More RWHP ... Describe it !!!

[final5-0]

I see so many come on here and talk about combo's with h/c/i
and
A power adder on top of that as well

I got a sneaking suspicion

Many here don't have much of a way to relate
What its like to have a combo that makes significantly more power

We all know the average age here is fairly young
so
I say to those of you who have gone ... far beyond ... typical bolt-ons

Lets give the less experienced ... A way to more better relate

I was thinking about a thread based around a focus of ........
specific descriptions about ......

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad

You know ... how it performs in the categories of
power
drivability
reliability

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY
or
Did it turn out to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected
so
Come on now ... be honest here about gas mileage, drivability, etc

Lets place ourselves in defined power level categories like .....

300rwhp to 350rwhp

350rwhp to 400rwhp

400rwhp to 500rwhp

500rwhp and up

So ... I ask all of you
Do you think a thread of discussion like this ........
Might help some of the less experienced members here

Grady

 

[Stanger007]

I think this is a great thread type.

Being honest is going to make this thread killer. Most people just shrug away an idle issue or bucking. It's also easy to look back on a project and say how easy it was to do when in reality you hit big roadblocks.

I'll post up my combos later this weekend, as it has really grown from a 15.0 to a 14.5 to a 14.0 to a 12.3 and now to hopefully somewhere in the 11s.

It's been fun, not many regrets thus far though but I think that comes from being on my third mustang, so I had an idea of what I wanted and did not want.

Wes

 

[final5-0]

I'd be in the 300 to 350rwhp power level with my h/c/i NA combo

Well .. Its is true ... I came a bit short of the minimum power level but I've
upgraded the tb and meter. It now pulls noticeably harder from mid range
and even the more so at the higher rpm's so I feel confident it is over the
300rwhp benchmark at this time so I don't feel all that too unworthy
about being a participant here.

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

I turned all the wrenches and did all the tuning on the combo myself.
I had a lot of fun with the whole experience.

Not much bad stuff while building the combo

I guess the extending of the wire harness for the LT's was the most hassle.
I had concerns about more connections so I did the cut & solder thing for
known ... trouble free connections.

I used Fox VC's as my stud Scorpion 1.6 roller rockers were quite large.
A little material removal with a die grinder from the inside bolt bosses, oil
splash guard baffle doo-dad re-work, and oil filler tube modification was
required ... but ... the entire process was not all that bad and took less
than an hour to make it all happen.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

It was expected ... The additional power from the hot rod parts over
came the tiny and barely adequate cooling system of a stock Stang.
The fact I live in Texas was no help as well. I did upgrade to a Fulidyne
radiator and high volume Stewart water pump. Problem solved!

I did tons of research about what others had successfully done about
drivability with self tuning interfaces ... but ... after starting the combo
up for the very first time ... Well ... I had my doubts.

The cam ... It was a good bit more radical than I expected. I was not
prepared for that amount of lope. It was pig rich and you could not
stay in the garage when it was at idle. It stalled, bucked, and every
other bad thing you've seen witten about drivability issues ... It had
em all ... lol.

The good thing is ... a bit of self tuning made it all good to go!

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad

I'll give a power description first ... then drivability next

First gear
It should be no surprise .......
I can't go but about half throttle in first or things get sideways in a hurry

Second gear
If I short-shift first and slowly go to the floor in second gear at around
1500 rpm ... when the rpm's climb to 2500 or a bit before ...the tires
break loose ... however ... On concrete ... I almost always can hook up.

Third gear
I usually can hook good in third but occasionally, the tires won't hold
and it just depends upon the road surface

Forth gear

My favorite gear because of the focus I placed upon a strong low end
Well ... I'll just say my little GT rocks my world when I'm cruising
around town in forth gear at about 1800rpm or so and slowly go to
the floor without shifting. I love it ...lol

Power band was extended with the cam and it pulls hard to 6200rpm
where I usually don't exceed with the heavy roller rockers and all that.

As for drivabilty ... I got WAY more help from the ability to self tune
than I would have EVER expected. I mean ... except for a bit of cam
lope ... my 95GT behaves like little stocker Stang in every way.

I was even able to tame down the amount of cam lope a good bit with the
adjustment of several pcm values. I sure did appreciate this added benefit.
If you use the link in my sig ... you can hear how nice and steady it idles.

