More Power Basic Info Thread

final5-0 · Aug 14, 2009

Hello fellow Gear heads

Would you less experienced folk be interested in a thread about ……
Basic Info to make more power?

I would take the position of a moderator to keep the thread focused
and
I’d offer my findings from dealing with Ford Hot Rods for quite some time now

My idea of this thread would be for us to deal in facts only

Questions … of course … Would be welcome
but
I want to keep the thread focused upon facts

I'd want everybody to feel free to get involved in the discussion

I'd want everybody to feel like they can ask ANY question ……
without ANY negative comments or that kind of thing

I'd like to start off with the most widely used Application

How to make more power from my 94-95 GT?

Cobra Folk … You already have Hot Rod parts from the factory
and
I do wanna focus in on all it means to have a Cobra
but
Not at first in this thread

I feel we need to focus on these parameters at the start because
most folk fall into this camp

Daily Driver
OEM short block or 306
NA only

Later on ……
We can talk about Cobra’s

Power Adders
Strokers
And all the rest

Another Thing

What to expect if I go to this range or that range of performance

I hope ALL LEVELS of experienced folk get involved here :Word:

I also want us to not … Just accept things because that is what we have
always heard .. SO ... If some of you have Doubts or Questions ...
You need to SPEAK UP

anyway

There You Have It

Is this something any of you would like to be involved with

Grady

Chythar · Aug 14, 2009

Very generous of you Grady, you're one of the nicest folk I've seen on here. I admit I do know quite a bit about our pony cars, but I haven't delved much into the engine itself. My question is more on the pitfalls of making more power, or things/combinations to avoid. I've read many threads where someone has done a h/c/i yet they LOST power. Could you give some examples of how this can happen and what to look for to (hopefully) avoid this problem?

final5-0 · Aug 14, 2009

Sure Matt

We can talk about anything

I just thought I would start out on the ground floor ... So to speak

And then ... build a solid foundation based upon facts & experience

And then go from there to various ways to make more power

Grady

earleys94gt · Aug 14, 2009

I think this is a great idea.

As you said Grady, this can be a way to get some power information out to some of the newer guys.

Probably some focus on the more popular applications/mods, and the power gain, or the expected gain from these mods. This might be an easy way to answer the many "How much power..." threads there have been recently.

302GTS · Aug 14, 2009

Definitely a good idea, Grady! I think it'd be cool to include some basic h/c/i combos, such as upgrading to GT40 parts for us GT/GTS owners, along with basic bolt-ons/free gains like removing the silencer, advancing the timing, or running a shortbelt.

blksn955.o · Aug 14, 2009

Well I started with a 100% bone stock 94 GT 5spd with 59k miles when I got it in 99.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
First good track pass with american thunder cat back and a K&N filter (I pulled the air silencer that is how bone stock it was) was a 15.2.

That same day at the track I did a tune up. New cap, rotor, plugs and wires. Set the timing to 14*

Best time at the track that day was 14.9. First time at any 1/4 track as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2nd time to the track I had 3.73 gears ran a 14.6 @ IIRC 94-95mph

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 3rd trip to the track I added a set of underdrive pulleys (mac brand). Ran a 14.3 @ 96-97mph. I ran into an issue with the alt. pulley causing charging issues. I swapped to the stock alt. pulley and no issues since and its been 5-7yrs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power adder alert*** if this needs to be cut down and added when this thread gets to that level I am fine with that. Just noting my mods/results and in what order with an otherwise 100% stock pan to maf 94 gt 302.

I then added a pieced together compucar n2o wet kit running 125hp jets. I added a MSD Digital6+ to remove timing when the n2o was activated as to allow me to run 14* while off the bottle and 9-10* while running the 125hp shot. Ran a 13.1 @ 107

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the above passes were on the same street radial brand, make, model Potenza RE910 245/50?/16 (IIRC) tires. I found the sweet spot was to set tire press from 24-27psi spin slightly just to clean the tires and avoiding the water box. I held the rpm at 2k at the line and dumped getting an avg 2.0 60ft with a best at low 1.9 (1.92 IIRC). I shifted at 5k rpm by the stock tach.

revhead347 · Aug 14, 2009

My Mustang ran 14.1 bone stock..... Paper air filter.

My first mod of choice is a shifter. 302s really like the giggle gas.

Kurt

Husky44 · Aug 15, 2009

Thanks Grady! You're the man!

