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Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

  • Thread starter Thread starter joetrainer31
  • Start date Start date Mar 13, 2015
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joetrainer31

15 Year Member
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Sep 4, 2016
#621
  • Sep 4, 2016
  • #621
skyline247 said:
Man, you don't seem to catch a break sometimes. Starting from a new motorcraft water pump seems like a good idea. The rear brake cylinder issue is just a bad miss by the shop that worked on it and the TOB is a toss up until you can take a look at it. It sounds like a gear swap will be worth it to you. I wouldn't do it because of the drone alone but it looks like you have other considerations. I would just double check how much your rpms will change with the swap to make sure it's a significant enough change for you.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Yes, the brake cylinders were due to laziness or lacking observational skills. Although, the rear brakes had to be rebuilt from the ground up as the car came with none. I'm not sure how one would miss replacing those cylinders.

As it turns out the new shop said that the old TOB seems to have been defective internally. I'm still waiting on the pump R&R. They've had the car a week. All but the pump have been R&R'd thus far. The shop is always slammed...like standing room only slammed, like find a place on the street to park slammed. So, I hope that means they are reliable and do a good job.

As for the gears. I will see about 400 RPMs difference (lower) in 5th gear at highway speeds. On one hand that doesn't sound like a lot. On the other hand if you figure that lower RPM range over the course of 10 hours driving time per day it could start to add up. I'll play it by ear at when the time comes to fix those axle seals. If it seems to be an easy swap (i.e., parts all ready to go, no real hassle), then I'll swap to the 327s.
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
5 Year Member
Jul 30, 2011
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Illinois
Sep 4, 2016
#622
  • Sep 4, 2016
  • #622
That gear swap isn't really going to change much for noise,mpg,or city driving. Not saying you may or may not like them more. It is really only a couple hundred rpm on the highway and top speed is imperceptible in 1st. Is it worth it for the few hundred in cost? Not to me. The ford WP is a good choice.
 
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joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
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Sep 4, 2016
#623
  • Sep 4, 2016
  • #623
A5literMan said:
That gear swap isn't really going to change much for noise,mpg,or city driving. Not saying you may or may not like them more. It is really only a couple hundred rpm on the highway and top speed is imperceptible in 1st. Is it worth it for the few hundred in cost? Not to me. The ford WP is a good choice.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.

The idea for the gear swap is because of three factors:
1) Axle seals being warrantied (diff already opened).
2) 3,000 mile drive coming up.
3) Longer hywy commutes could be in my future.

Does this impact your thoughts at all?
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
5 Year Member
Jul 30, 2011
4,674
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194
Illinois
Sep 4, 2016
#624
  • Sep 4, 2016
  • #624
Not really. Going to see only 200rpm difference on hwy so no impact on mpg. Nor the effect on city manners. But that's me. It really will be a negligible difference.
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
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Sep 4, 2016
#625
  • Sep 4, 2016
  • #625
A5literMan said:
Not really. Going to see only 200rpm difference on hwy so no impact on mpg. Nor the effect on city manners. But that's me. It really will be a negligible difference.
Click to expand...
Okay. That's helpful. I thought it might be more like 400 RPMs on the highway.
 
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skyline247

Advanced Member
Jul 28, 2014
816
225
73
Cincinnati, OH
Sep 5, 2016
#626
  • Sep 5, 2016
  • #626
joetrainer31 said:
Thanks for the reply. Yes, the brake cylinders were due to laziness or lacking observational skills. Although, the rear brakes had to be rebuilt from the ground up as the car came with none. I'm not sure how one would miss replacing those cylinders.

As it turns out the new shop said that the old TOB seems to have been defective internally. I'm still waiting on the pump R&R. They've had the car a week. All but the pump have been R&R'd thus far. The shop is always slammed...like standing room only slammed, like find a place on the street to park slammed. So, I hope that means they are reliable and do a good job.

As for the gears. I will see about 400 RPMs difference (lower) in 5th gear at highway speeds. On one hand that doesn't sound like a lot. On the other hand if you figure that lower RPM range over the course of 10 hours driving time per day it could start to add up. I'll play it by ear at when the time comes to fix those axle seals. If it seems to be an easy swap (i.e., parts all ready to go, no real hassle), then I'll swap to the 327s.
Click to expand...
I hope this shop does a good job so that you can avoid further issues (at least with those components). What A5literMan pointed out about the gear swap is what I was worried about. A 200 rpm drop may reduce the drone a little bit but I don't think you'll really see the benefits you're hoping for. You may need to go to a 3:08:1 to start seeing a substantial difference. What do you think @A5literMan?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
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TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
20+ Year Stangneter
Nov 29, 1999
8,485
8,709
234
S.I.NY
Sep 5, 2016
#627
  • Sep 5, 2016
  • #627
For what it's worth - I have used 23 dollar brand new Bosch pumps on every motor from pep boys with no issue . They are not re mans .