You know ... how it performs in the categories of
power
drivability
reliability

I did cover the power and drivabilitly above so now about the reliability

I would not feel uncomfortable about driving my Stang anywhere.
The little woman and I have taken it on several trips of like 300 to
600 miles round trip and we had no trouble at all.

I could drive it every day as it is reliable enough to be sure but I choose
not to do so. It does attract a bit more attention with the cam lope at lights
than I would want to put up with on a daily basis and it uses gas at a rate
that is more than I want to deal with as well.

More about the gas mileage ... It gets between 19 & 20 mpg at cruise
speeds of 70 to 80 mph so that ain't bad. Around town ... I just can't
help it ... With its really great power band ... I drive too aggressive
to get any kind of decent milage ... so ... I'm trying to say those 30's
get thirsty when you work em ... lol.

Bottom Line Here Is ..............
I've built many combos ... so ... this little GT ani't my first rodeo

Its a bit over the top and the mileage is a bit much to be a Daily Driver
I mean ... I built it to be a Weekend Toy ... from the very get go!

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

If I did another aftermarket h/c/i combo I'd do the same except .........
I'd do a port job on the lower or maybe a Holley intake for better flow
and
I'd go more aggressive on the cam specs
and
I'd bump up to 4.10 rear gears

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY
or
Did it turn out to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected
so
Come on now ... be honest here about gas mileage, drivability, etc

I've answered a good bit above but I will say this .........

While I've built countless SBF combos in the past ....
This was my first with a pcm controlling everything and fuel injection
with a long runner intake ... so ... a long way from the old days of carbs
and distributors with points in em ... lol

I had a plan for the following .......
The custom cam would give me the power band of my desired specifications
The self tuning ability would allow me to tame drivability issues

The plan turned out ... MUCH BETTER ........ than I would have ever
dreamed it could.

Its reliable ... but to me ... Not practical to be a daily driver

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

My combo has gone from basic with research into what would get me the lowest ET for the least outlay of cash at one time. I started with my BONE stock 94 mustang and went from a 15.2 the first pass to a 14.9 by the end of the day. Around 500$ later I ran 13.1 on the jug and 14.3 N/A with pullies and gears (the gears were a gift).

The combo now is more of a play thing for me, drivability has been good for the most part but a few little idle issues recently popped up but with the tweecer that should be easy to fix when I get around to it. More RWHP is not always the goal. That is why I still went with the bottle. My goal is a min. of 275+ rwhp and good drivability/mpg when my foot is not in it, if I want more another 150-175 hp from a jug and that puts me in a fairly good league of car (400+rwhp club) and that is all I really care to have on the street. Its nice to boost always there or motor always there but I wanted the choice. To am looking at 400+rwhp on production heads, intake a mild cam, solid shortblock and alittle tweecing sounds cool to me.

My combo now is almost all stuck stuff but every part is worked the heads are milled ALOT and one thing people need to realize is that the lower intake needs to be milled as well at a point and IIRC that is after being milled 35 or greater.

The biggest thing I learned from building this motor is valve train geometry and the importance of it. It is well worth the time to do it and read the proper way to do it, as well as ask for help with it. I think I killed a few lifters from running way to long of a PR and plan on replacing them this winter.

The car is not a DD but I do and have every intention of this combo lasting a good while. Great oil press at startup and warmed up, cool temps (even with the stock rad. for now), mpg are great too. I took it on a 100mi one way cruise this summer and the only hickup was I found a bad trans. tailshaft seal that caused a little smoke at long stops. I got over 22mpg on the long cruise and even got into it a few times.

I have had issues with the tuning and building but those seem to be sorted out now and power is building with every tweec and change I make. The last dyno I was on made just over 250rwhp on a 99* day with very high humidity and fairly low timing, the drop in power production over 4k is part of the reason I think I killed a few lifters...that and I can push the plunger down by hand when there is no press. on the valvetrain on a few.

The one thing I can say to anyone no matter how far they have gone with the hobby. No one knows everything about everything and asking a question is the most imortant tool to fix this problem. This is a hobby to me, not a lifestyle, not a job, not something I make a living at...but something I just enjoy doing when I get the chance. No matter if its chatting/hanging out with my gear head buds or wrenching my goal is to have fun and enjoy it I think that is the #1 problem people loss sight of with this stuff.

