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MPG/EGR/SMOG PUMP

  • Thread starter Thread starter supr_sly
  • Start date Start date Jun 2, 2009
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
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casa granda, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#1
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #1
I have a mostly stock 93 5.0, long tube headers, off-road X pipe, cold air intake.
I had to remove my cats because one was clogged. I put on a set of flowtech long tube headers and an off road X Pipe (there is no return exhaust from there headers). I left on the smog pump (it is not hooked up to any thing). First my mpg dropped from 20+ to 15/16 then it started to surge @ idle. I pulled the codes and got 33, 96
I have a few questions.
1. Should I expect that kind of MPG without all of the smog and EGR?
2. Will putting in an EGR Eliminator/Simulator stop the surging and return my MPG?
 

dcurtis

10 Year Member
Jan 19, 2006
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Jun 2, 2009
#2
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #2
Why does it not have egr? eliminating the smog and the cats should pose no problem.
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
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casa granda, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#3
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #3
It has an EGR but it is giving me an error code. I was thinking if there is no return gas I could just get rid of it and put in some kind of blank to fool the computer. I need better gas mileage
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,179
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Massachusetts
Jun 2, 2009
#4
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #4
Want better fuel economy? Get the EGR functional again. It doesn't rob HP and works at crusing RPM to lessen the fuel requirements of the engine.
 

jrichker

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#5
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #5
See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems. Everything you need to find and fix idle problems is in there.

The first two posts contain all the updates to the fixes. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
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casa granda, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#6
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #6
Ok I need better MPG because I have to drive to work and school about 100 miles/day round trip. If fixing this will coast too much money I will just buy a Junker to drive around in and save the stang for weekends. Money is an issue so is mpg. We are all felling this. So how do I get the EGR working again? There is no bong on my x pipe for the return exhaust.
 

jrichker

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#7
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #7
Some basic theory to clarify how things work is in order…

EGR System theory and testing

The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas mileage and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions.

The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.




Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 Mustangs)


The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt.

The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.



EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig


To test the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker.

Late Model Restoration has the Ford Racing M-12071-N302 kit with the EGR valve & sensor along with the ACT & ECT sensors for $45. See * * * N/A * * * 86-93 SENSOR KIT, 5.0L EFI, INCLUDES EGR VALVE & SENSOR, COOLANT TEMP SENSOR, & AIR CHARGE TEMP SENSOR MUSTANG for more details
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
26
0
0
casa granda, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#8
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #8
So I have to live with less then great MPG because I took off the factory crossover pipe. Can I use the smog pump to add air to the egr, it will be fresh air but it should have a similar effect. Do you know of any one who has done anything like this? This bits I love the sound of my long tubes but I really need better MPG. Thank for the trouble shooting guide I will have to study it some more to see if I can fix this issue with out putting the cats back on (I don’t have them any more).
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,179
17,883
224
Massachusetts
Jun 2, 2009
#9
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #9
You don't need the pipe running to the cats to be hooked up. EGR system is internal to the engine
 

Darkwriter77

Resident Ranting Negative Nancy
5 Year Member
Jul 1, 2005
314
281
134
Apache Junction, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#10
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #10
The AIR pipe going from your smog pump to your cats has pretty much NOTHING to do with your EGR valve. All your smog pump does is inject air into your exhaust system ahead of the cats to help burn unspent fuels in the exhaust and thus produce cleaner emissions, and also inject fresh air into the cylinder heads (the hose coming off the smog pump has a Y-connection - one to the heads, one to the exhaust).

The EGR valve, as stated, is largely an internal engine system, as it pulls exhaust gases from the cylinder heads (not from the exhaust tubing) to cool the combustion chamber. A non-functional EGR valve will cause error codes and drivability problems out the wazoo; a properly functioning EGR valve makes for a happy motor. Nothing is gained from deleting the EGR, other than simplifying the engine bay, and the only time this is really practical is if you convert to a non-computer, carb'ed setup using an intake with no EGR provisions (otherwise you have to have a custom tune to eliminate EGR functions that factor into the air/fuel mix table and such).

If your EGR valve is physically present but not working properly, it could be:

1. Damaged or disconnected vacuum line to EGR valve - inspect all vacuum lines and splice/replace damaged lines and make sure lines are correctly routed;

2. EGR valve is clogged up with carbon - remove, inspect, and clean EGR valve with appropriate cleaning agent (I've always used Seafoam Deep Creep and a tiny flathead screwdriver);

3. EGR valve position sensor (EVP) is not functioning properly - trouble codes will usually indicate whether this part has gone bad, but sometimes a piece of debris can get on the end of the plunger going into the valve and throw off its readings;

4. EGR vacuum solenoid - follow the vacuum line off the EGR valve over to the passenger-rear corner of the engine bay and verify vacuum lines are present, in good condition, and properly routed/connected (consult a vacuum diagram for proper routing/connections).
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
26
0
0
casa granda, AZ
Jun 2, 2009
#11
  • Jun 2, 2009
  • #11
Thank you for clearing that up for me I got myself confused. I will go and get a new EGR valve. I will let you guy know how this goes. Gas is not cheep and this is my daily driver I also need to replace a fuel pump relay. Thanks for all the help!
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
26
0
0
casa granda, AZ
Jul 22, 2009
#12
  • Jul 22, 2009
  • #12
i replaced the relay and all codes are clear but i still do not get any better gas mileage. i thank the o2 sencesr r not getting hot enough cout a set of M.I.L.S. help out
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,179
17,883
224
Massachusetts
Jul 22, 2009
#13
  • Jul 22, 2009
  • #13
Your car is not OBDII, MILS don't work for 5.0's
 
S

supr_sly

New Member
Jul 30, 2003
26
0
0
casa granda, AZ
Jul 22, 2009
#14
  • Jul 22, 2009
  • #14
thx i just found that out. i had other post i am going back to the beginning and see if i missed anything
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,179
17,883
224
Massachusetts
Jul 22, 2009
#15
  • Jul 22, 2009
  • #15
What are you getting for MPG??


I get 10MPG with my car....which is fine with me because it's not my DD. I've never really been able to do better than 15 tops.
 
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