May have to sue my engine builder

65fastbackresto · Jul 11, 2008

Some history first, steam holes have to be drilled in the early blocks to match newer style heads, per Edelbrocks clear instructions.

He built my motor last year in October, pretty much refused to drill the holes in my block required by Edelbrock to keep the engine cool. He told me he didnt see the since in drilling the holes, but I told him at the time I figured Edelbrock knew better then him.

Since then I have added a 3 inch thick Griffin aluminum radiator ($740 delivered to the door), a $180 Edelbrock high performance water pump, and a milodon thermatstat at $20, trying to keep my motor cooled down. It still heats up to 220 (or more dont know cause I kill the motor every time) so nothing I`ve done has helped the problem.

I called Edelbrock tech line, they told me the repercusions for not drilling the steam holes would be a motor that would overheat........

This was my 2nd call today to my engine builder complaining about my overheating problem, told him I`d just added the new aluminum radiator and hp water pump and it didnt help much at all. He told me to tear the heads off and bring him the car, which I told him was unacceptable being as I had already thrown over $1000 at a problem he created and wasn`t fixing to touch this motor again.

I`m going to see him Monday morning, and I`ve already explained to him he was going to fix this willing or not, being as he caused the problem to start with.

Here is my point to this post guys, IF YOUR INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS FOR YOUR HEADS CALL FOR STEAM HOLES TO BE DRILLED INTO YOUR BLOCK AND YOUR BUILDER DONT WANT TO DO IT, FIND ANOTHER ONE. I`ve have a car that since it has gotten over 90 degrees outside I cant drive for more then 10 miles at a time, or it overheats.

If anyone has any advice on how I should present myself monday, please help me, cause I`d red in the face over this, and could use any thing yall can give me.

D.Hearne · Jul 11, 2008

My 400+ hp 331 regularly heats up to 220-240 and it's fine with it. You need to give it time & miles to break in and see just how hot it will get before passing judgment on your engine builder. I've got a three inch thick core aluminum radiator, stock aluminum 88 Crown Vic pump (std volume) and a 2950 cfm electric fan. There's nothing unusual about a motor that reaches 220* in 95* weather. Sure, those holes may help and/or need to be drilled, but you also need to give it time to loosen up and heat up to it's max before shooting your builder. What's the part number of the HP water pump? Is it a high performance pump, or a high volume pump ? There IS a difference between the two. A high performance pump is usually a low volume pump (small impeller), made for sustained high rpm operation. The small impeller helps to reduce cavitation at high rpms where the small impeller is designed to function at it's best. It'll suck at low rpms and move the coolant slower. A high volume pump is what you'd want to get maximum cooling at lower street rpms. The 88 Crown Vic aluminum pump is made in all three applications--low, std and high volume.

iskwezm · Jul 11, 2008

D.Hearne said:
My 400+ hp 331 regularly heats up to 220-240 and it's fine with it.

what makes you think thats ok???????

(not knocking you, just looking for a honest answer )

D.Hearne · Jul 11, 2008

It's OK, cause it hasn't harmed anything. Doesn't affect the performance either. Last time out, I drove it thru a ten mile round trip on local back road highways and didn't turn the fan on till I got home. By then it had warmed up to 230. It's been way hotter than that before, due to my lack of attention to the temps and not turning the fan on. I know it's gone past 250 a couple times. The fan is wired with a manual switch. One day I may install an auto switch. High temps don't harm anything as long as the coolant doesn't reach the boiling point. That point is determined by the water/antifreeze mix and the pressure rating of the cap.

65fastbackresto · Jul 12, 2008

Its Edelbrock part number 8841.

And you if consider me "bashing my buidler" cause he didnt follow the installation instructions that came with my heads........and caused the exact problem Edelbrock said it would if he didnt.......

And I also have never had a motor that regularely ran over 200 at all, and I have had lots of cars, I`m 40, and this isnt normal, when I have to kill my motor at the drive in window at the bank if it takes them too long, something is wrong in my opinion anyway.

But to answer your question the 8841 pump is supposed to flow more a lower rpm`s, if that what you mean by high volume.

Heres the add title...