I like the idea of staying stock block, pan to MAF for this discussion.

My mods are listed in my sig, but here's my question: Most of these were added by the PO. I've advanced timing to 13*, new plugs, etc, but never had this one "tuned". I'm not sure if I'm leaving any power on the table, and further not sure if there's anything else to be had without going HCI or forced induction (which I'm not inclined to do with this car).

I've also pulled the A/C and smog.

Is it worth having it tuned, with the setup I'm running? Are there any other relatively minor upgrades/changes that would give me noticeable street performance increases? I'm not interested in 1/4 mile times. Just having a quick street car that I'm getting full performance from.

final5-0 · Aug 15, 2009

OK Folks

Remember ...

Our focus is very basic or general stuff and we are gonna
start out on the ground floor with a Daily Driven Stock GT

With a Stock or OEM GT ..........

Lets look at the following topics to start off

What do we have?
What are our possibilities?
What are our expectations?
and
Why a plan is ... absolutely ... positively ... A must have :Word:
If you wanna have a successful combo with minimum cash outlay

What do we have

or
Where are we ... Starting out on our quest for more power

Well ... We got a 94 or 95 Stang thats got a stick or auto trans

Those with sticks got a bit more hp
cause
An auto eats up a bit more hp

That is just how it is ... so ... if power is a priority and you are looking
to buy a Stang ... a stick trans could be an item high up on the short list

Now ... A stick trans GT is gonna put down around 185 to the wheels

Staying with the original info above ......
We got an OEM block to bolt on NA hot rod parts

If you look at the rwhp hp/tq curves of a little stocker you see .......
Torque starts to drop off at 3K rpm & HP at 4125

You folk with not too much experience might not relate to that data
therefore
Same block with Alum heads/aftermarket intake/custom cam shows ......

Torque drop off point of 4500 rpm & HP at 5500 (no this is not my GT)

What is important to see here is the extended range of hp/tq

This h/c/i combo peaked 326/341 with well chosen supporting items

Again ... the focus in NOT just on peak power
but
The idea of rasing AND extending the rpm range of power

What are our possibilities?

Well ... Some are gonna bring up 400+ rwhp blown/turbo combo here
but
We are talking Stock sb and NA cause most peeps got that to work with

Simply Put ... We got two basic performance levels of OEM block NA combos
1) GT 40 stuff or OEM parts based combo
2) Aftermarket stuff

My research has shown a ballpark DynoJet SAE rwhp range of ....
1) 245 to 285
2) 285 to 315

Yes ... Some from both camps have gone beyond that range
but
Those are the exceptions and NOT the norm

Please ... Please ... Don't misunderstand our idea here

NA only ... Daily Driven ... Something with EXCELLENT street manners

Side Note:
I do wanna get more serious ... Just a bit later in the thread

OK ... Lets move on here

What are our expectations?

We all wanna do stuff (mods) that makes a difference we can feel

I feel
You won't feel 5 rwhp
A 10 rwhp gain will be a subtle difference

I believe you gotta find about 15 rwhp
before
You REALLY feel a difference and KNOW you are making progress

Now ... having said that

That my friends ... is why

Bolt ons don't really do squat
well
They do profusely drain your wallet

Allow me to use a little analogy to explain the futility of bolt ons

Our focus is a section of Garden Hose with constant pressure

It goes without saying ... 3/4 inch will pass more than 1/2 inch

How about thinking the 1/2 inch = our little stocker Stang
and
The 3/4 inch = our h/c/i Stang

We bolt on exhaust stuff which is = to 3/4 inch hot rod parts
We bolt on tb or maff or rr's which also are 3/4 inch hot rod parts

Only problem is
We find ourselves asking the Q ... Where is the power

The middle section of our hose (h/c/i) is still 1/2 inch
thus
Not much progress on our way to our quest for more power

Now ... You may be thinking
I'm against upgrading parts or doing bolt on mods

Here is where we get into the last part of this first post from me

Why a plan is ... absolutely ... positively ... A must have :Word:
If you wanna have a successful combo with minimum cash outlay

You gotta think differently from the masses about bolt ons !!!

