Mustang had to hauled away

[fastdave]

Mustang had to be hauled away

I had my 65 289 rebuilt by a good shop but I'm having trouble with it. It fired right up but the valves were making a lot of noise. I didn't want to shut it off until the cam was broke in. After 30 mins I shut it down and pulled the valve covers (maybe a rocker or 2 came off?). Everything looked good, plenty of oil. I started it again and set the timing and rpm. I called the guy who built the motor and he said he did adjust the valves. It has a Comp Cam XE262. I took it to a local shop and they checked all of the electrical and fuel stuff & said it looked good. They couldn't get the valves adjusted either. Said it was misfiring on 2 cylinders and gets really bad above 1700 rpm. Yes the firing order is right (Changed it to the 302 order to just check but still the same)Long story short the guy who built the motor brought a trailer & took it to another mechanic he knows. He said he would do whatever it takes to make it right and he will pay for it. Any ideas??

 

[347Fastback]

Hey Dave,

Give my buddy Bob Sauzek a call. He is the owner of B& D Products. He ports heads and has nice flowbench etc. He is also a big Ford nut and builds a mean 331 stroker..
Bob
Casa Grande,AZ (520) 431 -3117....

 

[fastdave]

I work in Casa Grande so I will give him a call...

 

[10secgoal]

I say if he is willing to fix and pay for it, don't bother. Let him fix it

 

[wild70stang]

yeah but even if he is paying for it to have his mechanic fix it what if he damages it even more??? geez. I will try to think about this problem and post again if I can think of anything.

 

[wild70stang]

ok, what about something with the push rods, the valve springs not on right. If the cylinders were not firing check to see if there is gas inside or if the spark plugs wernt firing. The distributer could be ****ed up to where it would offset the timing for those two cylinders.

 

[10secgoal]

yeah but even if he is paying for it to have his mechanic fix it what if he damages it even more??? geez. I will try to think about this problem and post again if I can think of anything.

What if, what if. What if he fixes it ? The guy payed to have someone do a job for him. It is not right. He is fixing it like he should. Maybe he is taking it to his buddies house to HAVE it fixed, or needs someone to bounce ideas off of. The fact that he is taking care of it shows he is holding up his side of the bargain. Theres nothing wrong with that. GEEZ

 

[347Fastback]

I agree about the guy taking care of the problem but there nothing wrong with getting a second opinion. Bob is a old school Ford guy and he is a good contact since they are in the same area... Just a little bit of mustang networking...

 

[fastdave]

The 2 cyls that were not firing were wet w/ fuel. Also the shop checked all of the electrical, MSD 6A box, MSD dist ect. All checked out good on the scope. I was thinking that maybe it could be the pushrods, BUT on only 2 cyls?? He bought a complete cam kit from Comp Cams so everything SHOULD be okay. I actually do trust the guy and I am going to give him the chance to make everything right. He is taking it to his mechanic friend who has been restoring all makes of muscle cars at his shop for 30 years. Wierd problem. I will keep you posted as I find out more. Because of the holiday it might be a week or so. Unusual problems is how we all learn something. I just don't like being the one who we have to learn from!!

 

[180 Out]

What if the builder adjusted the valves using the wrong firing order? The way I do it, anyway, is to do one cylinder at a time, starting with #1, and turning the crank 90 degrees then doing the next one in the firing order. It's hard to believe that anyone could be that clueless, both to use the wrong firing order and not to notice that a lifter was still rising as he turned the crank to bring that cylinder up to TDC. But adjusting a lifter with it sitting on a lobe ramp would certainly cause lifter noise.

 

[latamud]

Maybe the msd is set for a 6 cyl or 4 cyl engine.

 

[fastdave]

The engine builder adjusted the valves the first time,I did it the second time,the shop I took it to did it the third time and the mechanic who the engine builder took my car to on Sunday adjusted them again. It seems like it is not firing on 2 cyls. They checked all of the electrical and it checked out good. To be sure they swapped the MSD box w/ a new one. Still same problem. The engine builder wants to swap the dist,I told him that it would either work or not work. I don't think it would miss on only 2 cyls. Same w/ the fuel system, It works on all the cyls or not at all (Unless a rag or something is stuck in one of the runners.) The 2 dead cyls plugs are wet so they are getting fuel. Really strange problem. I will keep you guys updated on what we find....

 

[iamlance]

Vaccum leak???

 

[dennis112]

I know that you already checked the firing order, but early 289 and 302 firing orders are the same. The more modern 302 (beginning with the HO's, I believe) were changed to the 351w firing order. As a long shot, did you try the 351w firing order?

As mentioned above a vacuum leak could prevent 2 cylinders from firing.

I would consider having a compression test done to make sure that the major mechanicals (and the head gasket) were functioning properly.

 

[65mistress]

Dennis might be onto something, if the cam profile is for a later model 302, and the timing was set for the earlier 302, then that would kill the cylinders, or am I way off base on that?

 

[mustangman1974]

I agree with the 6cyl suggestion. disconnect the MSD and see if it does the same thing. Or just unplug the dead cylinders adn hook up plugs to see if they are getting a spark. I have had several sets of wires actually be bad from the factory.

 

[fastdave]

Latest up date... They swapped out the ignition to an old points dist,completly elminating the MSD system, They tore the carb down, Had 2 more mechanics look at it. We called Comp cams to verify the firing order. Everyone is scratching their heads. We agreed that he needs to pull the motor and tear it down to find out what is wrong. Should pull it on Monday and tear it down on Tuesday. His shop puts out an average of 50 engines a month. He said this is only the 2nd engine in 10 years he has ever had to tear down again. One thing for sure, he will go through the engine w/ a fine tooth comb so it should be damn near perfect when he assembles it again. Still very curious to find out what is wrong.

 

[69Rcode_Mach1]

That's good that this guy is going through all this effort to help you out. I have yet to meet an honorable shop in my area. I do everything myself, but for things like painting it would be nice to have a shop that actually does what they say.

 

[fastdave]

The mechanic tore down my engine today. ALL of the cam lobes were wiped out! Prior to starting it I put in an old dist shaft and used my electric drill to run the oil pump for about 10 mins. I purged all of my lines to the gauge and it indicated about 60-65#. When I started it I watched the oil pressure closely and it was good. The lifters were noisy from the start. Ran it for 25 mins @ 2000 rpm. He couldn't find out what caused the lack of oil pressure. We agreed that it will need to be completly tore down & rebuilt again. I will buy all of the parts @ his cost & he will pay for all of the labor including paying the mechanic who pulled the motor and who is installing it. Then he will start it and break in the cam. This sounds fair to me but how does it sound to you guys?

 

[68keyblr]

I'm just down the road from you in Queen Creek...what shop/mechanic did the work?