My Senior Project

[paintballtommy]

Hey,

For my senior project for hs i am rebuilding my motor for my 68 mustang. I was just looking for some input on what you guys think of my setup that i ahve planned.

holley street avenger 750 cfm carb
Edelbrock victor intake manifold 3500-8000
68 4v stock heads( I plan to Port and polish these heads)
stock 68 302 block
for cam im not to clear on this area. Either this
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-31-242-3
or this
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-31-246-3
I like the lumpy idle sound and i know that the overlap and lobe separation should give me that but im concerned about valve lift.
crank will msot likely be a summit forged 302 crank Im not sure about the specs but it seems affordable and good for my application. im aiming to make around 400+ horses if i can at the crank. For pistons and rods i would like to try and pump up the compression ratio. im looking for around 10-1 or something around there. my mentor says he used keith black pistons in his motor and they are nice so im thinking about those. Im not sure wheather or not to use the hypereuretic or forged pistons. I need some help selecting the exact piston as im kinda sketchy on chamber size and what not. any help with this would be extreemley helpfull especially concerning con rods. other that that i have all the small stuff worked out.
holley fuel pump and fuel preasure regulator. hv oil pump, high flow water pump and flexlite fan and all the tidbits.
Im thinking of using the stock distributor and adding a pertronix hei module to it or should i jsut junk it and buy a new distributor?

I would really like to meet my goal of 400+ horses so any help is really appreciated.

Thanks guys,
Tommy

 

[Fostang]

Everything sounds great except for those crap heads.

The engine will not run correctly without first uncorking the heads. No not just porting a polishing. Valves should be upgraded to 2.02 1.60 valves.

Cam either one just depends what kind of piston to valve clearence once your heads and higher compression pistons are installed.

 

[gp001]

IMHO the cams and manifold are mismatched.

Cam 1: 1500 - 5800
Cam 2: 1500 - 6000
Manifold 3500 - 8000

Too much carb

 

[Fostang]

Yeah but he's not going to hit 400 hp with anything smaller on a 302. Carb wise

RPM or Stealth intake? Or simply bigger cam.

 

[gp001]

Yeah but he's not going to hit 400 hp with anything smaller on a 302. Carb wise

What?

cfm = [(rpm x displacement)/3456] x volumetric efficiency

Most experts say a mildly built street engine would have a hardtime hitting 85-90% VE. A HIGHLY tuned race engine may hit 100-110% VE. So, the ends of the spectrum for his setup would be

[(6000 x 302)/3456] x .85 = 445.66
[(6000 x 302)/3456] x 1.1 = 490.23

 

[taylor4g63]

I would stay away from that intake, it wouldn't match your application too well. i like that cam, it should be good. As for heads, IF you have the money, AFR's are going to be your best bet. I would probably go for the 185's so that would leave you some room to grow. For a few hundred cheaper you could get some new trickflows, or search online for some used ones. I've seen some nice used alum. heads go online for a good 600-700 bucks. Im willing to be it would cost 500 to put bigger valves in your heads and a mild port polish job, and still wouldn't flow as well. Do yourself a favor and step up to aluminum if u can afford it.

 

[SuperDave]

I'd strongly recommend that you establish a $$$$$$$ budget before you get carried away. If it is a "senior project" you're "under the gun" time-wise. June is not all that far away.

 

[paintballtommy]

should have 2 grand more or so in about 5-6 weeks. the project does not even have to be finished by end of senior project. as long as your mentor signs off saying the project was not completed due to financial constraints or time constraints or whatever as long as you put out an honest effort your grade wont suffer. so i have plenty of time. if everything goes right im hoping to have the engine up and running by end of the school year. If i was to go stroker on thsi motor it might take longer but would the benefits of say a 331 be worth it? also if so what kits do you recomend.

thanks,
tommy

 

[paintballtommy]

IMHO the cams and manifold are mismatched.

Cam 1: 1500 - 5800
Cam 2: 1500 - 6000
Manifold 3500 - 8000

I was hoping to gain some topend by using an upper rpm manifold or would that just cause problems with low end cams?

 

[taylor4g63]

yes that would cause problems. it would be a dog off the line and still have no topend. Its all about a good combo. I would go with the stealth intake, or if you must go single plain look into the axcellerator also by weiand.

For a carb, look into a 570 demon (demon rates their carbs differently, so that 570 is up in the 600's by how most other manufactures rate them). I've heard ONLY great things about demon carbs...

 

[gp001]

I was hoping to gain some topend by using an upper rpm manifold or would that just cause problems with low end cams?

As Taylor stated, it would cause problems. You want to try to match parts so they can work together effeciently. You might want to look into some of the Edldebrock packages that work together. Those would probably be a better financial and learning experience. You also might want to re-think your 400 hp mark. I say this because with 400 fwhp you are really going to need to address other areas of the vehicle (tires, suspension, chassis, etc) and this may not be in your immediate budget. 400 fwhp is probably more than you realize.

 

[Fostang]

Fords like lots of timing and to be overcarbed.

670 would be fine also but it would be pushing it's upper limit at 400 true hp.

I also think this is too much of a project for a senior project.

You have only about 20 hrs to fill at least. Getting the parts alone together shall take this long. Then blah with your mentor etc. etc.

 

[gp001]

Fords like lots of timing and to be overcarbed.

670 would be fine also but it would be pushing it's upper limit at 400 true hp.

What? Where do you get this stuff? Fords don't need any more than any other engine. My 650 was doin fine at 400 fwhp (340 rwhp assuming 15% loss) @ approx 5900 rpm. Still makin power. We also tried with a 750 but had poor results. Both carbs holley DPs

 

[Fostang]

lol you crack me up

 

[gp001]

lol you crack me up

???? How's that?

 

[Fostang]

Nm

 

[SuperDave]

Take a hard look and ask yourself what is more important; building "killer" engine or graduating from high school? I seriously doubt if you mentor cares if you build a stocker or a screamer. Graduate and then you'll have more money and time to concentrate on the "dream" project. Finishing and ENJOYING your final months of high school should be a priority.

I just HAPPEN to have quite a bit of experience to validate my opinion.

 

[taylor4g63]

yes that would cause problems. it would be a dog off the line and still have no topend. Its all about a good combo. I would go with the stealth intake, or if you must go single plain look into the xcellerator also by weiand.

For a carb, look into a 570 demon (demon rates their carbs differently, so that 570 is up in the 600's by how most other manufactures rate them). I've heard ONLY great things about demon carbs...

EDIT : idk what i was thinking saying 570 demon, what i ment was a 625 Road demon. Their somewaht cheap, and should be good for what ur looking to do.

 

[Sicarius428]

Unfortunately I do not think you will make 400 hp at the flywheel with your combo. The stock heads, even though ported and polished can not flow enough on their own. You will also have to get bigger valves too probably. Realisticly I think you can get somewhere about 350 which is nothing to scoff either, especially in such a light car. Engine wise if you are on a budget with ported and polished heads, you will have to go to a higher compression... possibly 11:1 or 12:1. Your engine probably will not run up to 8K on a stock 68' block so the Victor JR will probably not be the best choice. It is really made for NASCAR so leave that to the guys without a budget. 7k is the very max where you probably should go up to for a stree machine. Depending on where you want your power, I suggest getting the Torker II intake manifold or the Performer RPM. The Torker II is great for high end HP but really sacrifices your lower end. The Performer RPM is better at giving you more HP throughout the power band but the Torker II will outflow it in the long run/high end. The Street Avenger is a great carb but I suggest going to a 670. People may say that it is too big but Fords love to be overcarbed and you can always jet the carb down if it becomes a problem. The carb will give you room to grow once you get some better heads. The 770 is a bit much for the 302 unless you are spinning 10K. The foraged crank would be really nice but I think that the money can be better spent on a set of heads personally. Ford engines have a pretty strong bottom end and at 7k you should not be able to break it. Cam wise get one that is matched for your rpm band. Something in the 2k to 6500 rpm band would be best. You can go the edelbrock way and get the matching cams for the intakes. It takes some of the guesswork out of choosing a matched cam although they are pretty pricy for what you get. You can get a similar cam from another company if not a tad better in my opinion for 50 bucks cheaper. I say go foraged pistons and get some summit stage 1 rods. Fords typically don't throw rods but it is good insurance when you are trying to eventually squeeze 1.3hp per cubic inch with higher compression. It isn't impossible but not very easy on a n/a setup that is not a track car with a budget. For pistons keith black does make good pistons but you will have to find out what size you need. You may want to have your block machined out a .030 over to get a good mating surface between the new pistons and block. Summit doesn't list the regular sized pistons in their catalog but they do have them. If not they can order them. Don't forget correct size pushrods because you are puting a cam in you might have to measure how much room you have in the cylinder. Luckly you do not have to worry about exhaust which you probably have figured out. I suggest some hooker super comps with a 3 inch collector and run 3 inch all the way back. Although the gains between 2 1/2 and 3 inch is small you are gonna need to milk what you can out of the engine.
Kevin

 

[LMan]

has anyone said what transmission this will go in front of? What rear gears? What sort of driving? Too many variables unanswered....