Its true ...
1) They are easy to install
2) They can be done as budget allows
3) They deliver X amount of hp according to the mags and TV shows
4) They are gonna be needed sooner or later if you go the h/c/i route

Here are my findings about bolt ons

1) Easy don't make them high hp gain mods

2) True ...
But if you keep spending your hard earned money on stuff that doesn't
make any power ... you have a good chance of getting discouraged
and you will not obtain your goal

3) Gimme a Break
Them boys are a story tellin bunch of folk
You most likely will only get 1/2 of what they propose

4) Here ... RIGHT HERE ... is where you wanna use some ... Wisdom :Word:

You know that plan we talked about above

The plan needs to be a LONG TERM plan

Buy your hot rod parts (bolt ons if you prefer ) that are gonna work
well with your h/c/i later on

That way ... You don't have to buy stuff twice

Well

That ought be enough material
To get you guys that are just getting started in this endeavor of making
more power to thinking and posting back with questions & comments

Anybody that feels I stumped my toe
or
I forgot something
or
You just take issue with what I posted up here

Feel free to jump in and get involved

Grady

turbogt · Aug 15, 2009

I think I have done well in my modding so I don't have to buy anything twice and each part bought will help me get to my eventual goal..

I read all the time in the magazines about the 5 different engine combos some guy went thru because he was never happy..

I can afford to do it ONCE... If I were to do if 5 times, I might as well buy a viper for the same price lol..

Everything I have ever done to the car has been part of plan and have thought about what is coming down the road so everything goes together with minimal problems..

Venom351R · Aug 15, 2009

I have a question.. *raises hand*

is it possible to up my compression w/ out doing pistons? I'm currently at approx 9:0:1 and would like a little bump up. Can heads swaps do anything as far as upping the compression some or am I stuck where I am unless the pistons are changed?

Chads95GT · Aug 15, 2009

You can have the heads milled some and possibly run a thinner head gaskets, but be sure to check the piston to valve clearance. check with a machine shop or engine builder on how much can be milled off your current heads. this will raise your compression some, but it wont get you into the 10:1 area.

Venom351R · Aug 16, 2009

I didn't think it would a little bump would be nice though. My pistons are currently notched but Im not sure by how much. I want to run Trickflow heads so they need to be notched anyway but I dont know if I could get away w/ taking any off the heads, may just have to live w/ what I have for now.

Thanks

GTA_V6_Mustang · Aug 16, 2009

There are also exceptions. I have seen most sn's put down 180-190hp and around 280 torque. However then you have the freaks like mine that put down 225hp and 300torque to the wheels with only a catted x-pipe. And I attribute that to something anyone can do. Just keep the car running great.

To do that you should do these things

Use a throttle body and combustion chamber cleaning kit to keep airflow as smooth as possible. I use a 3 part kit that comes with a bottle that goes in the tank, a spray that you use in the throttle body to clean out very well, and a can (like seafoam) that you feed threw a vacuum line to clean the air passages piston tops and valves. This believe it or not makes a big difference.

Then you have makeing sure your MAF is clean using a suitable MAF cleaner, that again helps a big deal.

A new fuel filter helps so that optimum fuel pressure and flow is always present.

Fresh spark plugs, I use 1 stage colder plugs by NGK and they seem to work great.

New cap, rotor, cables, and coil.

of course a K&N filter and removing the silencer is great as well.

A new PCV valve and grommet is pretty good thing to do also since most dont realize this but that is a pretty common area for an unobvious vacuum leak. Most aftermarket grommets and PCV valves dont seal perfectly so what I found does great is take the grommet outside and wrap it up pretty well in teflon tape and that will actually create a great seal that will be tight in the intake and keep the PCV valve seated pretty well. Also that crankcase breather filter under the PCV Valve should be there since a lot of people who replace the intake forget to put it there. It has a purpose leave it there and if its full of oil replace it. lol.

For those of you who go with high flow cats or off road cats and dont have emmissions you should ditch the air pump and accompanying hardware to shed some weight and help with the parasitic loss of the belt driven accesories.

And again I dont care what anyone says but a good set of aluminum underdrive pulleys will help greatly and you should feel the difference.

