Max power with stock GT cam?

[krtw]

Once I get my transmission done I want to start swapping heads, intake, etc... Whats the Max HP/TQ the stock cam can support?, using any of the heads and intakes available. NA.

 

[revhead347]

That's going to be a tough question to answer. Most people just change the cam with the heads, so there isn't going to be a large pool of experience with aftermarket heads, and a stock cam.

Kurt

 

[krtw]

I kind of figured that might be the case. I was reading an article that AFR did on a stock 5.0, they claimed 100 horsepower increase while still using the OEM cam. Of course I would eventually change the Cam to match the rest of the setup, but had considered doing the Heads/intake/exhaust first and see what kind of increase I obtained.....mainly out of curiosity.

 

[BlackVert]

the stock cam is pretty good for a blower. that is a result of the lack of valve timing overlap.

but by itself, naturally aspirated, even with great heads and intake, you'd probably be doing pretty good if you hit 275-280 horses at the rear wheels. the lift and duration just don't let enough air get into the cylinders for big power.

 

[Adam95GT]

I kind of figured that might be the case. I was reading an article that AFR did on a stock 5.0, they claimed 100 horsepower increase while still using the OEM cam. Of course I would eventually change the Cam to match the rest of the setup, but had considered doing the Heads/intake/exhaust first and see what kind of increase I obtained.....mainly out of curiosity.

i could see 100 more at the fly with supporting mods... so like 255-280 rwhp id guess

 

[divit250r]

I got 265 / 300 out of mine on a decent weather morning at a Dynojet. I should say that there was a bad misalignment in the intake ports, since I put it on in the car, but I doubt that hurt it more than maybe 5 hp or so. That was also with equal length shorties & flowmasters. I'm curious to know what the curves look like now with my new exhaust & since I've put it back together with the intake ports nicely aligned. lol

Scott

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The stock cam can support over 300rwhp, especially if you add 1.7 roller rockers to increase valve lift.

 

[Black95GTS]

The stock cam can support over 300rwhp, especially if you add 1.7 roller rockers to increase valve lift.

Calling here unless you post picture proof.

Adam

 

[final5-0]

the stock cam is pretty good for a blower. that is a result of the lack of valve timing overlap.

but by itself, naturally aspirated, even with great heads and intake, you'd probably be doing pretty good if you hit 275-280 horses at the rear wheels. the lift and duration just don't let enough air get into the cylinders for big power.

I'm gonna have to throw in with Chris here

Another thing that comes first in my mind is

If you got the motor in a heads/intake off condition .....

It is just a tiny bit more work to slide in another cam :Word:

Its just way more work and expense of fluids, gaskets, etc to do a
cam at a later time

Grady

 

[revhead347]

The stock cam can support over 300rwhp, especially if you add 1.7 roller rockers to increase valve lift.

You mean with a blower or nitrous right? N/A, 300rwhp is just not going to happen. That would mean picking up 110rwhp with just heads and an intake. Most Mustangs with H/C/I don't make 300rwhp.

Kurt

 

[GTA_V6_Mustang]

N/A 300hp is possible but I dont see it happening very easily with the stock cam. The most I have ever heard of was in the 280's and that was with every single bolt on and tune with aluminum heads and intake.

 

[krtw]

Another thing that comes first in my mind is

If you got the motor in a heads/intake off condition .....

It is just a tiny bit more work to slide in another cam :Word:

Its just way more work and expense of fluids, gaskets, etc to do a
cam at a later time

Grady

Good point.... You know its logic like this that got us to the moon....and back during the same mission.

I think AFR was really just trying to prove a point with their heads in the article....

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Calling here unless you post picture proof.

Adam

Can't give you picture proof but with the right combination of heads, intake, 1.7 rockers, and bolt-ons, a N/A 300rwhp (345 crank HP) IS possible with the stock cam. I don't think many people will be swapping the heads/intake without doing the cam though.

N/A, 300rwhp is just not going to happen. That would mean picking up 110rwhp with just heads and an intake.

You forgot to include all the other bolt-ons that add HP like CAI, MAF, TB, pulleys, headers, midpipe, catbacks, and 1.7 rockers. That leaves about 65-70rwhp to be gained from heads/intake.

 

[revhead347]

You can't just add up all the "adds xx hp" numbers that come on the boxes. I just don't think it's going to get to 300rwhp with a stock cam. The most aggressive combination out there for a 5.0 is the Trick Flow kit, and they advertise 350 crank hp. Anything bigger than that, and you have to start notching pistons and stuff. You're talking about getting within 5hp of the most aggressive H/C/I combination.

Kurt

 

[GTA_V6_Mustang]

You can't just add up all the "adds xx hp" numbers that come on the boxes. I just don't think it's going to get to 300rwhp with a stock cam. The most aggressive combination out there for a 5.0 is the Trick Flow kit, and they advertise 350 crank hp. Anything bigger than that, and you have to start notching pistons and stuff. You're talking about getting within 5hp of the most aggressive H/C/I combination.