 

[cbarr300]

I was at the 400-500 level with a vortech s-trim.

Originally Posted by final5-0 View Post
1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

nothing really horrible. The main problem was running a shortbelt. It would always squeal because of the placement the vortech bracket gives the alternator. I clocked the tensioner a bit and so far so good.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

wellllll, 408rwhp

not a bad outcome at all. It was exactly what I expected..and then some. The vortech turned the car into a rocket and I soon found that a weak point was my tires..which aren't horrible but not the best. If I hadn't already done suspension mods...that'd be another weak point. The only bad I can think of...was trying to get the tune on the money...it just took time.

Quote:
3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad
Power wise...well...

1st gear: needless to say it might as well not be there

2nd gear...anything past 3/4 and it was burning

3rd gear...Trying to catch third was a dirty word...it spins purty bad going into third.

4th gear...The fun gear ..no traction issues and I get to feel that low-end and top-end power

drivability wise...it was a pain to get the tune down...just cuz I was new to the tweecer. After a while I had a rock solid idle and my a/f was down tight....with no blown head gaskets. It did wanna buck every now and then...but I got that taken care of.

Reliability: Wellll, I had a lot of electrical issues...mainly due to my pip in my MSD dizzy...other than that it was great.

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

more boost with a dart block

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY
or
Did it turn out to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected
so
Come on now ... be honest here about gas mileage, drivability, etc

It really didn't get outta hand at all. I think it was perfect for a daily...as long as you like going to gas stations. It really wasn't horrible though. I was knocking off around 16-18 mpg in the city and 24 highway...not horrible at all for what it is.

heck, I drive it everyday.

btw...all this is moot now cuz I just dropped a 331 in with less compression...once I get the blower rebuilt and put back on there I'll let yall know what's up.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

I'll chime in about my turbo build

I had gt40p heads/crane 2031 cam/typhoon intake with twin turbos pushing 10 psi

I would say a bit over 400 rwhp

I built it myself.....which takes ALOT of time to get all the little parts dialed in, plus i built it twice, once rear mount, once front. I knew what I was getting into with the build, and I find it fun to do stuff like that.
The good:
The car was fun to drive, had a really cool factor with the intercooler in the front and the bov and turbo spool sound, and even pulled in around 20 mph highway...and passed emissions with my stock h-pipe(cats). I drove it for over a year as a daily driver....just the problems listed below
The bad:
First of all I should have used rebuilt turbos...mine leaked oil and when you fired it up it would smoke alot.....and exhaust leaks under the hood made me choke with the windows shut. Next, i basically couldent change the sparkplugs, and wires w/out removing ALOT of junk....a real pain when wires keep burning. Driveability was pretty good, but i was using a dyno chip and couldet dial in the small stuff like bucking, and cold idle, etc. Definatly took more maintance....making sure stuff was tight, always running premium gas, ALWAYS listening for knock and having the wideband in the corner of my eye while getting on it. Also it sounded horrible....lost the mustang sound.

I ended up getting fed up with all the PITA stuff and went back to N/A....I much happier now, and its just as fast with the nitrous....I will be getting a supercharger soon though.

 

[Mustangless]

I think I am in the 300rwhp to 350rwhp

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

This is a DIY turbo setup.

Build started off fun, but things never seem to go right when working on cars. Things did not want to fit and it took a while to finish.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

Out come has been good so far.

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad

It is nice to drive, with all the turbo sounds if everything is working right (no exhaust leaks)


The power is nice, always could be more but it will pull for sure. Went from going low 15s at 94 to high 12s at 109 with some sorry tires.

Drivability, could be rated okay. I need to work more with tweecer to get little things going good. MPG has decreased alittle more than I hoped, but I think with my tune it will get better. The last few fill ups have been 11.5, which is a mix between city/hwy/track, but my o2s had not been working either. The best I have gotten is 16 which is a mix between hwy/city/track.

It has been reliable, event though there have been some close calls. Lower radiator hose going south, o2s dying, transmission bit the dust. First regular trip I took in it I burned a fuel line

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

Take longer on building the setup so that it would fit better. I would have gotten an intercooler that is alittle different.

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............

I would consider it an ever day type of car to drive, although I am nervous about things catching on fire. Although nothing has happened like that except for the fuel lines, which are fixed now.

It was alittle more of a challenge the I thought it would be. Things did not fit how I thought they would.

