such has over 20 cars scattered around the farm. That doesn't account for the number of parts he has pulled and stacked willy nilly in the garage so that the car could be sent to the crusher. Anyway my father has a take no prisoners approach to doing anything. Right now he's building his own house, by himself. In 18 months, he's managed to get the house dried in. Anyway my father is retired. I however have a family and a full time job. For me keeping up my house and participating in the lives of those I love leaves me little time to comb through junkyards or police every bad component on my car. I just finished shortening my driveshaft for my T-5 (an argument I lost to Dad). That cost me a day of hammering, chopping and carefully welding. Something I could have paid a shop $50 to do. Anyway I done it but it delays me from ever seeing this car on the road. That is something I'd like for both myself and my Dad to do someday ...finish a car together. So my philosophy is different but I don't think it's because I'm lazy. My Dad always told me growing up "we're going to work that laziness right out of you". He did, I have to discipline myself to spend more time with my family. Otherwise you'll find me working on something 24/7.

d