Custom tune?

[Nostang25]

I’m getting a crane cam 2031 and ported E7 heads with 1.7 rockers, 24# injectors. Probably going with 70mm tb and MA to match injectors.

Do I need to do a custom tune for this or just a chip?

Can I port my upper and lower intake myself or should I have someone do it?

The goal is for the car to be healthy but look stock. I’m not going after max power but want a little extra. I’m a newb but don’t mind getting in there and screwing things up!

Ford racing shorty headers with h-pipe and flow masters as well. 3 pedal.

 

[AeroCoupe]

If the MAF is "calibrated" for the 24 lb/hr injectors and you get quality injectors (read Bosch or Ford) then with that cam & 1.7 rockers (for the love of God check your piston to valve clearance), the stock ported heads (waste of money IMO), and a 70mm TB (you should really look at a 65mm) the ECU should be able to handle all of that with a general tune up.

General tune up is cap, rotor, plugs, good plug wires (whole other debate there but the Ford Motorsport 9mm wires will suffice), new spark plugs (again, for the love of God just use Motorcraft plugs and skip all the irridum/fancy plugs that this combo does not need), and a new fuel filter. IF the fuel pump is the stock unit just drop the tank and install a 190 lph Walbro and be done with it. Please get a fuel pump install kit with it so the sock and hose between the pump and fuel pump hanger it new and capable of withstanding the ethanol in our gas.

Set your base timing around 12 degrees and bump it up as you read the plugs. If you cannot read plugs then ask.

As far as tunes go the only way you can tune these ECU's is with a chip and if you are going to do it find a tuner and have it done on a dyno.

 

[2000xp8]

I ran a crane 2031 way back with similar parts.
First off, you do not need 24lb injectors, do not use them, run 19's with a pro m maf calibrated for 19's.
Second, you ARE going to float valves if the heads have stock springs, it's going to be really unpleasant.

Personally, i would never do it any of it again. None of it made sense back then and certainly does not make sense now.
Wish i had someone at that time tell me not to do it.

About the only thing it did well was sound great at idle.

 

[Nostang25]

Thanks for the info. I got a great deal on this set up and figured it was worth a shot. It should get me the sound I want and make it a little more peppy for now. I’ll most likely have a shop set the cam and make sure the rockers are set right. The heads already have aftermarket springs and valves. At least that’s what I was told. I picked them up off a guy with 3 cherry fox bodies in his garage so I hope it’s legit!

 

[Noobz347]

You don't need a tune for the items you've listed however...

The 24s are not necessary for those parts. They solve no issue and create one issue.

The 1.7 rockers are debatable but it's what they call for. On E7 heads? Meh to the Eh...

I do not think that you will appreciate the outcome. You're going to lose on the low end and gain a little in the middle.

Now, if you're planning to boost that combo and/or get some free flowing heads, I think it would wakeup nicely.

A 70mm TB on a stock 302 with E7s is too big IMO.


Overall:

You would be [way] further ahead by leaving it stock and installing a Vortech kit.

Ford racing shorty headers with h-pipe and flow masters as well. 3 pedal.

Boost Boost Boost!

Do I need to do a custom tune for this or just a chip?

24 lb injectors are not so far away that a tune is necessary [if] you're using a meter calibrated for your EEC and 24s.

The farther away you get from the stock 19 lb injectors, the less effective a "calibrated meter" is. There are more differences between injectors than just [duty cycle].

For instance:

A stock A9L with a "calibrated" meter will generally perform just fine with a 24 lb injector. The variances are minor.
A stock A9L with a "calibrated" meter will perform like with a 42 lb injector. This is where a tune will help the most. The caveat? If you're getting a tune, you do [not] need a "calibrated" meter of any kind. You adjust for the meter --and-- the injectors in the tune.

This is info that is good to keep in mind as you continue to mod. I put "calibrated meter" into quotes because it is a misnomer. All it is really doing is skewing the input results in order to tell the EEC what it thinks it wants to hear.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I had a 306 with 351W DOZZ heads that were ported with 1.90 and 1.60 valves, a Comp Cams off the shelf cam, Cobra upper and lower, with a 70mm TB, 75mm Pro-M bullet with 24 lb/hr injectors on a pretty much stock short block (sans the cam and timing chain) with an A9L ECU with no tune and it ran really well. Set the timing at 14 degrees (watched the plugs) and stock fuel pressure. Drove it daily like that for years and it was rock solid and dependable.

If you are expecting anything more than about 250ish to the rear wheels you are going to be disappointed. I will say that 250ish to the rear wheels on some 245/40R17's was an F'n blast to drive for all that time.

 

[Scrapla347]

Like previous comments said the stock computers can learn and should be able to handle it. Make sure your spark plug wires are good, go with regular Autolite copper core plugs, new cap and rotor etc. I got my NA 347 dyno tuned just to make sure everything like the air fuel ratio, exhaust gas temp, etc was safe for daily driving. I still have my chip on my A9L. You didn't have to upgrade to 24lb injectors. When I first started bolting things on to my car I wasted so much money on stuff that really didn't offer any real HP gains.

 

[Nostang25]

Nice. So I’ll stick with stock injectors for now and shelve the 24s for later. Cam, rockers, heads ported close to gt40 I was told, new plugs and wires, distributor. I have a c/l MAS calibrated to the 24# injectors. Should I just leave that off for now and stay with stock TB as well?

