middle of a 3g swap, have some ?'s

[HISSIN50]

ok, and thanks by the way for all the response.
you know, i read through several threads, and several articles on line, and i said, ok, easy, i got it. then when you get in there, you start having questions, especially when one article or thread says just leave the black and orange alone, then another says go to where they join then cut it and cap it, then another suggests removing power from them all together, etc......lol, and i think espeically when it's an electrical system there is some added anxiety......so, even though there many threads and articles, again i appreciate the re hash.....

I know what you mean. I had a good idea of how I wanted to do mine, but I re-read all the articles out there just to make sure I had not forgotten anything. And I know that some articles allow keeping the stock charge cables hooked up in parallel with the new 4 AWG power cable. This is a big no-no IMHO (once again, other people very-well may feel differently). In reading threads about it, anything that Jrichker says is good-to-go IMHO. I had decided how I wanted to do it, and then came across one of his threads that I had not seen before, and it was very much the same as I had planned. That was reassuring.

And I would add that earlier I missed that your 2G is not likely to be reused. In that case, if you dont anticipate using one again, Kevin's method should work very well for you (you dont need to keep those two stock cables around for reverse compatibility). But since it is more work, most write ups omit doing these steps, since folks struggle enough with the wiring as it is.

Good luck!

 

[8950HO]

Those wires, if you leave them hooked to the solenoid, are very much as hot as always. I simply DONT trust the stock fusible link to burn before those two wires catch on fire, in the event of a short of that disco'd connector. Kevin it seems, removed that stretch of wiring, rehooked the switch and sense wire to the solenoid (which is the reason we leave the stock orange wires connected to the solenoid after the 3G install), so he does not need them.

When I post, unless I know someone's car specifically, I generally post generic info, as some folks do want reverse compatibility. And some folks are not comfortable removing the stock cables. Kevin's way is the cleanest way to do it, if you know you will never need to reinstall the 2G alternator on the fly (his engine bay is pretty immaculate; many of ours are not).

Huh,what???

The mega-fuse you should install will catch a short if it happens,will it not?
How is a fire possibly going to happen???

I think you`re worrying too much.

Ask Monte Smith the electrical engineer with the 3g install info on his site.

 

[timewarped1972]

he's refering not to the new 4ga power wire with in line fuse, he was refering to the original black/orange wires being still connected to the starter selenoid even though they are disconected from the alternator, and being their still connected to the selenoid are still hot.....which at that point has nothing to do with the alternator wiring anymore, just those black and orange's still hot..

 

[8950HO]

he's refering not to the new 4ga power wire with in line fuse, he was refering to the original black/orange wires being still connected to the starter selenoid even though they are disconected from the alternator, and being their still connected to the selenoid are still hot.....which at that point has nothing to do with the alternator wiring anymore, just those black and orange's still hot..

I know,but I`ve never heard of this being a problem until now..

 

[8950HO]

,bedtime for me.

 

[HISSIN50]

Huh,what???

The mega-fuse you should install will catch a short if it happens,will it not?
How is a fire possibly going to happen???

I think you`re worrying too much.

Ask Monte Smith the electrical engineer with the 3g install info on his site.

TW got it. I would not worry about the new cable or fuse, per se (see below). But the fusible link on the stock charge cable might not burn before the wire catches on fire (if it always burned first in a short to ground, you would not see threads on here where peeps' alternator wiring caught on fire [with stock wiring, stock altnernator]).

To go one step further (which was not addressed - this is just my take): the same worry applies if someone runs the new 4 AWG cable in parallel to the stock cable. Should the new cable have a loose connection, the fuse blow, or any other failure, the juice will take the next-least path of resistance, which is the stock wiring. And once again, the wiring can catch fire before the link burns (no matter how much juice goes through that stock cable, the link should burn first, but it does not always seem to).

Since all of this is avoidable, I choose to take an extra couple minutes to take precautions. For those who know me, I am pretty conservative and take steps for peace of mind that others often dont. And my advice or thoughts on threads very much reflect this. I would hate to have someone have an issue because of a step being omitted. Call it overkill - sure. I dont mind. And that is just me (we already established that all of us are entitled, might I say encouraged, to post our opinions and differences in how we do things. I think it is neat. You guys give me great ideas). In case this came off wrong, I am merely posting my point of view. Who is right? Probably both - since we both stand behind our thoughts. Cool!

