motor noise vid inside

cbarr300 · Jan 28, 2008

exactly!

if you can isolate the parts...then it makes diagnosing things a lot easier.

I would check your oil pump shaft.

There's a clip on the shaft..and if the dizzy shaft hits that it won't go down anymore. I had a buddy that had a similar issue with the dizzy not going all the way down. He just took the dizzy and hit it on there kinda hard...and it sorta pushed that clip down so the dizzy ended up sitting flush.

I wouldn't recommend doing that....cuz it's not really the proper way...but it did work and is still working fine 50,000 miles later. Btw, the shaft he used was an ARP piece.

Badazgt. · Jan 28, 2008

if you prime like i told you too and not hear the noice u know its not the pump.... like cbarr said id do that next... hit the oil pump driveshaft easy and continue to hit it harder unitl it sits the disty on correctly

its ok to do stuff the redneck way sometimes

cbarr300 · Jan 28, 2008

its ok to do stuff the redneck way sometimes

Well said bro...

I just like to throw a disclaimer out there...

btw, it was a hell of a lot easier doing it that way than for him to take the pan/pump/etc. out and move that thing down the shaft...and it accomplished the same thing.

BlownFiveLiter · Jan 28, 2008

That noise sounds like something binding up (obviously, huh? ). Since you noted that it only happens with the distributor is installed, I'd say that isolates it as being the culprit. I know the ARP hardened oil pump shafts can be a little on the long side and require removing a little material off the bottom of the distributor shaft, so possibly the Melling shafts share this problem, as well? The only thing I could really suggest is maybe shoot a PM or email to Rick 91GT and see if he's got any experience with the Melling shafts being too long. He builds engines for a living and may be able to offer some insight on the distributor not seating fully due to the oil pump driveshaft.

95PGTTech · Jan 28, 2008

I am going to pull the pan tomorrow, I have three shafts to compare. The one that was on this motor to begin with on the regular melling pump (now a HV), and a spare one randomly in the box.

I do not understand what you guys mean about the clip on the shaft. the clip is on the shaft such that when we had the motor upside down, you can drop the shaft into the distributor hole and it stops it from falling through. then you line the shaft up in the oil pump. from the top, we cannot see the clip.

I am hoping this shaft is slightly longer, and that is causing the bind up sound between the distributor and camshaft. if the distributor is raised even 1/8" like it is, I'm hoping that the teeth are far enough off it's causing the noise. seems like a long shot and a lot higher up than the noise, though.

adam I thought I had an fl1a sitting around but I can't seem to find it, I'm either going to have julia pick one up if she runs by an auto parts tomorrow or steal the old one off your car. maybe get the balancer while I am in there.

cbarr300 · Jan 28, 2008

that could very possibly be where your noise is...sound travels a lot through that metal block.

with that little clip..on my friends we got it to the point where it wouldn't fall through...but after we put the dizzy on top of it...it still sat too high. So he just tapped it down (kinda hard) and it pushed that clip down just enough to get out the way of the dizzy shaft.

this was an arp shaft with an msd dizzy...so it may be a bit diff for him than it is for you.

BlownFiveLiter · Jan 28, 2008

Just a little word of advice, put the balancer on before you try to prime it again. Otherwise, you'll still be wearing oil on the genitals when it comes out the front main seal.

95Vert · Jan 28, 2008

StangGT1995 said:
That noise sounds like something binding up (obviously, huh? ). Since you noted that it only happens with the distributor is installed, I'd say that isolates it as being the culprit. I know the ARP hardened oil pump shafts can be a little on the long side and require removing a little material off the bottom of the distributor shaft, so possibly the Melling shafts share this problem, as well? The only thing I could really suggest is maybe shoot a PM or email to Rick 91GT and see if he's got any experience with the Melling shafts being too long. He builds engines for a living and may be able to offer some insight on the distributor not seating fully due to the oil pump driveshaft.

You beat me to it, that's what I get for not reading through the whole thread.