 

[Stanger007]

The goal for my car has always been a very reliable daily driver that is fast and is NOT a hassle. When my wife can't get in my car and drive it without a list of "don't do this" and "if this happens, do this" then I have failed and need to sell it.

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

The single worst thing about my car is the longtubes.

My first set, which I recently swapped out for another, was a set of HTS coated MAC longtubes. They bolted up great, no problems with the headers whatsoever. I've had them on and off a few times and all was good, but boy is it just tight on an automatic convertible. Guys with a T5 don't even know. I was under a T5 car today admiring the ballroom-sized cavities all around the tranny.

I recently swapped for a set of the same header, but Jet Hot coated and they were really tweaked. I had the usual problems of stabbing them in the engine bay (heads were off this time and still had to jack the motor out the car and use a prybar to push it to the side). The flanges on these headers had to be pried around to line up. One tube is ever so slightly resting on the starter. Now that they are in I am happy I've got 'em but sheesh what a PITA. Also, never buy HTS coated headers, go straight to ceramic or Jet Hot (very nice!).

The only other pain with my car was fitting the AFM powerpipe for the S-trim. It is a tight fit into the fenderwell and I had to cutout the fender in a different spot than their instructions said. I am also very anal about how things looked so I wanted the smallest and neatest possible hole. The pipe was too long for my (non-shorty) Lightning mass air, so I really need to trim an inch or two off the end of it because the air filter them sent me rides a little too low to the ground for my taste. Oh yeah and there is no bung for recirculating crankcase vacuum. The elbow they gave with an insert to reduce the size down was garbage and I saw pictures of one guy that had his sucked into the blower and turned his impeller to confetti which then got sent down the engine. I bought a real elbow that is properly sized with no downsizing insert. All this for an expen$ive tube. However, it works as advertised, I can't knock that despite the hassles.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

I think I have lucked out with the most reliable Mustang ever (not saying much I know haha) and projects that always go pretty well. This is my third Mustang to own. Going into this car, I knew exactly what I wanted. It took about a year of looking before I found it. I started with the cleanest, most problem-free car I could.

The car has seen the track many times and very weekly sees quite spirited acceleration. I've had the car for four years now and have driven it every day except for taking it down a week to put the supercharger on and taking it down to upgrade the heads (more on this below).

My first stock runs were in the 15.3 range @ 89mph. Dog slow and pretty typical for a auto 'vert.

Swapping to a 4R70W, converter, exhaust and cobra intake, it did 14.51 at 95 in August heat. Still slow but getting there.

Some better tires (Nittos), experience launching the new transmission setup and cooler air got me consistent 14.0s. I went back another time or two looking for that elusive 13.99 run but never got it. I think I could have tuned it to run that time but I never did take the time to do it. I wasn't as quick with the tuning at that time.

In my opinion, 14.0s are still pretty lethargic even for a street car so my buddy Sam found me a very lightly used S-trim coming off of a Cobra R show car so I picked it up for $1785 shipped. Great guy I got it from, still keep in touch with him to this day. I had never even considered boost, but had instead planned to go 347 h/c/i. After looking at the power #s the n/a 347s were making vs the supercharged guys, the choice was VERY easy.

Another $1k or so of misc stuff (injectors, wideband, tuner, etc) and I was ready for the track again. The car ran low 12s, 12.3 at best. I was out of gear with the 4.10s and was coasting to the traps after I lifted at 6150rpm. This is on the stock longblock, valvecovers never off, 138,000 miles on the engine. Going off the track times and getting it weighed, the power was somewhere around 360-370rwhp.

In the meantime I knew I would break something, either by spinning it so high (I ran it hard on the street too) or by my tuning; I was really pushing the limits of the spark and transmission shifting to wring the most out of it... this was not your "safe" tune I ran every day.

A few months later it was track time again and I decided to really increase the spark to try to get an 11.999 out of the stock stuff. I had run this new aggressive tune on the street for a few weeks. On the first run I was beside a drag car and I think I detonated but I never heard it. My wideband sensor had gone out the night before so I had no wideband data in the datalogs. Regardless, the car was only running 12.4-12.6 and was really laying down at the top of each gear despite the further power tuning I had done to it... I knew something was up. Turns out the heads were lifting, I had an overflowing coolant bottle. I drove the car home from the track, you would never know anything was wrong and I bet I could have drove it as-is for a while as long as I stayed out of the higher boost. Max boost I was seeing was 14PSI.

