MPH Mongoose Vortech Kit vs. RPMoutlet's Procharger Kit.

TurbLu · Jan 7, 2006

So which one would you go with? And why...

Modular Power House Mongoose Vortech Kit (no options)
http://modularpowerhouse.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_50&products_id=121&osCsid=b4d51183064394b40f7bd53b7bb0a168

or

RPMoutlets Procharger kit (Stage 1 kit no options)
http://www.rpmoutlet.com/musv8ati.htm

helty · Jan 7, 2006

MPH, because they're proven and RPMoutlet can kiss my ass

DBMSTNG · Jan 8, 2006

MPH. you'll get a tune you can trust with it.

timeless2 · Jan 8, 2006

I've seen more cars running strong and long with MPH than the other option. Perhaps there is a reason why we only hear one side.....

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 8, 2006

I can't comment on the tune you get with RPMoutlets kit (and those who've no experience, shouldn’t' either) but I've grown more and more interested with Procharger blowers over the last little while. The self contained oiling system doesn't normally do it for me, but if you keep the oil changed regularly, you shouldn't have a problem. I like the head unit's 4.10 step up ratio for its ability to broaden the power curve down low, where normal centrifugals are usually lacking and I like the idea that it comes standard with an after cooler. I would think that between the two, the Procharger would make more power and a broader torque curve, so it's all pretty much going to depend on which of the companies you're going to trust for their mail order tune.

DBMSTNG · Jan 8, 2006

i forgot to mention, the P1-SC supercharger isn't as good performance or quality wise compared to the Vortech S-trim. the only bonus to the Procharger is that it comes with an intercooler.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 8, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
i forgot to mention, the P1-SC supercharger isn't as good performance or quality wise compared to the Vortech S-trim. the only bonus to the Procharger is that it comes with an intercooler.

Just curious, but how do you figure that the S-Trim is a better performer than the P-1SC? I like the Vortech as much as the next guy, but the P-1SC will move a larger volume of air and support more horsepower than an S-Trim will, by a fair margin. As far as quality is concerned, there are a couple of people that have had leaking seal issues with the Procharger, but they seem to be isolated incidences. Otherwise, the quality and performance seems to be on par if not better than any of the other Centrifugals in its class.

jimfitzgerald · Jan 8, 2006

Whatever you get, get it from MPH. I would go with a Kenne Bell.

tomustang · Jan 8, 2006

jimfitzgerald said:
I would go with a Kenne Bell.

you already did

squares98 · Jan 8, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Just curious, but how do you figure that the S-Trim is a better performer than the P-1SC? I like the Vortech as much as the next guy, but the P-1SC will move a larger volume of air and support more horsepower than an S-Trim will, by a fair margin. As far as quality is concerned, there are a couple of people that have had leaking seal issues with the Procharger, but they seem to be isolated incidences. Otherwise, the quality and performance seems to be on par if not better than any of the other Centrifugals in its class.

On these boards I've seen as many people with leaky KB's as leaky Prochargers, which is very few isolated incidents. If I ever go FI i'm going with ATI, or Kenne Bell.
also if your going to go the ATI route you should do the stage II kit with the 3 core intercooler

TurbLu · Jan 8, 2006

Ok so sound wise... how does the vortech/procharger compare to a stock 03/04 cobra blower?

jimfitzgerald · Jan 8, 2006

TurbLu said:
Ok so sound wise... how does the vortech/procharger compare to a stock 03/04 cobra blower?

Centrifugals make a whistle sound at idle that twin screws do not make.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 8, 2006

The Eaton Blower is louder than the Vortech or the Procharger. Centi's "whistle" Eaton’s "whine".

DBMSTNG · Jan 8, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Just curious, but how do you figure that the S-Trim is a better performer than the P-1SC? I like the Vortech as much as the next guy, but the P-1SC will move a larger volume of air and support more horsepower than an S-Trim will, by a fair margin. As far as quality is concerned, there are a couple of people that have had leaking seal issues with the Procharger, but they seem to be isolated incidences. Otherwise, the quality and performance seems to be on par if not better than any of the other Centrifugals in its class.

there are more than a few instances of seal failure on the P1-SC. as for the efficiency, the gearing in the P1-SC isn't as efficient as the S-Trim and also, since it has a self contained oil system, the oil inside the blower heats up more than with an S-trim causing higher blower temps.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 8, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
there are more than a few instances of seal failure on the P1-SC. as for the efficiency, the gearing in the P1-SC isn't as efficient as the S-Trim and also, since it has a self contained oil system, the oil inside the blower heats up more than with an S-trim causing higher blower temps.

I wouldn't call the leaking seal issue a “failure”, as much as I would an inconvenience. I've never once heard of a seal going bad and taking the rest of the blower with it. The problem is more of a slight annoyance because of the mess that the oil that "seeps" past the seal itself makes. Either way, they don’t go all at once either….seals wear out, bearings wear out and it’s just one of the little hiccups of owning a non-stock Mustang. Regardless, ATI has had no troubles addressing this issue for owners in the past, much like Vortech, Kenne Bell or any other company would not have with regards to issues dealing with any deficiencies of their blower.

