Motor Swap, You Decide!
- Thread starter hotpony
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I am facing a similar question with the 302 engine in my 68 GT 350. Couple of cracked piston skits in the 68 motor. Do I swap that motor with a 347 crate engine or spend about the same and fix the current motor. I have decided to go with keeping the current motor but tweaking it to get the HP you're looking for. I found a recommended engine builder who guaranteed me a minimum of 350HP out of this block. We are discussing additional tweaks and how deep my pocket is. Love to put a set of Aluminum heads on it. The heads are an obstacle to HP on these small blocks. I have been talking with Flo-Tek out of Evansville IN. $299 for a bare head with the specs I would spend close to that cleaning up the stock heads.
Sounds like you HAVE to change the motor, that stinks. I think I have decided to swap the motor out after I finish my thesis project. Got about a month left but I will have some extra time to spend with the car at that point. I will preserve all the original equipment in case I ever sell the car. Now just need to find a transmission to go with this combo.
Here's how I would look at this car from a buyers standpoint.
My opinion is along the similar line as mike 5L5.
It has to be all quality parts, no knockoffs, no SVE, UPR etc.
A DSS long block is not going to be a good selling point, they weren't exactly synonymous with quality or high end.
If i'm not mistaken the "cnc block" thing, was just a marketing ploy to sell unsuspecting people a stock block, which we all know is the weak point.
Also a 347 with a stock block and a supercharger makes little sense, a good 347 should make 400rwhp, if the block is only safely good for 450rwhp to 500rwhp, the sc really isn't worth the risk or trouble.
Me personally? I'd probably do the whole suspension with a maximum motorsports kit (ain't nobody knocking the car for that).
A nice complete top end on the stock shortblock with a mass air conversion (saving all old parts) and go from there.
If you break the trans (which you may), in this case i'd probably do a G force rebuild (something I wouldn't say for someone's car that was already modded to hell with high mileage).
If someone told me they pulled a good low mileage engine in a clean car for a dss 347, I would not believe them.
I'd probably walk, thinking if these are the kind of decisions they made, what else could they have done or what are they hiding?
I'm still for modding it, not sure of owning any fox other than a saleen or cobra and not modding it (even then I would do it anyway), but with low mileage I think the choices need to be tasteful and high end.
My opinion is along the similar line as mike 5L5.
It has to be all quality parts, no knockoffs, no SVE, UPR etc.
A DSS long block is not going to be a good selling point, they weren't exactly synonymous with quality or high end.
If i'm not mistaken the "cnc block" thing, was just a marketing ploy to sell unsuspecting people a stock block, which we all know is the weak point.
Also a 347 with a stock block and a supercharger makes little sense, a good 347 should make 400rwhp, if the block is only safely good for 450rwhp to 500rwhp, the sc really isn't worth the risk or trouble.
Me personally? I'd probably do the whole suspension with a maximum motorsports kit (ain't nobody knocking the car for that).
A nice complete top end on the stock shortblock with a mass air conversion (saving all old parts) and go from there.
If you break the trans (which you may), in this case i'd probably do a G force rebuild (something I wouldn't say for someone's car that was already modded to hell with high mileage).
If someone told me they pulled a good low mileage engine in a clean car for a dss 347, I would not believe them.
I'd probably walk, thinking if these are the kind of decisions they made, what else could they have done or what are they hiding?
I'm still for modding it, not sure of owning any fox other than a saleen or cobra and not modding it (even then I would do it anyway), but with low mileage I think the choices need to be tasteful and high end.
Great write up, I appreciate the thought and honesty that went into this. I'm pretty confused though, the DSS CNC shortblocks, while they are a stock XXX block, they are prepped as much as possible. With the addition of the girdle, it should be strong enough to handle 550hp. I know the story about the webbing and how it is the weak point, and you're probably right, however, I did get this motor at a really good deal. Believe me, I would love to do all Maximum Motorsports suspension and an A4 block but it just isn't in the budget. Maybe you're right, maybe I should just stick a top end on here with the MAF conversion and go from there, but I didn't want to break open the stock engine as I was going to preserve it and keep it in the barn.