Oh, and Mr Smith and I have chatted before.

 

[04sleeper]

And right back atcha' Kevin. Your posts are always right on. The only bad thing is that you dont have time to post on here as much as we would all like.

Yeah, its hard to post as much as I would like to. I travel a lot for work and don't get on as ofter as I would like to.

(good thing Tim, for example, had not posted an alternator thread - he would have thrown up when he saw mention of taping up a connector. ).

Lol. Yeah, him or Paul.

ok, now i have more questions, lol.
ok minus actually removing the wires, at this point.......the one wire i need in that harness is that stator wire right?? now, is there a way i can use that stator wire in the existing harness, and have the black orange ones un hooked from the selenoid so they are atleast not carrying any juice as hissin suggested?? where exactly does that stator wire go to??

I will try to elaborate a little more for you. The only wire you really need is the stator wire. It is the Green/Red wire and runs through the harness in front of your radiator and actually connects to a wire that goes into your dash and connects to your factory gauge cluster. (All it really does is give 12V to the alternator when you turn the key to the on position. It is a switched 12V wire.)

And yes you can unhook the black/orange wires from the solenoid to remove power from it. If you follow the orange/black wires in the harness they merge into one black/orange wire that leads to some fusible link and then connects to the solenoid. You will find it in the buldle of wires that run in your inner fender frame channel. Like this.
View attachment 496656

I hope this helps.

TW got it. I would not worry about the new cable or fuse, per se (see below). But the fusible link on the stock charge cable might not burn before the wire catches on fire (if it always burned first in a short to ground, you would not see threads on here where peeps' alternator wiring caught on fire [with stock wiring, stock altnernator]).

To go one step further (which was not addressed - this is just my take): the same worry applies if someone runs the new 4 AWG cable in parallel to the stock cable. Should the new cable have a loose connection, the fuse blow, or any other failure, the juice will take the next-least path of resistance, which is the stock wiring. And once again, the wiring can catch fire before the link burns (no matter how much juice goes through that stock cable, the link should burn first, but it does not always seem to).

Since all of this is avoidable, I choose to take an extra couple minutes to take precautions. For those who know me, I am pretty conservative and take steps for peace of mind that others often dont. And my advice or thoughts on threads very much reflect this. I would hate to have someone have an issue because of a step being omitted. Call it overkill - sure. I dont mind. And that is just me (we already established that all of us are entitled, might I say encouraged, to post our opinions and differences in how we do things. I think it is neat. You guys give me great ideas). In case this came off wrong, I am merely posting my point of view. Who is right? Probably both - since we both stand behind our thoughts. Cool!

Oh, and Mr Smith and I have chatted before.

Well put JT.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[8950HO]

This is the plug I used when I did mine.
View attachment 496642

I bought it from http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=67 for $20.

Then I stripped out the wires I did not need and replaced the 2 black/orange wires with a 4 gauge wire. (Instead of taping the snot out of it)

I don't like e-tape under the hood, it tends to melt the glue and eventually fall off.

It is not necessary to put the washer back on the pulley if it did not come with one.

I looked over this companys site and have a question about how they show the hookup on the alternator.

They are showing a smaller yellow wire connected to the output terminal of the 3g that goes directly to the voltage regulator.I`m no electrical whiz,but is this safe?.It doesn`t look safe to me.

 

[04sleeper]

Yes. This is the correst way to do it.

 

[Blown88GT]

It appears that the Yellow/White wire is voltage sense. Technically, this is incorrect, but it will function, but maybe not as well as it could or should. Voltage sensing should be at the battery terminal because at higher current loadings, the voltage at the battery terminal is slightly lower than the voltage at the alternator terminal, due to IR drop in the heavy gage wire (looks like 4AWG). Very little current flows in the sense wire, so it's wire gage is not relevant.