The only grease you use on the TOB is on the input shaft it self. It may be bad due to using a China bearing . Not sure what you use but I try to stick to SKF or Timken .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
 
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joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
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Sep 5, 2016
#628
  • Sep 5, 2016
  • #628
skyline247 said:
I hope this shop does a good job so that you can avoid further issues (at least with those components). What A5literMan pointed out about the gear swap is what I was worried about. A 200 rpm drop may reduce the drone a little bit but I don't think you'll really see the benefits you're hoping for. You may need to go to a 3:08:1 to start seeing a substantial difference. What do you think @A5literMan?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Not sure I'd want to go to a 308:1 ratio. Funny thing, back in 1993, when I bought my first 5.0 I thought the 308 rear was fine. If there is only 200 RPM difference then it doesn't seem worth the swap even if the diff is opened up.

Yes, I hope this shop does well too! They've had it since last Monday. If they work slow, but do the job right the first time I can deal with that.
 
Reactions: skyline247 and A5literMan

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
114
SC
Sep 5, 2016
#629
  • Sep 5, 2016
  • #629
TOOLOW91 said:
For what it's worth - I have used 23 dollar brand new Bosch pumps on every motor from pep boys with no issue . They are not re mans .

The only grease you use on the TOB is on the input shaft it self. It may be bad due to using a China bearing . Not sure what you use but I try to stick to SKF or Timken .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
Click to expand...
The shop said the bearing seems to have failed internally. Probably a China unit.
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
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Sep 6, 2016
#630
  • Sep 6, 2016
  • #630
skyline247 said:
Man, you don't seem to catch a break sometimes. Starting from a new motorcraft water pump seems like a good idea. The rear brake cylinder issue is just a bad miss by the shop that worked on it and the TOB is a toss up until you can take a look at it. It sounds like a gear swap will be worth it to you. I wouldn't do it because of the drone alone but it looks like you have other considerations. I would just double check how much your rpms will change with the swap to make sure it's a significant enough change for you.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I really appreciate your care for my crazy scenario with this car!

I was just thinking that this [is] actually me catching a break. I mean, what if I found these things out in the middle of nowhere in New Mexico! What if these problems manifested themselves in a more severe way. I've driven through NM before and I must say, there are stretches of 200 miles where you see no civilization, except for a derelict trailer about 100 yards off the side of the road...like a picture out of a horror movie.

While no one likes repairs for the 4th or 5th time I am grateful to the Lord that these problems are happening now!
 
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joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
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Sep 8, 2016
#631
  • Sep 8, 2016
  • #631
Update: 540 miles

Got the car back from the new shop. My initial impression is that they did a good job and that they pay attention to detail. It took them awhile but they got a Motorcraft, not Motorsport, water pump for replacement. It was actually the last one in the area. While they were in there they noticed that the water pump bolts looked old and questionable so they replaced them (details).

While R&Ring the rear brake cylinders they said that they kept running into problem after problem with the hardware and the [wrong] way it was adjusted. They said the problems kept unraveling like an onion. So, they went ahead and replaced all the hardware while R&Ring the cylinders (details). The brake pedal feels much better now. They adjusted the E-brake to catch half way up, but its gone back up to grabbing at the top. I called the shop owner and told him. He wants me to come back next week so he can personally readjust the E-brake. He said if it's not operating like its from the factory he isn't happy (details).

Lastly, they R&Red the throwout bearing. The old one was defective. While in there they noticed the brand new rear main seal was starting to leak so they replaced it (details). They also went ahead and replaced the pilot bearing to match the throwout bearing (details).

Come Monday I take the car back to the rear end guys to warranty the axle seals. I hope to get some pics for entertainment value.

Stay tuned...
 
Reactions: A5literMan, hoopty5.0, skyline247 and 3 others

skyline247

Advanced Member
Jul 28, 2014
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Cincinnati, OH
Sep 8, 2016
#632
  • Sep 8, 2016
  • #632
That's great! It sounds like you found a good shop.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
114
SC
Sep 12, 2016
#633
  • Sep 12, 2016
  • #633
Update: Axles Sealed.

Because the new shop told me that both my axle seals were leaking I elected to take the car back to the shop that did the entire rear end rebuild: Ramjet Rear End. These guys have done rear ends and gear swaps for Galpin Ford (#1 dealer in country) for decades, did all the Fast & Furious Cars, and does Nascar rears.