The thing is that I would need to put the PMS in the car to support the 347 with the cam that is in it (Comp Cams 35-312-8), it's going to need a tune to get it to run right. The idea was to put a blower on it, V3 Si-trim as well. The Pro-M maf is calibrated for the 44lb injectors that I have for it. Anyways, I get you, the appeal to maintain value is to dump tons of money into it for the highest quality parts, however to do all that would cost a hell of a lot more than I'm wiling to spend on it and then I would definitely be losing money in the long run. It would probably cost 30k, plus the cost of the car at 9k. To do all that, and a hopeful return of 15-20k is a huge loss. To estimate what I have in the motor and what I still need, will probably be in the ballpark of 20k including the cost of the car so if I do end up selling it we're probably looking at the same 12-15k. But at that point I'd probably put the stock motor and parts back in it and sell the car for 10k and part the rest out.
Again, this really isn't a financial decision, my main concern is breaking the stock car up in the first place, I am a huge mustang lover, have been for over 20 years and the nostalgic value would be best discussed on this forum. I was sort of hoping for a resounding "keep it stock", but I think our culture as mustang enthusiasts is to get the most out of them. It's never really been a collector car to most of us, not sure how many of us have ever owned a bone stock, amazing condition fox body either though. This is definitely a first for me.
The thing is that I would need to put the PMS in the car to support the 347 with the cam that is in it (Comp Cams 35-312-8), it's going to need a tune to get it to run right. The idea was to put a blower on it, V3 Si-trim as well. The Pro-M maf is calibrated for the 44lb injectors that I have for it. Anyways, I get you, the appeal to maintain value is to dump tons of money into it for the highest quality parts, however to do all that would cost a hell of a lot more than I'm wiling to spend on it and then I would definitely be losing money in the long run. It would probably cost 30k, plus the cost of the car at 9k. To do all that, and a hopeful return of 15-20k is a huge loss. To estimate what I have in the motor and what I still need, will probably be in the ballpark of 20k including the cost of the car so if I do end up selling it we're probably looking at the same 12-15k. But at that point I'd probably put the stock motor and parts back in it and sell the car for 10k and part the rest out.
Again, this really isn't a financial decision, my main concern is breaking the stock car up in the first place, I am a huge mustang lover, have been for over 20 years and the nostalgic value would be best discussed on this forum. I was sort of hoping for a resounding "keep it stock", but I think our culture as mustang enthusiasts is to get the most out of them. It's never really been a collector car to most of us, not sure how many of us have ever owned a bone stock, amazing condition fox body either though. This is definitely a first for me.
The DSS cnc block is just a bunch of fancy jargon to upsell a bunch of nothingness.
A stock block is a stock block no matter what you install in it.
It's why you will find most guys here don't invest money in fancy parts in one. Instead of an inexpensive bang, you have a really expensive one.
The injectors are probably 42's, not 44's (not sure if 44's even exist).
With just the 347 and no supercharger, the car will need 30's to run right.
The pms shouldn't be necessary with the right meter and injectors. I've seen R block 347's that made nearly 500rwhp at 7500rpm run 10.40's with solid lifters without any tuning, i'm sure the computer can handle whatever cam you are talking about.
Be realistic, are you really willing to put the car back to stock again? People say that all the time, but after swapping a motor once, you may not want to do it twice, people say it all the time, but most just hand the next guy crates of the old parts and that's how the stock stuff gets lost, sold or junked.
You don't need to take a 200rwhp car and turn it into a 550rwhp car to have fun. That's a 350rwhp gain all at once...
Besides, you say you don't have the budget for suspension, that 500rwhp is going to turn your car into a pretzel.
You need a complete suspension for that much power, you also need better bigger brakes, which in turn will cost you to go 5 lug (or buy expensive mediocre 4 lug parts) and then you will need new wheels. You will also need a trans for sure too, there is another 4g's...
It's a slippery slope.
My advice if you aren't all in, is just stay off the slope completely, do a nice h/c/I setup, some nice suspension upgrades and enjoy the car.
Anyone that comes to look at the car one day will know you have taste and sensibility.
A stock block is a stock block no matter what you install in it.