The gearing in the P1SC is quite good for a street car. It allows for better low end horsepower and torque, than the traditional Centrifugal, since the 4.10 step up ratio allows it to spin the impeller unit that much quicker and easier. Much like when you swap out to a set of higher (numerically) gears in the rear end of your Mustang. The engine is able to easier pull the shorter gear and make better used of the power available by putting it to the pavement. It may make a little more heat that your average Centrifugal, but it still doesn’t make anywhere near the heat that your average Eaton or Twin Screw does and as such still allows for a nice hard pull on the top end. It's a nice compromise between the two and ideal for a car looking to make moderate/semi-serious power levels.

The oil in the self contained unit does get a little warmer and it would stand to reason, but not to the point where it's seriously affecting performance. All Positive Displacement blowers are self contained as well, but you never hear of problems with excessive heat because of it. The Procharger units implement a completely fool proof "misting" system that both lowers oil temperatures and always assures adequate oiling to the gear unit.

The additional temperatures that are seen due to the higher gear speed and non-fresh oil feed are minimal and remain essentially within the gear casing itself. The intake and discharge points themselves are isolated from this area and still allow for very manageable ACT's. Regardless....any additional heat that the self contained unit might be making, is pretty quickly nullified...and then some by the standard intercooler.

The Procharger owners I've seen on this board are very happy with their units and always dyno a fair bit higher than the other comparable centrifugal set ups. Even higher than some of the Twin Screw units in a lot of the applications. The power is good, the price is right….I’d even consider one for my next 4V project.

jimfitzgerald · Jan 8, 2006

I would not want a P1sc. I would rather have a Novi 2000 or Votech.

Ernad · Jan 8, 2006

Whatever you get and whose ever tune you get, go to a dyno and a get a A/F ratio just to make sure.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 8, 2006

jimfitzgerald said:
I would not want a P1sc. I would rather have a Novi 2000 or Votech.

For what reason exactly? Or is this just a personal preference?

jimfitzgerald · Jan 8, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
For what reason exactly? Or is this just a personal preference?

Personal preference based owning a Novi 2000, friends with Vortechs, and not hearing too many good things about the P1sc.

DBMSTNG · Jan 8, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
I wouldn't call the leaking seal issue a “failure”, as much as I would an inconvenience. I've never once heard of a seal going bad and taking the rest of the blower with it. The problem is more of a slight annoyance because of the mess that the oil that "seeps" past the seal itself makes. Either way, they don’t go all at once either….seals wear out, bearings wear out and it’s just one of the little hiccups of owning a non-stock Mustang. Regardless, ATI has had no troubles addressing this issue for owners in the past, much like Vortech, Kenne Bell or any other company would not have with regards to issues dealing with any deficiencies of their blower.

The gearing in the P1SC is quite good for a street car. It allows for better low end horsepower and torque, than the traditional Centrifugal, since the 4.10 step up ratio allows it to spin the impeller unit that much quicker and easier. Much like when you swap out to a set of higher (numerically) gears in the rear end of your Mustang. The engine is able to easier pull the shorter gear and make better used of the power available by putting it to the pavement. It may make a little more heat that your average Centrifugal, but it still doesn’t make anywhere near the heat that your average Eaton or Twin Screw does and as such still allows for a nice hard pull on the top end. It's a nice compromise between the two and ideal for a car looking to make moderate/semi-serious power levels.

The oil in the self contained unit does get a little warmer and it would stand to reason, but not to the point where it's seriously affecting performance. All Positive Displacement blowers are self contained as well, but you never hear of problems with excessive heat because of it. The Procharger units implement a completely fool proof "misting" system that both lowers oil temperatures and always assures adequate oiling to the gear unit.

The additional temperatures that are seen due to the higher gear speed and non-fresh oil feed are minimal and remain essentially within the gear casing itself. The intake and discharge points themselves are isolated from this area and still allow for very manageable ACT's. Regardless....any additional heat that the self contained unit might be making, is pretty quickly nullified...and then some by the standard intercooler.

The Procharger owners I've seen on this board are very happy with their units and always dyno a fair bit higher than the other comparable centrifugal set ups. Even higher than some of the Twin Screw units in a lot of the applications. The power is good, the price is right….I’d even consider one for my next 4V project.

ever notice that intercooled P1-SC's make about the same power as non-intercooled S-Trims? and the P1SC dies around 500rwhp while the S trim has gone well past the 600 mark. i've never heard of a S trim head unit having a problem, which is funny, because there are atleast 5 for every P1-SC. between the two, Tim B prefers the S Trim. i'm sure he has valid reasons. and yes, ATI has had problems addressing the issue in the past. they had claimed to have "fixed" the problem, yet they actually did nothing. roots and twin screw blowers have heat exchangers for their blowers whereas the P1-SC does not.

we can go on if you really want, but the truth of the matter is that the S-trim is more durable, and can just flat out make more power. if you don't believe me, prove me wrong.

MPH Mongoose Vortech Kit vs. RPMoutlet's Procharger Kit.

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