EDELBROCK HIGH PERFORMANCE WATER PUMPS
Optimum Cooling for Chevys, Chryslers & Fords
These "super cooling" pumps are computer-designed to deliver more flow at a higher velocity. They're the ideal choice to prevent overheating in any street machine, street rod, truck, or any performance vehicle. Precision cast powdered metal impellers have extra large vanes for the maximum flow rate possible, ensuring adequate pressure and volume even at lower engine speeds. Standard and reverse rotation pumps are available for most Chevrolets, Fords, and Chryslers

ForceFed70 · Jul 12, 2008

THere's nothing wrong with running your engine in the 200-220* range. Most newer cars run at these temps. 240* is a bit high tho

Good luck with your engine builder. With that cooling system there's no reason you shouldn't be able to keep it below *200 if you want to.

You do have a fan shroud and a good fan right?

65fastbackresto · Jul 12, 2008

Yea stock shroud

and a 6 blade flex a lite, supposed to be real good.

Now that I`ve added air conditioning, idling it for over 3 or 4 minutes with it running is risky. And thats even with it idling at 1000 rpm`s, heck the cam barely lopes that high.

D.Hearne · Jul 12, 2008

Sorry to keep on asking, but you've never said how hot it'll get. You just cut it off at 220. The fuel you're buying today burns hotter than the old stuff of the 60's and 70's. That's partly the reason you see hotter temps in an engine today. Hotter it burns, the cleaner it burns. Like I said before, as long as the coolant doesn't flash to steam, the high temps won't hurt anything. A 50/50 mix with a 13-16 lb cap raises the boiling point and flashover to well above 220*. I'm sure there's a table somewhere that'll tell you where that point is. Find that and let it run till it to see if, and how close it'll get to that point before making a decision.

rbohm · Jul 12, 2008

i am with DH on this. my el camino runs between 200 and 210degrees all the time when warmed up with no issues. how do you know that your temps dont stabilize at 220? remember that race engines regularly run between 220 and 240 degrees these days, and many street engines run between 205 and 220 from the factory. find out first what your engine does run at before you blame the engine builder.

10secgoal · Jul 12, 2008

If your willing to sue him, I'd suggest having some do the holes for you. If he isn't willing to do it.Take the recipe and keep it. If it fixes it, then show him the receipt and let him offer to pay it. If he doesn't, he won't have a leg to stand on in court. If it doesn't fix it, well....

Hack · Jul 12, 2008

I agree that the engine builder should follow Edelbrock's instructions. However, I also agree with D. Hearne that 220 is fine. As long as the radiator doesn't boil over the engine will work properly and there will be no damage done.

D.Hearne · Jul 12, 2008

I looked up two brands of antifreeze (prestone and polarzone) the first had a boiling point in a 50/50 mix of 276* F, the second was 261*F. Neither listed what pressure that was at. The pressure cap, I'd assume raises that some more.

dodgestang · Jul 12, 2008

My God man...drilling holes in his head isn't the answer.

hehe...needed a star trek joke just BECAUSE.

bnickel · Jul 12, 2008

damn even in the desert climate here in west texas my car only runs around 195 with the ac on in 100 degree heat. granted i do have a 3 row 24" rad with a shroud and a thermostatic clutch fan so my cooling system is slightly better than yours, even with the griffin rad, but not by a whole bunch. if i have to sit in traffic with the ac on it might get up to 210 but not very often and i think some redline water wetter will cure that.

one thing i would suggest trying is to fill the radiator up to about 1" below the top of the tank, this is the ford SPECIFIED coolant level, they spcify this because the coolant needs to expand some when it gets hot, if the coolant can't expand enough it may, may only, cause it to run a little warm but i doubt it will make it run 220 or more though. still it's worth a try anyway

65fastbackresto · Jul 13, 2008

I filled the radiator full but....

It blows the first inch out the overflow ever time I drive it, so i guess its where it should be. I`ve got alot of mixed opinions on this subject right now.

I`m also running water wetter, dont know if it helped or not.

I`m going to take the car on its longest trip since I bought the car tommrow, I`m driving a whole 15 miles to my engine builder and I`m gonna leave it idling in the parking lot with the air conditioner on so he can see with his own eyes what its doing. He can sit there and watch the thing blow up in his parking lot for all I care, I should have bought a crate motor anyway.

curtisboyte · Jul 19, 2008

A crate motor is a good way to go.

May have to sue my engine builder

65fastbackresto

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D.Hearne

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iskwezm

D.Hearne

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65fastbackresto

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ForceFed70

That's why they call it "dope"

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rbohm

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Hack

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