It's why you will find most guys here don't invest money in fancy parts in one. Instead of an inexpensive bang, you have a really expensive one.
The injectors are probably 42's, not 44's (not sure if 44's even exist).
With just the 347 and no supercharger, the car will need 30's to run right.
The pms shouldn't be necessary with the right meter and injectors. I've seen R block 347's that made nearly 500rwhp at 7500rpm run 10.40's with solid lifters without any tuning, i'm sure the computer can handle whatever cam you are talking about.
Be realistic, are you really willing to put the car back to stock again? People say that all the time, but after swapping a motor once, you may not want to do it twice, people say it all the time, but most just hand the next guy crates of the old parts and that's how the stock stuff gets lost, sold or junked.
You don't need to take a 200rwhp car and turn it into a 550rwhp car to have fun. That's a 350rwhp gain all at once...
Besides, you say you don't have the budget for suspension, that 500rwhp is going to turn your car into a pretzel.
You need a complete suspension for that much power, you also need better bigger brakes, which in turn will cost you to go 5 lug (or buy expensive mediocre 4 lug parts) and then you will need new wheels. You will also need a trans for sure too, there is another 4g's...
It's a slippery slope.
My advice if you aren't all in, is just stay off the slope completely, do a nice h/c/I setup, some nice suspension upgrades and enjoy the car.
Anyone that comes to look at the car one day will know you have taste and sensibility.
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Right on man, much appreciated. The 44s are Accel,
https://www.americanmuscle.com/accel-fi-44lb.html?utm_content=Engine - Fuel|Accel&T5_Var4=37265&utm_source=google-pla&utm_medium=shopping&T5_Var2=shopping&utm_campaign=AMM+Mustang+Brands+Medium&T5_Var3=blue&intl=0&dialogtech=ppc&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9JzoBRDjARIsAGcdIDVSzpqcm8jP8A6xaqoVk5wJGCFcyWBQiXq6uscan8x13wnAmwH26koaAkBxEALw_wcB
I didn't say I didn't have funding to support suspension and supporting mods, just not neccesarily Maximum Motorsports. I currently have a UPR k-member and spring perches however I decided to go with coilovers.
https://www.americanmuscle.com/accel-fi-44lb.html?utm_content=Engine - Fuel|Accel&T5_Var4=37265&utm_source=google-pla&utm_medium=shopping&T5_Var2=shopping&utm_campaign=AMM+Mustang+Brands+Medium&T5_Var3=blue&intl=0&dialogtech=ppc&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9JzoBRDjARIsAGcdIDVSzpqcm8jP8A6xaqoVk5wJGCFcyWBQiXq6uscan8x13wnAmwH26koaAkBxEALw_wcB
I didn't say I didn't have funding to support suspension and supporting mods, just not neccesarily Maximum Motorsports. I currently have a UPR k-member and spring perches however I decided to go with coilovers.
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Blown88GT
Founding Member
Mine looks a lot like yours, 58k miles, original owner, original paint & wheels (now spares).Ok StangNet... It's been a while since I've been very active on this forum, however, I feel that this is the most reasonable place to pose this question. I purchased a gem of a Mustang last winter and at the same time I found some great deals on some parts. First, this car is a 1988 Mustang GT with 43k original miles, all matching numbers and in pristine condition.
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Looks very nice! Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I am almost done with the build, just need a new catback as this one turned out to be ProFlo and the pipes to the mufflers are bent in all crazy angles and wont mate up to the shorty Hpipe. I could cut them off and put new pipes to the mufflers but when I popped them off the factory Hpipe they had so much rust inside they had welded themselves together. Better off getting a new setup. I also pulled the trigger on the blower, so everything is done, MAF conversion, ran the extra wires for the VSS and FPM circuits. Another few weeks and it will be ready to fire up. Got a startup tune for the Gen 4 PMS, just need a MAP sensor for the system and should be ready to go. This has been quite a build, so much custom work. They say bolt ons, not quite.
Thanks for the posts friends, forgot how much work this all was, had some great times and a lot of bad words in this build.
Thanks for the posts friends, forgot how much work this all was, had some great times and a lot of bad words in this build.
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