Back tracking a bit, when I had decided I really wanted to push the car as much as I could, I knew something was gonna give. Like they say, when stuff breaks... "never cry, modify". I started buying new parts for a head gasket swap and also picked up some Track Heat heads and associated pieces. I spent about $1,300 total for the whole deal. I didn't go with a cam just because I wanted to keep the power under 450 at the wheels in an attempt to keep the stock block in one piece. However if I was looking for power it would have been either a TFS1 or custom grind. I had a spare Cobra lower I sent to TMOSS to get ported -- again not looking for huge power gains but wanted to do well with parts I had sitting around.

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad

The car is phenomenal to drive. I really look forward to getting in it, even just to sit in traffic going to work and back. It drives better than stock with NO issues. With the supercharger on the stock longblock, it was a blast. The power was right where I want it, just high enough to let you get rolling so you didn't blow the tires away and then when it hit boost it just plain flew. I am glad I went Vortech, the full boost down low with the roots blowers looks good on paper and burnout contests but I just don't see how it can be very practical how I use my car.

One thing I've figured out is that you HAVE to get real tires. Regular street tires are a joke. Spinning the tires over is good and all but at this point it really is silly how easy my car can turn the tire over, and I have purposely tried to make it NOT spin with the automatic tuning. If you've got a stick then you've got a glorified on/off switch once you get into the mid 300rwhp range, great for burnout contests, not so great for racing. If you're spinning you ain't winnin'. The auto really shines here.

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

I wouldn't do much differently really. I would get Nittos first for daily driving and probably a tuner interface very quickly also. I am really sold on the automatics. If you haven't ridden in a well-matched auto combo you really owe it to yourself. A stick at WOT is sorta herky jerky but an auto is just one constant strong pull. Build it right, tune it good and enjoy.

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY

My car definitely fits the bill, I drive it every single day. It is too fun to just sit and every week it knocks down 17mpg with the heads etc on my daily commute which has increasingly more and more stop and go traffic.

Wes

 

[Grn92LX]

My goal was a turn key, drive anywhere, pump gas street car. I accomplished my goal easily.

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad
The bad: It took a while to get the engine because Rick (rnhperformance) was busy and is a one man show along with his machine shop guy being a one man show I believe. The good: Everything went pretty smoothly with no major road blocks.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad
Outsome was good. Basically started right up first shot but didn't run and idle well due to 2 vacuum leaks. Once I fixed those and played with the tune-up in the PMS, all was pretty well.

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad
It drives fine. Starts up first shot, hot or cold with NO surging or stalling. Thanks to the PMS. You'll get a little bucking if you're barely on the gas cruising along. Not an issue really.

You know ... how it performs in the categories of
power: Its fast and pulls HARD to 7,000 rpm.
drivability: Pretty good considering the size of the cam. Its an FTI custom. To quote Ed, "I've allowed him to go wild"
reliability: Can be driven anywhere with no problems, no overheating or anything. Blew a head gasket this summer due to part throttle detonation from the stock 02's not working correctly thanks to the LT's. Other than that, no problems in 2 and a 1/2 years.

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently
Yes. I would have kept my old combo and worked on it a bit more rather than spending all this money on a fresh 347 build up.

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY
or
Did it turn out to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected
so
Come on now ... be honest here about gas mileage, drivability, etc:

Gas mileage isn't too great. 14-17 I think depending if its local driving or highway. Mileage was uneffected by thr 3.73 to 4.30 swap. It can be daily driven no problem, but I wouldn't in rain or snow. I think many would be afraid to drive it daily though. I don't daily drive it as I dont wanna put all the wear and tear on it.

Lets place ourselves in defined power level categories like .....

300rwhp to 350rwhp

350rwhp to 400rwhp: I' place it in this category but MUCH closer to 400rwhp. I think a full 3" exhaust swap might put it in the 400-500 category.

400rwhp to 500rwhp

500rwhp and up

So ... I ask all of you
Do you think a thread of discussion like this ........
Might help some of the less experienced members here

Yes, it shows what you can do with the right parts and right people. Not all strokers with "big" parts have are "unstreetable". And not all strokers have to be low powered and sub 350hp.