Kurt

I agree with you on the stock cam thing. But I dont care what these companies advertise. I dont think my set-up is really that aggressive and I made just over 302RWHP on a mustang dyno on a nice warm miami day and expect to be making more towards 320-330 easy with the modifications I made to the set-up I had that day. But anyway back on track I find it hard to believe too that the stock cam would make just as much as my previous set-up. And I do have friends with other 5.0's whos H/C/I setups just dont hit the 300 mark. And I will say it does take a really well put together HCI and supporting mod set-up to start making 1hp per c.i. and above. Trust me I know personally.

 

[BlackVert]

come on now .... a cam is not exactly an additional 10 minutes with the heads being off. it is still probably more like an extra 4-6 hours, and that is if you have done it before and know what you are doing.

i mean, you have to take the radiator out, timing cover, water pump off ... then you have to take the old one out ... then there is the degreeing and then putting it all back together. none of that is needed if it is just heads and intake.

the way i work, since i have never done it before, it would probably add more like 20 hours to the job for me

 

[Pokageek]

I'd have to say, if you like streetability, 280rwhp with the stock cam would be nice.

 

[dstang01]

I'd have to say, if you like streetability, 280rwhp with the stock cam would be nice.

This is my thinking too. I want to do a stock cam setup with aluminum heads but there isn't much love for these kind of setups out there

I dug up an old PM conversation I had with Schlodes, he does very well with his stock shortblock, stock cam, afr 165s and performer intake. I asked him if he regrets not changing the cam, as I was thinking of a similar setup:

Not at all do I regret it.

On the stock motor top to bottom, but bolt ons like a C&L maf, 65 mm TB, headers, off road X, cat back, 3.73s, suspension work, slicks, skinnies, underdrives etc.. you know the basic tricks it bested a 13.17 @ 102.8 MPH with a 1.78 60'.

Next, I added the eddie efi performer, 24 lb injs and a 75 mm pro-m bullet maf, and the afr 165 cc pedestal mount heads, and I busted a pedestal installing my 1.7 RRs so back on went stock rockers. I made sure to port match the eddie to the afrs... it was waaay smaller than the heads.

Went to track like this. I went 12.58 @ 109.00 MPH and ran two 12.60s both at 108.xx and 60 foots were in the 1.7-1.8 range. So I got a trap speed gain of 6-7 MPH average and dropped 6 tenths. that equates to 60 RWHP. From heads and an intake.

Then, end of year only change was cooler weather and adding on my 1.7 Crane roller rockers. The responded with a string of 1.8-1.9 60's and 12.40s at 110.xx and a best of 12.301 @ 111.8 MPH and a 1.73 60' on a burned out trac loc. I was getting one slick but the baseline suspensions setup was helping out. New posi unit and some 3.90 gears and that car would have went 11.90s on the stock short and stock cam.

My car use to pull to the stock limiter. Even with an off road X pipe it was dead quiet and sounded stock, unless WOT then sounded more like a crotch rocket. Stock cam also gave it excellent manners and fuel mileage. I drove it from here [Leamington, ON about 30 mins SE of DEtroit] top Bolingbrook, Illinois. I filled up right before the bidge on our side. It was a 6 hour drive, I went about 65 MPH [took it easy and had the T5-Z so a .73 5th] and it only used 3/4s of a tank to get there. I **** you not.

That's why I stopped posting on the net so much b/c people were always saying I was a liar be it the 13.1s on stock motors or the 12.30 on stock short and stock cam no power adders. Here is my webpage:

http://www.geocities.com/schlodessssu/steves84.htm I have an SVO now but down near the bottom is a vieo of my old notch with the 12.30 setup beating up on a 366 whp turbo civic, and, the link to my Mustang LX page with my old combo.

Stay stock cam, you won't regret it, esp with all the emissions and hard times being given cars these days. If worst comes to worst and you don't like it, buy a cam! But from EXPERIENCE and having run one, stock cam and a 1.7 RR will kick some arse. My LX Notch weighed around 2900 with me in it. Hope that helps.

Tmoss also reminded me that the stock cam is much better than many give it credit for

Anyone else have experience with stock cam setups?

 

[xr8d302]

Interesting to read this

I have a link on my account at work.....that...

call me crazy here, but the internet never lies

With a set of AFR 165 heads, 1.7RR's and a slew of other mods, EXCLUDING forced induction or the cam in question....managed to throw down close to 400hp.

It's a reputable article as well, I think it was done by MM&FF or something

I will have to remind myself to chime back in with a link to that article, as I'm sure it might add some new spark to this thread

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The most aggressive combination out there for a 5.0 is the Trick Flow kit, and they advertise 350 crank hp.

That's for the Street Burner kit. The Track Heat is 360hp and you can get to within 15hp of that with the stock cam/1.7 RR's.