 

[timewarped1972]

thanks again for all the info.....
looks like different people have different ways of doing it depending on weather or not your keeping some of the old wiring or starting from scratch......
one thing for sure, regardless of how people do it, ford sure didn't do it right.......lol...
i'm actually surprised how many years they used these 2g alternators and didn't have a re-call...
anyway, looks like i have all the info for doing it the safest way.....i'm surprised there isn't a sticky yet on 3g conversion since about everyone who owns one of these has to do it unless they have no heat or air and only drive with no headlights on...

 

[HISSIN50]

It appears that the Yellow/White wire is voltage sense. Technically, this is incorrect, but it will function, but maybe not as well as it could or should. Voltage sensing should be at the battery terminal because at higher current loadings, the voltage at the battery terminal is slightly lower than the voltage at the alternator terminal, due to IR drop in the heavy gage wire (looks like 4AWG). Very little current flows in the sense wire, so it's wire gage is not relevant.

And the man arrives (for those that might not be familiar, this is Mr Monte Smith, as referenced in 8950HO's earlier post).

 

[timewarped1972]

i was just out looking at my selenoid, is it the sinlge yellow wire with the fuse link thats the old power wire that comes from the black n orange's??

 

[HISSIN50]

i was just out looking at my selenoid, is it the sinlge yellow wire with the fuse link thats the old power wire that comes from the black n orange's??

Can you tell the gauge of the yellow wire? If it is 10 AWG, that sounds like a different wire (it is a distribution wire of sorts - it powers a handful of other links). I have an '88 BTW, so wire colors might have changed. I will defer to others answering that one.

Good luck and bump for ya.

 

[timewarped1972]

i have only 3 wires going to my positive selenoid post. the red battery, a yellow, which looks about 10 awg or about what those black wires with orange stripe are, and then a green one, thats smaller than the yellow....maybe 12 or 14 awg.
the only other things that are on that post is that little aluminum regulator looking box that has two wires going to it ( what is that thing anyway?) a white with red stripe and a blue.
so i'm thinking it's gotta be either that yellow or green wire, that green seems too small to be a power wire but.....
i'll have to look in the manual or on line and see if i can find a schematic unless some one knows off the top of their head.
i don't know why they'd go from black with orange stripes, to one wire, then again into another one....maybe for the fusable line i dont know.....
would an ohm meter work? by touching the black and oranges and then the individual wires on the selenoid to see which completes the circuit?
in any case i'm not worried about it at this point i have done what i need, i'm just waiting for the power wire to arrive, but i am curious as to which wire on the selenoid are the old power wire from the alt.

 

[HISSIN50]

i have only 3 wires going to my positive selenoid post. the red battery, a yellow, which looks about 10 awg or about what those black wires with orange stripe are, and then a green one, thats smaller than the yellow....maybe 12 or 14 awg.
the only other things that are on that post is that little aluminum regulator looking box that has two wires going to it, a white with red stripe and a blue.
so i'm thinking it's gotta be either that yellow or green wire, that green seems too small to be a power wire but.....
i'll have to look in the manual or on line and see if i can find a schematic unless some one knows off the top of their head.
i don't know why they'd go from black with orange stripes, to one wire, then again into another one....maybe for the fusable line i dont know.....
would an ohm meter work? by touching the black and oranges and then the individual wires on the selenoid to see which completes the circuit?
in any case i'm not worried about it at this point i have done what i need, i'm just waiting for the power wire to arrive, but i am curious as to which wire on the selenoid are the old power wire from the alt.

As requested here is a diagram (courtesy of S+2B's - site host, and Tom Moss - diagram author). Note that it is for an '88.

Good luck.

 

[timewarped1972]

thanks, according to that it's the green, i'll test it.......my god that wire is small for a power wire, lol, i'm thinking disconnecting those al together isn't a bad idea.......

 

[Blown88GT]

And the man arrives (for those that might not be familiar, this is Mr Monte Smith, as referenced in 8950HO's earlier post).

It's been a while.

 

[8950HO]

It's been a while.

Nice to meet you sir..

 

[troyGT03]

so, with that harness you dont have to hack or cut/splice your original harness??? if so... i am buying a 3g this week. i am trying to get a 3g on a fox body. sorry to hijack.