My sig describes the car to a Tee. And yes, its for sale

 

[final5-0]

Good Stuff Guys

Allow me to more clearly explain something about why I posted this thread.

I have gotten quite a few pm from peeps who ask this and that

After talking to them for a while ... It is all too clear ..........

They have never driven a car with
Steep gears
Strong low end
Strong high end
etc etc etc

I'm always thinking like .......

You need to drive my car to have some way to relate to ........
what 300 to the wheels is like
OR
first gear with 373's is not the same on stock and h/c/i Stangs
OR
how a bit more rpm extends the power band and really makes a big difference

They have an understanding or relatability to bolt ons all right
but
They just don't see how differently things can be when you jump from say

A 225-250rwhp bolt-on Stang to 50-75 more rwhp with something like .......

An aftermarket NA h/c/i combo
or
A basic bolt-on combo with a blower

So ... those of you who have not had the opportunity to experience combos
like we are trying to describe here ... Well ... Don't be shy

Here is your chance to ask any Q about these combos you most likely
have been wondering about

This is after all ... The Talk Section of the site

Grady

 

[viridionplague]

anyone care to elaborate on what its like with a redline of 6500-7000 in these cars with a good valvetrain?

or any kind of raises redline

im hoping to go to at least 6500 in the future

 

[Grn92LX]

anyone care to elaborate on what its like with a redline of 6500-7000 in these cars with a good valvetrain?

or any kind of raises redline

im hoping to go to at least 6500 in the future

what are you wanting to know?

 

[turbogt]

hell of a thread grady!!!!! sticky please...

 

[viridionplague]

im wondering if people are seeing a benifit of a redline that high on the street,

any issues with the car, how is it in general?

 

[DDSTANG94]

im wondering if people are seeing a benifit of a redline that high on the street,

any issues with the car, how is it in general?

IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT CAM, HEADS AND INTAKE THEY WILL SEE A GIAN, i WOULD NEVER TAKE A STOCK BOTTOM END 5.0 TO 7000 RPM'S..EVER!!....IF YOU GOT A STOCK 5.0 SPINNG IT TO 6500 IS USELESS AND ACTUAL SLOWING U DOWN BECUSASE THE PEAK POWER IS SOMEWHERE IN THE 4000 RPM RANGE...

 

[m0l0]

I see so many come on here and talk about combo's with h/c/i
and

1) What was encountered during the build of the combo ... good & bad

Good : It was by far most easy than rather another kind of work in the car ( F.E. :Clutch change no need to be cursing under the car and at the same time moving like a snake), also helps a lot to have a engine wash before you start tearing apart the engine

The Bad : You will have to do a lot of round trips to your favorite parts store so keep in mind another car for the unexpected requeriments, you will need some "special" tools like
1.- Steering Pulley Puller ( Must have to remove the supporing bracket )
2.- Thread Chaser ( Must have for redoing the threads on the block acurate torque is a must on any Head swap)
3.- Damper puller ( if you are doing any work on the camshaft this is also a must have)
4.- Fuel Injection Disconnection tool ( not a really must since you can swing away the entire fuel rail but you will be pouring fuel all over the place and you better work on a entirely clean enviroment no fuel lines, no cable harnesses)

Know first what you will need to have dont just beleive what you can need it vital to have all the things you are going to replace ( gaskets, bolts , lubes, antifreeze etc etc.) so in that way you will optimize a lot the time.

I can speak for sure that with everything on hand you can do a full H/C/I swap on a couple of hours.

2) What was the outcome ... good & bad

The outcome could not get any better, everything came just as it should and with the basic EEC mods the car started right away, no idle search no nothing it was runing flawlessly

3) What it is like to drive it ... briefly describe it ... good & bad

You know ... how it performs in the categories of
power
drivability
reliability

Power : Well the increase was noticeable since the first start right now is not that of a drag car since i dont have good wheels and no gears so far (3.08) but uptop really shines and will hang with cars with equal power.

Drivablity : Almost like stock , some times it can have a little of idle surge but is really weird and mostly i will indicate more a dirty maf rather than anything else. Ohh and the stock brakes will never work like stock on a aggressive cam so i can consider a Hydro booster as a really good upgrade along with bigger brakes.

Reliability : This car is more a weekend/trip car i travel almost every weekend more than 300 miles so far since the h/c/i it has more than 15k miles just on normal oil changes and maf cleaning is running like a champ, several track runs made.

4) If you did it again ... what would you do differently

Well a better intake is needed and its odd since most people start with classic bolts on like gears and pulleys but not here, actually i need to put some gears and the pulleys ( not big gains but hey everything helps )

Please not more equal lenght headers, They are not bad but changing a spark plug can become a PITA.

Now ... Lets stick to a combo with a Street Car Application
and
Be very honest and specific about this last topic of discussion

5) Is the car you built ..............
The kind of car you would consider practical to drive EVERYDAY
or
Did it turn out to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected
so
Come on now ... be honest here about gas mileage, drivability, etc

Gas Mileage: The h/c/i i impoved a lot the MPG i dont have numbers here but i can compare on the last trips i have made 19-20 MPG give or take and it was a good improvement from the stock.

Lets place ourselves in defined power level categories like .....

300rwhp to 350rwhp

I cannot be sure how much HP this car has but from the cars i can hang i can estimate arround 300 rwhp give or take some.

 

[Grn92LX]

im wondering if people are seeing a benifit of a redline that high on the street,

any issues with the car, how is it in general?

No issues at all with mine. Everything has to be chosen to work with the combo. Obviously these types of combo's aren't some junk E cam/cobra intake stuff. You need good valve springs and titanium retainers. With my combo, 4.30 gears and aluminum flywheel, 7,000 comes quick

 

[WhiteStallionGT]

I just read everything and my head is going to explode. But very imformative!

 

[final5-0]

anyone care to elaborate on what its like with a redline of 6500-7000 in these cars with a good valvetrain?

or any kind of raises redline

im hoping to go to at least 6500 in the future

Mike has already given some good info
but
Like he said ... he has a purpose built combo
and
That stuff is not normally used on ... typical ... Street Combos

It can be a real rush to drive a high winding sbf

Now ... back to reality

The roller lifters we see these days on 5.0's are V E R Y heavy

You can get a bit more rpm with some better springs
but
Generally speaking ... 6K or just a hair over is about it

Again ... application is a OEM block or a 306 with an over bore
clean up ... but ... we are NOT talking about a purpose built
b&b'ed short block with high dollar valve train and the like

So lets just stick to a 6K redline

Folks ... all this is about a reference of a little stocker Stang :Word:

Come on Peeps .. ......
We all know they start to peter out a bit before 5K

You do up a set of better flowing heads
Better flowing intake and exhaust
and
A cam designed to make power ... close OR all the way to 6K

YOU WILL SEE A B I G DIFFERENCE

I mean ... we're talking about before ... starting to fall on face at 4800
and
Now ... all the way to 6K ... Know what I mean Vern

You've found like 1000 to 1200 rpm

Thats what was meant by ... extending the power band

Or in other words

You not only can wind to 6K with the better valve train

The hot rod parts will allow you to pull hard to that limit :Word:

simply because

You are making hp all the way to 6K

Grady

 

[Black Stampede]

I won't be able to discuss the driveability side of my car right now since it hasn't been tuned yet, but I can talk about the build.

Basically the main thought I have came away with which most people have metioned is that you just need to plan on spending far more than you thought you would. Far more than what the main parts cost. There is always something else to buy whether it is a 10 dollar trip to the parts store or a 100 dollar trip. On top of that there is always something else to do. Granted I redid alot of stuff at once on my car so that makes it harder, but to me there way always something I had left. I would make what I thought was good progress one day thinking I was close to being able to start it, but then nope, I would remember 5 other things I still had to do. It's just a big pain basically. If you get frustrated easy, don't ever plan on doing any major mods to you car, because you will probably drive it into a tree you will be so mad. Well, if it runs haha.

As far as what big hp numbers are like....I have been around 500 rwhp cars for awhile now and they just aren't fast anymore. I realize to most people they are pretty scary, but I am not going to be happy with my car until I get a new block because 525 rwhp to save the block aint very much.

As far as my exact setup, which is a h/c/i 302 with a diy single turbo kit, as much as I like it, it is a pain and I know it. Rio95 my good buddy has the same setup and we designed mine after his. Although overall it is a great setup, I know from his that they have their share of leaks that have to be addressed. To me it is all worth it though because a turbo on a Mustang is the coolest thing ever.

I prolly forgot a bunch of stuff so if anyone is wondering just ask.