Eddie, the owner, got me on the rack immediately. He said that he found it hard to believe that both axle seals were leaking. Nevertheless, He raised the car, pulled off the wheels and drums, and he and I inspected each side. Below are the results:

The orientation is on the driver's side looking at the seal. On the right is the shoe and on the left is the axle's end with wheel studs. As you can see it is BONE DRY.


Passenger's side, same type of orientation, and BONE DRY.


We also checked the pinion seal and diff cover. Both were BONE DRY. I told Eddie that they would have cleaned the area with brake cleaner when R&Ring the brake cylinders and that I have driven 20 miles since then. He assured me that 20 miles would've been sufficient time for a leak to manifest if it was going to do so. He said, as is observable, everything in the area is completely dry.

So, thank the Lord that everything is fine. My next question is: was the other shop simply mistaken or deceptive?
 
Reactions: A5literMan, Davedacarpainter and skyline247

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
15 Year Member
Dec 14, 2010
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Sep 13, 2016
#634
  • Sep 13, 2016
  • #634
Id go with mistaken. Maybe he saw that the seals appear to have grease on them and are leaking. Just a guess..
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
114
SC
Sep 13, 2016
#635
  • Sep 13, 2016
  • #635
hoopty5.0 said:
Id go with mistaken. Maybe he saw that the seals appear to have grease on them and are leaking. Just a guess..
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm cautiously going with mistaken. The brake cylinders were leaking. Maybe some of that leak was on the seals and misidentified as seal leak?
 
Reactions: A5literMan and hoopty5.0

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
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SC
Sep 17, 2016
#636
  • Sep 17, 2016
  • #636
Update: Gimme a brake, E-brake that is.

Ok, got the E brake working properly. The previous shop, as I suspected, put a cheapo after market E brake cable on that was too long. The new shop added a spacer at the "Y" junction to change the handle leverage point.

When I got my car back after the throw out bearing R&R I noticed that the initial noise was gone, but a new gear turning type noise had appeared in the trans. I drove it about 20 miles like that and took it back to the shop explaining that the noise had appeared directly after they did the throw out bearing.

The owner suggested I put synthetic fluid in the gear box. I informed him that Royal Purple Synchromesh was already in the trans. Then, I asked if maybe, when they removed the trans, and when some of the fluid came out of the tail shaft a VSS hole, that they forgot to refill it all the way. He said they refilled it, but that they used the normal fluid that the gear box takes. At this point he and I were suspicious that there are two different kinds of fluids in the gear box that might be causing this noise. Therefore, I got 3 new bottles of Synchromesh and they will change out the fluid for me no charge.

I'm REALLY hoping that another shop has not made a crucial mistake that will cost me thousands. I'm seeing that the norm is: do it yourself the first time or do it twice (or more times). Yet, some jobs are too involved to do in a parking lot.

How about you guys? Is it just really bad in SoCal, or is it everywhere?
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
869
364
114
SC
Sep 17, 2016
#637
  • Sep 17, 2016
  • #637
Update: Quiet

The fresh batch of Synchromesh stopped the new trans noise. Mixing the two fluids probably was the issue.

In case anyone was wondering about the Motorcraft water pump, it's totally worth any additional cost and/or headache to obtain. It keeps my car about 15 degrees cooler than the parts house pump.

Stay tuned for updates (hopefully pics of a cross country drive in a fox body).
 
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joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
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Sep 23, 2016
#638
  • Sep 23, 2016
  • #638
Update: Rev Happy at 620 miles.

Ok, so the idle keeps creeping up. It's at about 900 right now. Also, while driving and shifting gears, when I step on the clutch to shift the RPMs will bump up a few hundred RPMs and stay there until I put it in the next gear.

This is a bit discouraging as I fixed this problem three times before (maybe more). However, the car has been to a shop recently. Everytime, the car goes to a shop it comes back with additional problems.

My first step is to check all air intake clamps for tightness. I've noticed that parts house clamps, regardless of name brand, are junk and loosen up on their own. Then, I plan on scanning for codes. Depending on the results I'll spray carb cleaner around the engine bay to see if any vacuum leaks are present. Since everything on the car is new, and some things several times over, there is a bit of confusion and irritation on my part.

Any suggestions?
 

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
15 Year Member
Dec 14, 2010
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Sep 23, 2016
#639
  • Sep 23, 2016
  • #639
Try codes first.
 

joetrainer31

15 Year Member
Mar 31, 2013
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Sep 23, 2016
#640
  • Sep 23, 2016
  • #640
hoopty5.0 said:
Try codes first.
Click to expand...
Getting ready to walk my sorry bahind out there in a few in check...
 
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