N/A 4.6

[Moon]

What's the most amount of power I can get while staying naturally aspirated? I'm thinking of putting on a pair of Twisted Wedges next year (or maybe even converting to 4-valve) or just getting MPH's Mongoose kit. Someone on another board mentioned that it's a good kit, and that getting the heads ported and polished would make more power, as well as going to a 5.4 liter, etc.

So it got me thinking about how much is possible (in both 4.6 and 5.4 form) what's the most possible? Anywhere I can look for more info? Ultimately, the goal is the most power possible with the best gas mileage- strictly for bragging rights

 

[Winters98GT]

I don't believe MPH is in business, but Tim has gone in to business with a big shop in your area that does not only Ford, but GM and other cars. He really pioneered a lot of the high HP 2v stuff back in the day.

Do your research, and determain what your goals are. I would get in touch with Tim, since he is somewhat local to you, and see if he still offers the Mongoose kit.

Most HP NA? That is up in the air. Maybe 350rwhp with the TF heads, if you dump 4k in parts(heads, cams, valve springs, etc.)/install cost/tuning. You will loose a ton of your drivability in the car compared to stock. I would go with a kit from Tim. Car will drive stock until you put your foot in it, and you will make more power and get better MPG.

Edit.

Why do you care about bragging rights? Dyno's don't race cars, people race cars. You can have 500hp, but if it weighs a lot, has bad traction/driver, it won't go anywhere.

 

[Moon]

In all honesty I'd like to have something different. And with the 2011 V6 and V8 both having more hp, torque, and better mpg than mine, that's really something I'd like to match or beat. They're N/A, so I'd like to stay N/A. Around how much would a 4 valve conversion go for in parts alone?

 

[Winters98GT]

You're going to need a new car, if that is what you want. You won't keep up with the new 5.0 in terms of power or MPG if you are staying NA with a 2v or 4v.

 

[Moon]

You're going to need a new car, if that is what you want. You won't keep up with the new 5.0 in terms of power or MPG if you are staying NA with a 2v or 4v.

Either way, around how much is the max hp I can get?

 

[slayerripkdc]

You need a bottle or blower

 

[trinity_gt]

It's a losing game trying to compete with the factory every time they up the HP ante. Hell, most SUVs and family sedans now have at least optional engine packages that surpass the PI 2Vs power output.

Forget the "bragging rights" nonsense: You'll never beat the factory at that game because you're competing against billions in resources and the best engineers in the business. Besides, to whom will you "brag"? It's not like Ford will care about your fuel economy...

IMO: The bottom line is that you want power, plain and simple. But you should think more broadly, such as "area under the curve" and torque to make the car truly satisfying all 'round. Since you're only working with 281 cubes or so you're going to need RPM to make power N/A. With fixed valve timing this generally means a lumpy cam which sounds cool but low-RPM torque often suffers around town. Instead of thinking high-RPM, peaky power you should consider forced induction. It's not cheating and it gives the 281 big-block torque (well, a PD blower does, anyway) and transforms the car around town. I've got a lousy little 1.7 KB and make an easy ~400HP at the wheels. If you use a newer blower and build the motor a bit you can easily make that 500HP or more.

To your question: How much power? I've seen 330rwHP quoted elsewhere but I haven't seen the power and torque curves to know the area under the curves or where this happens RPM-wise. If the number is true, 330rwHP is ~388 flywheel HP, a very healthy 2V indeed. Hard to picture getting much more out of 281 cubes N/A ...

 

[scupking]

You are going to need a blower to make that kind of power. I have all the bolt ons and hitech stage II cams. On a mustang dyno I put down 293rwhp (with an automatic) and on a dyno jet I'm around 310rwhp. With a five speed it would have been over 300rwhp on the mustang dyno. If I got new heads I might be able to put down 320rwhp on the mustang dyno but its not worth the cost. I'm very happy with a 300rwhp n/a car. You don't have to rev the hitech stage IIs to make good tq and with 4.10s she is real fun off the line. The only new car that would beat me off the line would most likely be the new 5.0.

 

[ninjastang125]

Well I'm not into dyno racing so I don't know how much power you will gain but a h/c/I full exhaust and a little compression,with gears and a good tire you could have a mid 11 second car. If you are dead set on a 5.4 you would have to go 4v to have and amount of hp. A 2v 5.4 would just choke at higher rpms. Me, I love a motor car because when you beat the blower guys on the track the are like what the hell are you spraying on me..

 

[Midnight2V]

If you want to stay 2v, trick flow heads with a bowl job on a Boss 5.0 block + stroker will make a lot more power than a 5.4.
If you want to go 4V, a set of ported GT500 heads on that same shorblock will support over 500 HP easily.

 

[98COBRA281]

last time i was on a dyno, i made 317rwhp, so 317 + 15% drive train loss= 364 crank hp.....

its still only a 281ci motor

 

[Midnight2V]

Yes, it is only 281CID, and naturally aspirated, that means you are limited on torque production. If your heads simply outflow your engine over a majority of the operating range. Yes, RPM will allow you to build more power, but so you really want to spin to 8000? Displacement is the only way to increase torque naturally aspirated when your intake can completely fill the cylinders...hence the big bore + stroker. 323CID is almost 15% more than 281CID. The upper limit on torque goes from around 360rwtq to over 400. It gives a lot more potential. And it isn't as under square as the 5.4.

 

[Moon]

Yes, it is only 281CID, and naturally aspirated, that means you are limited on torque production. If your heads simply outflow your engine over a majority of the operating range. Yes, RPM will allow you to build more power, but so you really want to spin to 8000? Displacement is the only way to increase torque naturally aspirated when your intake can completely fill the cylinders...hence the big bore + stroker. 323CID is almost 15% more than 281CID. The upper limit on torque goes from around 360rwtq to over 400. It gives a lot more potential. And it isn't as under square as the 5.4.

Interesting. Lots of stuff to think about. I really like the idea of all motor, because it's kinda old school and different.

As far as in whichever configuration, I remember seeing in some magazine about a Cobra that was naturally aspirated making around 500 hp. I think I'd like to aim for that.

 

[ninjastang125]

500 na would most like be a high compression big bore stroked 5.3 with 4v heads, cams, every thing in the book would have to be thrown on it. There is a guy here that has a similar set up to what I just said and he is at 420ish hp and 390 to 400 tq. The car is an animal but the driveability on a 400 to 500 hp na car is not that great. This guy hits it from a 70 mph roll and blazes his dr's. This would not be a very good car to have for a dd unless it never rains where you live.

 

[Moon]

500 na would most like be a high compression big bore stroked 5.3 with 4v heads, cams, every thing in the book would have to be thrown on it. There is a guy here that has a similar set up to what I just said and he is at 420ish hp and 390 to 400 tq. The car is an animal but the driveability on a 400 to 500 hp na car is not that great. This guy hits it from a 70 mph roll and blazes his dr's. This would not be a very good car to have for a dd unless it never rains where you live.

Tell me more

 

[ninjastang125]

He has ported 03 cobra heads, long tubes, crower cams, big bore stroker, sheetmetal upper intake, cobra lower intake. Can rev to 7000+ rpms. He ran a 11.4 or 11.3 granny shifting because his stock t 45 has been rebuilt 3 times.

 

[joshjwc9]

One of the biggest issues with the newer high HP factory cars is the sheer weight in them. Sure they will have close to 400whp but when they weigh an additional 15%-25% more than the SN95 and New Edge cars, we can compensate big time with weight reduction, suspension and good driving. One of the biggest cars I would compare the new GT to would be 98Cobra281's. His is a high revving, low weight and has a built suspension, and yet still can keep up with many other higher HP cars on the road.

Basically, if you want the power all the time, go with a blower of some kind. But, because our motors aren't super stout from the factory like the 03/04 Cobra and GT500, they will not last over roughly 450whp.

 

[Moon]

One of the biggest issues with the newer high HP factory cars is the sheer weight in them. Sure they will have close to 400whp but when they weigh an additional 15%-25% more than the SN95 and New Edge cars, we can compensate big time with weight reduction, suspension and good driving. One of the biggest cars I would compare the new GT to would be 98Cobra281's. His is a high revving, low weight and has a built suspension, and yet still can keep up with many other higher HP cars on the road.

Basically, if you want the power all the time, go with a blower of some kind. But, because our motors aren't super stout from the factory like the 03/04 Cobra and GT500, they will not last over roughly 450whp.

Understandable. If anything, I'll most definitely keep in mind an upgraded rotating assembly. Right now I'm just doing research before I plan anything out. Most likely next year I will do something, probably Trickflow heads.

7,000+ revs have to be

 

[Winters98GT]

One of the biggest cars I would compare the new GT to would be 98Cobra281's. His is a high revving, low weight and has a built suspension, and yet still can keep up with many other higher HP cars on the road.

This is the exact opposite thing I would ever suggest anybody to do, unless they are a die hard 1320 fan and have the know how to do that much extensive work. (I am myself, and I know the extensive financial/mental stresses you have, not to mention all the down time of your car.

98Cobra281 seems to be a gear head, 1320 guy. His car is a showcase car for NPI power. We're all pulling for him, but that doesn't mean it is the best option for a 2v car for "bragging rights"

The "average" 2v owner is not going to go 11's NA. We have a couple guys here, Ninjastang, 98cobra281, etc. Dedicated guys. Quite a few guys have done it for many years, if you look at Bill Putnam's official ET list.

But I would never suggest it to somebody that isn't a die hard racer. 11's NA are just not going to happen in a 2v unless the owner/driver is truely dedicated to making many passes and suffering through the down time and learning curve.

I don't mean to discourage the NA option, but just know that is often takes trial and error. High RPM launches on sticky tires, broken rear ends/axles, clutces, etc.

 

[ninjastang125]

Well put Mark, and boy does the down time suck but its going to be worth it though when I get that 11 second slip. I figure to go 11s na on a 2v you are going to have to have the "driver mod" or more money then the next guy. Even with better parts you still have to find your cars sweet spot. Like you said high rpm launches on slicks, powershifting every gear. Practice! I did a lot of research when I wanted to hit 12s na and read Bills how to on the subject and if I would've have slicks with my bolt ons I could have had it. 11s is a lot harder then a lot of people think on motor. But the look on others face when you say that's all motor is worth all the time and work, when you could have just thrown a blower on and been almost where you are at on motor.