I think I mentioned I’ve got shorty headers, h pipe and flowmasters already on it.

Also, the gentleman I bought the package off of believed the setup was 2 degrees retarded when he last ran it.

 

[AeroCoupe]

The ECU is expecting 19 lb/hr injectors so if you want to run the C&L mass air meter then you will need the 19 lb/hr sample tube.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the 24 lb/ hr injectors. You already have them and the MAF is set up for them so use them.

You could run the stock MAF with the 19 lb/he injectors but your setup will take advantage of the larger MAF and TB. It won’t max them out or anything g but they will help.

 

[FastDriver]

My car ran on 30s with a calibrated MAF for a long time. So, it's absolutely fine.

That said, you should know that MAF signal has nothing to do with start up duty cycle. So, it will inject too richly. And, when it acts funny in cold cranking in cold weather, with oversized injectors adding fuel on top of tables calling for more fuel to compensate for the cold already, that's a natural consequence. When into part throttle and the MAF signals less air is flowing, which is how it tricks the injectors to reduce duty cycle, it thinks load is lower and can add up to 40* of timing, inducing detonation, whereas it would be retarding the timing if it were in the correct Load-RPM cell.

Those are the biggest things that come to mind, but I'm not trying to scare or dissuade you. I did this on several different cars for decades until I decided to start tuning, and it was fine. Ya kinda know it ain't quite right, but it's liveable.

The *right* way is tell you computer the size of your injectors, what the correct amount of air moving through the MAF really is, and how much the load scale should change, given the mods. But hey, that costs hundreds of dollars and requires either commitment to learn or access to someone that really knows what they're doing, which is both hard to find and to validate. So pick your poison.

Just be informed, and then take the right path for you. I can boil this all down to the fact that with your mild cam, and presumably mild head and intake, I think you are most correct to stay with stock 19 lbs injectors and the stock MAF, giving you more time to think, until you really need to bump up to meet fueling requirements.

 

[General karthief]

Ok, ok , ok....now your bolting on all this goodness under the hood and.....and....that's it? Yeah money 's tight, I think I get the (sorta) plan, you want a spirited driver so 'mopowa' is the answer, now give a thought to another important factor, get'n that junk move'n, the factory sticks a pedestrian gear ratio to satisfy the masses, we ain't them, we want to get away from the 'masses' cause they cause 'messes' , a gear in the rear is necessary to match the new found powa. Factory option for V8 fox convertible with auto was a 3.08 or 3.27 and most (if not all) sticks got 2.73. Pretty sad, find a 3.27 geared rear is a cheap start but for your expected mods I'd get a 3.73 gear for a spirited cruiser, then you will impress your butt dyno.

 

[Nostang25]

Ok, ok , ok....now your bolting on all this goodness under the hood and.....and....that's it? Yeah money 's tight, I think I get the (sorta) plan, you want a spirited driver so 'mopowa' is the answer, now give a thought to another important factor, get'n that junk move'n, the factory sticks a pedestrian gear ratio to satisfy the masses, we ain't them, we want to get away from the 'masses' cause they cause 'messes' , a gear in the rear is necessary to match the new found powa. Factory option for V8 fox convertible with auto was a 3.08 or 3.27 and most (if not all) sticks got 2.73. Pretty sad, find a 3.27 geared rear is a cheap start but for your expected mods I'd get a 3.73 gear for a spirited cruiser, then you will impress your butt dyno.

Definitely going to go with gears. Thinking 3.55 to keep the highway cruise nice and low rpm but I’ve had many people tell me to go the 3.73 route instead.

 

[gkomo]

I've had 3.73's paired with a T5, highway cruising isn't that bad. If i recall, 2,500rpm at like 75mph? My memory could be off but i daily drove a fox with 3.73's for like 10 years and never remembered highway cruising being an issue. With that said, my new to me Fox has 3.31's and it also feels nice. 3.55's are a great all around gear ratio.

 

[Scrapla347]

I daily drove for years on the highway with 3.73's and it was never an issue. Gears were the most dramatic thing I noticed after installing. No basic engine bolt on's have that dramatic before and after. Sub Frame Connectors were also a huge difference before and after. I really noticed it while taking off ramps at speed.

 

[Noobz347]

If you're planning to stay N/A for a while, I would choose the 3:73s. These will work great with a Centri-Charger or *cough* turbo, down the road too.

 

[FastDriver]

I'd choose the 3.55s, because essentially there's no difference and the 3.55s have a matching speedo gear. So, you won't have to worry about speedo inaccuracy.

Ps. that's just between those 2 gears. I'd actually pair 4.10s or 4.30s with the motor combo to optimize launch and 1/4 ET, speedo be damned.

 

[Nostang25]

I just started looking into bigdogs porting out of Illinois. Anyone have any experience with them?

 

[FastDriver]

them.

 

[FastDriver]

https://www.corral.net/threads/tony-brooks-of-big-dogs-is-a-total-liar.2522448/?post_id=18805358#post-18805358

Skip all the BS and just home in on the comments from his own customers.

With TMOSS, who ported 3 intakes for me out of the game, now, I'd give Eric Weingartner a try. I'm on the hunt, though. On my next build, I wanna compare 2 specific ported intakes.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Isn’t TMoss’ son is still porting? Last email I have from him about opening up my TFS R intakes was late October last year.