95PGTTech · Jan 28, 2008

StangGT1995 said:
Just a little word of advice, put the balancer on before you try to prime it again. Otherwise, you'll still be wearing oil on the genitals when it comes out the front main seal.

thanks, I was wondering about that

Adam95GT · Jan 28, 2008

chris i do rember that clip being a tad higher up on the oil pump shaft actually...

cbarr300 · Jan 28, 2008

chris i do rember that clip being a tad higher up on the oil pump shaft actually...

let's hope that's your problem then. That'd be great...cuz that's a pretty easy fix.

good luck man

divit250r · Jan 29, 2008

StangGT1995 said:
Just a little word of advice, put the balancer on before you try to prime it again. Otherwise, you'll still be wearing oil on the genitals when it comes out the front main seal.

Also make sure you have the oil pressure sending port plugged somehow, because it's a geyser too. I covered my front bumper last spring by having that brain fart myself.

Scott

95PGTTech · Jan 29, 2008

divit250r said:
Also make sure you have the oil pressure sending port plugged somehow, because it's a geyser too. I covered my front bumper last spring by having that brain fart myself.

Scott

haha we already have the new oil pressure sensor in, thank god. update:

I could not go to the auto parts store as early as I got up to get a filter and the fl820s I had sitting around do not thread on, so I said lets skip trying to prime the pump and isolate the pump and just drop the pan and see this shaft.

since we have not had the noise since the very first distributor installation, I think that was because of the gap under the distributor and then trying to torque it down with the hold down maybe a binding noise between disty and cam gears. the noise has not happened once with all the changes I've made, but I've also not tried to force the disty in or tighten the hold down anything but with fingers...

so I decided to skip investigating the noise since I can't get it to happen anymore and investigate the shaft issue with the disty sitting so high...

let me know if anyone sees anything they don't like...off comes the pan

pickup tube

pump and shaft are out

comparison of oil pump shafts we have
the far left is a spare one we had
the middle is the one that was on this shortblock when we started this buildup with the regular melling (non high volume) pump
the one on the right is the one that came in the melling high volume pump. I did not move the clips on any.

I squared the bottoms with a straight edge and spaced them out evenly. if anything, the HV one is less than 1/16" longer.

and when I install the distributor when the oil pump and shaft are not in

it still is hard to put in, I think it's because the new lower is so much bigger, but once in the bore it slides in decently easy. I did not clock it, just put it in however it was sitting. when I rotate the motor now, no noise dead quiet. yay

sage2k · Jan 29, 2008

My buddy says you may have the wrong cam in that car.
Some cams came with different cam gears and yours may have the incorrect one for your distributor.

EDIT: At least thats what he thought till he saw the new pics with the dist sitting flush.

95PGTTech · Jan 29, 2008

sage2k said:
My buddy says you may have the wrong cam in that car.
Some cams came with different cam gears and yours may have the incorrect one for your distributor.

EDIT: At least thats what he thought till he saw the new pics with the dist sitting flush.

I was just going to ask that...lol.
I do believe we have it isolated to a shaft, pump, or distributor problem (maybe something in the bottom of the distributor there). Personally, I'd rather try all three and see if one works, I really don't want to grind down one of them. That will most certainly work, but there is always the correct part for the application and that is what I prefer to do. Because sometimes you think that grinding down the shaft will work, and it does, but it's just a bandaid for the real problem which you never find. And down the road you have more issues, with the motor in the car.

Adam95GT · Jan 29, 2008

the block was in a 95' its poka's old 306... ill call him up l;ater

95PGTTech · Jan 29, 2008

success! Thank god for Bulk Uploader on Photobucket!

I reinstalled the oil pump drive shaft and oil pump from the bottom with the distributor already in. Fearing it would be pushed back up, I did not install the distributor hold down.

As soon as I started to torque the bolts on the oil pump, the distributor started walking back up. Grr.....

So I pulled it all back out and did the same with the shaft that was on the shortblock before with the other Melling oil pump, and...

no noise, no binding, etc.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

95PGTTech · Jan 29, 2008

thanks for all the help so far gentlemen, but I have another favor or two to ask:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=7322227#post7322227

Adam95GT · Jan 29, 2008

Damn... so it wasnt a broken rod... thats mest up man... you made me leave class and call you.... Your an ass.... But it was funny as hell...

95PGTTech · Jan 29, 2008

Adam95GT said:
Damn... so it wasnt a broken rod... thats mest up man... you made me leave class and call you.... Your an ass.... But it was funny as hell...

well I didn't know you would leave class...but yes I am a tool.

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