Ok well at the moment thats all I can think of but yea.

final5-0 · Aug 16, 2009

Well

I kinda thought more peeps who wanted to deal with basic stuff
would make themselves known and participate here

I can only come to the conclusion

Not as many starting off in this hobby folk are around as I thought
or
Somehow or the other ... They don't feel comfortable posting here

I assure you ... This place is not like most other places

Nobody here is gonna flame anybody, make it seem as they should know
more than they really do, or anything like that

I can only offer to help and try to stimulate a discussion that I believe
would be beneficial to a target group as stated above

I feel not only would knowledge/experience be shared
but
A wasteful outlay of cash might be avoided for such a person as well

Honestly ... I had hoped to learn a thing or two myself
but
That ain't gonna happen if just a few peeps post up stuff

If I don't see much more interest

I'll not waste my time and other folks time with a thread such as this

Grady

diponyou50 · Aug 16, 2009

well i would have asked but im "cobra folk" haha

anyways ive been looking at getting a pmas meter.
now if i go ahead and get me a 76mm meter for my 24's what kind of result can i expect? good/bad?

i know technically you dont need one until around 290rwhp but i can either waste my money on this or go waste it on beer

also...

i have a 75mm accufab tb. i know that technically i dont need this either but i have it.
if i bolt it on what will i see?

Venom351R · Aug 16, 2009

Its also the weekend Grady, not a lot of activity on the weekends especialliy in the summer time when its nice out

diponyou50 said:
well i would have asked but im "cobra folk" haha

anyways ive been looking at getting a pmas meter.

now if i go ahead and get me a 76mm meter for my 24's what kind of result can i expect? good/bad?

i know technically you dont need one until around 290rwhp but i can either waste my money on this or go waste it on beer

also...

i have a 75mm accufab tb. i know that technically i dont need this either but i have it.

if i bolt it on what will i see?

Using both of those you will get much better air flow to your engine accufab makes really good TB and PMAS makes really good meter. Will be a great match

JJ95GTID · Aug 16, 2009

Grady I think most things have been said

Underdrive pulleys (for some the alternator pulley causes charging issues at idle like mine so I just left the stock pulley in place).

Bumping the timing and running higher octane fuel.

I did those to my stock engine and saw an improvement from 15.6sec in the 1/4mile to 15.1sec.

BUT!!! I did find that my initail timing was set at 8* so I attribute most of the .5sec gain to advancing the timing to 12*.

For me the most gain in performance comes from 3 parts: heads, midpipe and intake.

I bolted aluminum heads on the stock engine and nothing else and saw an instant improvement in my 1/4mile times of .40secs.

Using the old saying of every tenth gained in the 1/4mile is 10hp I saw a gain of approximately 40rwhp.

What a coincidence. I had bolted on FRPP Y303 heads which were advertised as a 40hp gain. Not bad for $724 investment.

The next big improvement was the catted 2.5" X-pipe. Dropped another .16sec in the 1/4mile.

I then replaced the stock intake for an Explorer intake with a PP elbow.

The intake was good for a drop of another .36sec in the 1/4mile.

If you are keeping track that is .92sec in the 1/4mile attributed to just those 3 items.

I did bolt on a cold air intake tube, 2.5" catback, BBK equal length headers and 1.7:1 roller rockers and saw some power gains with those but nothing compared to the 3 parts I mentioned above.

I currently don't run any tuning devices or piggyback chips.

I run all emissions equipment, power steering and A/C.

With suspension mods, gears, good engine maintance, stickier tires and lots of practice I am now in the 13.8sec range at the dragstrip.

Pokageek · Aug 16, 2009

65mm FRPP TB was the BEST mod besides gears in terms of FEEL and performance I ever made to my 306.

final5-0 · Aug 16, 2009

Venom351R said:
Its also the weekend Grady, not a lot of activity on the weekends especialliy in the summer time when its nice out

You bring up a good point

As for me being in Texas

It ain't nice out

Its just plain ole HOT

Grady

More Power Basic Info Thread

final5-0

Mustang Master

Chythar

Recently finished repairing my rear

final5-0

Mustang Master

earleys94gt

Active Member

302GTS

If you need herpes, I'm your man!

blksn955.o

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Husky44

final5-0

Mustang Master

turbogt

Member

Venom351R

Chads95GT

Member

Venom351R

GTA_V6_Mustang

Active Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

diponyou50

Member

Venom351R

JJ95GTID

Active Member

Pokageek

Active Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

Similar threads

More Power Basic Info Thread

Mustang Master

Recently finished repairing my rear

Mustang Master

Active Member

If you need herpes, I'm your man!

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Mustang Master

Member

Member

Active Member

Mustang Master

Member

Active Member

Active Member

Mustang Master

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency