Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

joetrainer31 · Jul 8, 2016

Update: Vacuum.

Think I just solved the faint whistling noise (i.e., vacuum leak)! A friend suggested that I check the PCV system for proper installation since there have been several redues.

I checked the system and the grommet was butter loose in the manifold, the PCV was butter loose in the grommet, and the vacuum hose was butter loose on the PCV. Since this is the second aftermarket PCV grommet on this manifold (and I had 2 on a previous manifold), I went to the dealer for better part fitment.

The dealer grommet fit more securely in the manifold and the PCV fit more securely into the grommet. Then, I got smaller (i.e., 3/8"), better quality vacuum hose for the hookup. This seemed to resolve the problem. In order to double check for leaks I took a can of carb cleaned and sprayed around various vacuum hoses and the plenum to manifold connection. I did not observe any engine fluctuations at this time. Once I corrected this issue the car also idles a little cooler.

Then, because I was there and go faster I bumped the timing to 14* BTDC, adjusted the idle down a bit, and verified TPS voltage which was at 1.01 volts. From what I've read that voltage should be fine. Although, I'm open to data backed correction.

Lastly, you might ask how I got a dealer PCV grommet for a 1990 Mustang when Ford has a 10 year obsolescence program. Well, I didn't. I got a grommet for a 2001 Ford Explorer 5.0. In case you go looking for the same thing here is the part number:

joetrainer31 · Jul 8, 2016

Update: Vacuum Test Drive.

Took the car on a test drive after PCV grommet & hose R&R, and timing increase. I observed:

1) Cooler idle and running temps after vacuum fix (even w/increased timing)
2) Rock steady idle and idle recovery after vacuum fix.
3) More healthy sounding engine after vacuum fix.
4) Noticeable increase in performance with timing bumped to 14* BTDC.

Interestingly, there is no pre detonation sound at all, even at WOT up to the redline. This is interesting because I have about 10:1 compression and am running 87 octane. It seems that it's true that aluminum heads allow you to run more timing than cast iron heads. I know with my old cast iron heads that I could not think of running 14* timing with 87 octane and stock compression.

Side note: I am running a stock cam w/1.72 RRs if that helps shed any light on why I can run higher timing on 87 octane.

CarMichael Angelo · Jul 9, 2016

joetrainer31 said:
Update: Vacuum Test Drive.

Took the car on a test drive after PCV grommet & hose R&R, and timing increase. I observed:

1) Cooler idle and running temps after vacuum fix (even w/increased timing)
2) Rock steady idle and idle recovery after vacuum fix.
3) More healthy sounding engine after vacuum fix.
4) Noticeable increase in performance with timing bumped to 14* BTDC.

Interestingly, there is no pre detonation sound at all, even at WOT up to the redline. This is interesting because I have about 10:1 compression and am running 87 octane. It seems that it's true that aluminum heads allow you to run more timing than cast iron heads. I know with my old cast iron heads that I could not think of running 14* timing with 87 octane and stock compression.

Side note: I am running a stock cam w/1.72 RRs if that helps shed any light on why I can run higher timing on 87 octane.

The only thing that I could point to that allows that would be the aluminum head. A stock cam actually has the effect of having more compression than one with a lot of duration and overlap, as those cams will allow cylinder pressure to escape as a direct result of hanging the valve open longer.

joetrainer31 · Jul 9, 2016

madmike1157 said:
The only thing that I could point to that allows that would be the aluminum head. A stock cam actually has the effect of having more compression than one with a lot of duration and overlap, as those cams will allow cylinder pressure to escape as a direct result of hanging the valve open longer.

Interesting.

Here's a riddle for you I have not figured out. When assembling the engine we found that, even with stock heads and stock length pushrods, the RRs needed 90 thousandths of shims in order to get compression. We thought maybe those heads were bad and installed the aluminum units I have now (i.e., X307). It was the same result w/o the shims. The motor would not start w/o the shims and we did a leak down test w/o the shims to confirm that there was no compression.

I called the engine builder and asked him if he decked the block. I told him what we were observing, except I left out the info about the stock heads. He said that he only decked the block about 5-8 thousandths and that the problem must be my heads. At that point I realized that he either didn't know what he was talking about, or didn't want to tell me.

So, do you have an idea as to what is happening? The components are:

- 308cid
- Ford X307 heads
- stock length hardened pushrods from LMR
- 1.72 RRs
- stock cam

A5literMan · Jul 9, 2016

The only thing I can come up with is the rocker arms increased valve lift AND he may have decked it slightly more than that. If it's running well then I wouldn't worry about it. You've put a lot of blood/time into this build. Congrats and enjoy!

joetrainer31 · Jul 9, 2016

A5literMan said:
The only thing I can come up with is the rocker arms increased valve lift AND he may have decked it slightly more than that. If it's running well then I wouldn't worry about it. You've put a lot of blood/time into this build. Congrats and enjoy!

That's kind of where I have landed. I'm thinking he decked it more than he's saying. I mean, it's a stock cam, stock length pushrods, and heads that accept those components. I've had the same RR's on other cars with stock components and never needed shims. It seems that process of elimination points to a decked block.

Thanks for the encouragement and advise. I'll do just that.

joetrainer31 · Jul 10, 2016

Question:

Considering the amount of money, time, and effort put into restomodding these cars I would hate to get into an accident. I'm sure insurance payout would be pitiful. Does anyone have a special plan for classic cars (i.e., 20+ years old)?

A5literMan · Jul 10, 2016

@FoxMustangLvr just went through this. Maybe he will chime in. I went with my regular provider. Basically you have to send pictures,info,etc etc and they will work with you on an agreed upon replacement value and you'll pay accordingly. There is a big problem with daily driving them though. Most limit mileage severely.

CarMichael Angelo · Jul 10, 2016

joetrainer31 said:
Question:

Considering the amount of money, time, and effort put into restomodding these cars I would hate to get into an accident. I'm sure insurance payout would be pitiful. Does anyone have a special plan for classic cars (i.e., 20+ years old)?

Your regular ins provider probably has a "specilaized, stated coverage" policy available. I was able to get coverage for the last car stated at 20k replacement for a minimal cost. They did restrict mileage to like 5000 mi annually though.

I had to take the car to their "guy", that built street rods as a profession. He inspected it, asked me what I was stating value at and agreed that I was on par. It was easy.

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 10, 2016

A5literMan said:
@FoxMustangLvr just went through this. Maybe he will chime in. I went with my regular provider. Basically you have to send pictures,info,etc etc and they will work with you on an agreed upon replacement value and you'll pay accordingly. There is a big problem with daily driving them though. Most limit mileage severely.

Thanks for the nod. I looked in to Grundy, somebody else (I forget their name) and Hagerty. Grundy pretty much was against ever driving your car to work and wanted a specific number for miles. Same with the "other" insurance that @bird_dog0347 referred to me. Hagerty gave me unlimited pleasure miles, drive to work twice a week plus $15k agreed value for $45 per month. I also checked with our primary insurance provider for our daily drivers and home insurance and they couldn't even come close. I also have towing and a 100/300 policy.

Get insured bro!

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 10, 2016

I didn't spell it out it FYI I went with Hagerty.

joetrainer31 · Jul 11, 2016

FoxMustangLvr said:
I didn't spell it out it FYI I went with Hagerty.

Thanks guys for your input. @FoxMustangLvr, I'll be checking this out as it sounds very interesting.

joetrainer31 · Jul 11, 2016

Question to all:

We may be moving to an area where smog is not a concern. Therefore, I am debating whether or not to run an aftermarket H-Pipe. My current set-up is a factory H-pipe with 2 front functioning cats (i.e., new 3 way cats). The rears were blown out a long time ago.

20 years ago I ran an aftermarket H-pipe like everyone else did. I remember a slight exhaust smell while in a drive-through. I don't remember that it was too bad, but that was 20 years ago. Memories and current tolerances can change.

What are the pros & cons of A) the set-up I currently have, B) an aftermarket?

I do not want my clothes and hair to smell like exhaust fumes. I do not know if that will automatically happen, though, with an aftermarket H-pipe.

GO!

Chuckman · Jul 11, 2016

I've ran both, if the tune on the engine is decent enough, you won't get too much gas stink, but there will still be a different odor for sure. I know @MFE92 did a pretty good write up on corral on the magnaflow spun-mettalic cats, if I were building a pure cruiser/driver that's the way I would go.

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 11, 2016

joetrainer31 said:
Question to all:

We may be moving to an area where smog is not a concern. Therefore, I am debating whether or not to run an aftermarket H-Pipe. My current set-up is a factory H-pipe with 2 front functioning cats (i.e., new 3 way cats). The rears were blown out a long time ago.

20 years ago I ran an aftermarket H-pipe like everyone else did. I remember a slight exhaust smell while in a drive-through. I don't remember that it was too bad, but that was 20 years ago. Memories and current tolerances can change.

What are the pros & cons of A) the set-up I currently have, B) an aftermarket?

I do not want my clothes and hair to smell like exhaust fumes. I do not know if that will automatically happen, though, with an aftermarket H-pipe.

GO!

Results and tolerance varies. What I may think is a slight exhaust smell may make a tree hugger wet his panties and move back to San Francisco. Some people lately have gone to an o/r H or X pipe and then had some hi-flow cats welded in which made everything better but not sure if it's worth all the expense over staying stock. I have a 2.5" o/r H pipe and the little bit of fumes are tolerable to me.

joetrainer31 · Jul 11, 2016

Ok. I do realize its a subjective question to a large degree. In order to give more details: The stock pipe had 2 cats installed for me while I managed the Meineke (at no charge). I can get a new o/r H-pipe at no charge (LMR gift card), and install it myself. So, the cost isn't really there -if that helps.

I'm mostly concerned about too many fumes entering the cabin. My car is running fine, everything is new, and all the vac leaks are handled (thank the Lord). Also, I just insulated the cabin and trunk, and all the weather stripping is new too. The seal should be pretty good. I'm trying to get a consensus on the typical results (if possible). What I don't want is a drastic increase in smell. What I do like is the sound and performance gain.

So I guess the root comparison is: Are the performance gains over the current set-up (if any), and sound worth the additional fumes (unless they are negligible); on average. Does that make sense?

bird_dog0347 · Jul 11, 2016

On the insurance I went with Continental Western Group (CWG) based on my agent having really good experiences with them before. I pay $160 a Year for and agreed value of $15k and I can drive 5k miles per year but must keep it garaged at home. They never said I can't drive it to work nor did they ask about it. I had to send in pics but it wasn't a big deal.

As for the cats and exhaust, I put long tubes and an OR H pipe on mine and hated the smell so I bought the flowmaster high-flow cats from LMR and welded them into my h pipe... no more smell and very little noticeable horsepower loss although that was with stock heads and cam so not sure now... Funny thing is on my daily 2014 GT I put an OR X pipe on there and gained a ton of power and love the sound without too bad of a smell. I guess the coyote is just much cleaner burning than my old pushrod 5.0 is.

A5literMan · Jul 11, 2016

joetrainer31 said:
Ok. I do realize its a subjective question to a large degree. In order to give more details: The stock pipe had 2 cats installed for me while I managed the Meineke (at no charge). I can get a new o/r H-pipe at no charge (LMR gift card), and install it myself. So, the cost isn't really there -if that helps.

I'm mostly concerned about too many fumes entering the cabin. My car is running fine, everything is new, and all the vac leaks are handled (thank the Lord). Also, I just insulated the cabin and trunk, and all the weather stripping is new too. The seal should be pretty good. I'm trying to get a consensus on the typical results (if possible). What I don't want is a drastic increase in smell. What I do like is the sound and performance gain.

So I guess the root comparison is: Are the performance gains over the current set-up (if any), and sound worth the additional fumes (unless they are negligible); on average. Does that make sense?

I've thrown o/r h pipes on every mustang I've owned and have had no issues with them. That said there really isn't a performance advantage and it does raise the "smell" slightly. It also changes the exhaust note(main reason I've done them). Is it worth it for you? Probably not but I always have ran them.

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 11, 2016

On my latest Fox when I changed my exhaust to the o/r pipe I did get more of an exhaust smell but what made it really bad for me what my hatch and door seals were shot so the smell was inside my car. After new seals there is no smell inside even if i'm sitting still with my windows down. I've never kept my cats on any of my Fox's.

Chuckman · Jul 11, 2016

Whether you have dumps or full tailpipes also makes a huge difference too. The further from the cabin you can get the exhaust to exit the better. I never really noticed a smell inside the car (full Gt tails) but standing behind the car could sometimes make me feel like I was cutting an onion

Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

joetrainer31

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

joetrainer31

bird_dog0347

still married haven't seen testicles in years

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

Similar threads

Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

At least it is lumpy...

At least it is lumpy...

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

I love my Pimp

I love my Pimp

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

I love my Pimp

still married haven't seen testicles in years

At least it is lumpy...

I love my Pimp

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

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