Fox Need advise on front suspension setup

mob · Feb 6, 2022

7991LXnSHO said:
I understand the wheel or tire is rubbing on the coil over. Is that right? If so, then it’s math time, specifically geometry. (Sorry @General karthief , it has to be done.)

If you have a shorter lower arm, that should bring the spindle in and make for less coil clearance. Here is why.

The arm, the strut, and a line from the inner pivot point of the arm to the center of the top strut mount make the three legs of a triangle. For simplicity of terms, assume it is a right angle triangle. The arm is the base, and the spring wrapped strut is the hypotenuse. If you make the base shorter, the angle between the base and the hypotenuse is less acute, and that pulls the hub and wheel closer to the strut. The hypotenuse becomes more vertical, with less clearance by the time it gets to the rim and tire.
You need to either move the hub out, use one spacer, or fix the offset of the wheel.
As for economics, if you do not want new wheels and tires now, I’d run a spacer on for street driving and fix whatever else needs it first.
Moving the top strut mount in, loosening the strut bolts, and prying the spindle away at the top (especially with slotted strut holes) can gain some clearance on a stock like set up. (That’s moving the top of the triangle in while keeping the spindle and strut vertical.) I do not know how your coil overs are mounted, so that might not be possible to adjust now.

Thanks for the info. Looks like I was thinking about the geometry all wrong.

7991LXnSHO · Feb 6, 2022

General karthief said:
Yeah, my cartoon mind went to sht on that, will a longer lower control arm work? Is the sn95 lower arm longer?

The longer control arm is at least in the right direction. I cannot say for sure it will be enough of an angle change to get 1/2” of clearance.
The spacer or right offset wheels are the best solution if the coil overs cannot be angled in more.

manicmechanic007 · Feb 6, 2022

400 bucks and how much labor
You got the wheels free?
There are ways to fix what ya done
You going to put used struts back on the car?

7991LXnSHO · Feb 6, 2022

General karthief said:
Yeah, my cartoon mind went to sht on that, will a longer lower control arm work? Is the sn95 lower arm longer?

PowerPoint slides or an overhead projector would have helped.

mob · Feb 6, 2022

manicmechanic007 said:
400 bucks and how much labor - Free labor
You got the wheels free? - No I didn't, I bought them new about 12 years ago
There are ways to fix what ya done - Understood
You going to put used struts back on the car? - I would probably buy new cheap struts if I put springs back in it, I don't have the old parts and I wouldn't buy used struts

mob · Feb 6, 2022

I think I've decided on proper fitting spacers. The best solution would be to get wheels that fit but I am not getting new wheels until I go 5-lug, which isn't now. So spacers it is.

OldManRiver · Feb 6, 2022

That's the right move,going backwards and putting stock springs/struts back on would be foolish.

mob · Feb 6, 2022

@KRUISR I stopped by the storage today, here is what mine looks like. I am starting to wonder if just a 1/4" spacer would do it. I am going to do a test fit next week.

General karthief · Feb 6, 2022

The tie rod looks odd.

foxbodybill89 · Feb 6, 2022

Personally I'd avoid spacers at all costs unless you're talking like a 1/8 or 1/4 just to tweak fit, put your stock stuff back on and save your pennies for a properly fitting setup. Unfortunately, throwing on some used odds and ends from another car does not work for reasons like this. Suspension mods have to be well planned out and include things like spindles and wheel selection to make everything fit properly. There's no shortcuts to be had especially going to coilovers.

mob · Feb 6, 2022

foxbodybill89 said:
Personally I'd avoid spacers at all costs unless you're talking like a 1/8 or 1/4 just to tweak fit, put your stock stuff back on and save your pennies for a properly fitting setup. Unfortunately, throwing on some used odds and ends from another car does not work for reasons like this. Suspension mods have to be well planned out and include things like spindles and wheel selection to make everything fit properly. There's no shortcuts to be had especially going to coilovers.

It works fine, it's not a suspension issue, it's a wheel offset issue. I would have the same problem if I bought a slip on coilover kit designed for fox struts and didn't pull these off another car. New spindles aren't required for coilovers, I just need better fitting wheels. I don't have the stock stuff, so spending money to go backwards isn't what I want to do.

Everything I've read says wheels spacers are safe, why avoid at all costs?

General karthief · Feb 6, 2022

A 1 /2 inch spacer (hub centric) is not unreasonable to me, a crutch but not a big deal, I wouldn't do it but that's me, see if there is any adjustment on the strut to spindle bolts, check to see if the top of the tire is not tipped in, best backyard advice I can give.
I agree with not using used parts from another car.
sn95 front end is slightly different from the fox cars which may be what is causing your problems.
Now about that tie rod end, is it mounted on top or bottom of the spindle?

manicmechanic007 · Feb 6, 2022

A spacer will wear out the outer wheel bearing sooner
Not a big deal each one but there are several reasons spacers are a bad idea
+1 the tipped in tire at the top
The camber should be -.5 degree
There should be some slop (play) in the strut bolts to spindle (bigger bolt holes than bolts diameter)
Pull the wheel away from the strut with the bolts loose and then re torque them

KRUISR · Feb 6, 2022

A quick question ... do you have offset rack bushings? If so, are they offsetting the rack down? If they are, I would recommend offsetting the rack up. This will get your tie rod arm more parallel to the control arm line between bushing and ball joint. This will help with any bump steer you may be experiencing.

General karthief said:
The tie rod looks odd.

Looks fine to me. We just can't see the ball joint portion.

@mob ... I would get the alignment before further messing with wheel spacers, because to get proper camber/caster the strut/coil may need to be closer to the rim/tire. Just my 2 cents

mob · Feb 6, 2022

General karthief said:
A 1 /2 inch spacer (hub centric) is not unreasonable to me, a crutch but not a big deal, I wouldn't do it but that's me, see if there is any adjustment on the strut to spindle bolts, check to see if the top of the tire is not tipped in, best backyard advice I can give.
I agree with not using used parts from another car.
sn95 front end is slightly different from the fox cars which may be what is causing your problems.
Now about that tie rod end, is it mounted on top or bottom of the spindle?

It's put on correctly, the car is just too low which I think is giving it the angle. Next week I am lifting the car back up to a proper ride height. 10 yrs ago I thought it was cool to slam it, now I can't even fit a jack under it.

OldManRiver · Feb 6, 2022

Camber adjustment up top won't affect the spring to tire clearance.Both are attached to the spindle so that relationship can't change.
If the strut attachment hole is slotted,loosening the strut and pulling out on the hub/tire can gain you a small amount of added clearance.

mob · Feb 6, 2022

KRUISR said:
A quick question ... do you have offset rack bushings? If so, are they offsetting the rack down? If they are, I would recommend offsetting the rack up. This will get your tie rod arm more parallel to the control arm line between bushing and ball joint. This will help with any bump steer you may be experiencing.

Looks fine to me. We just can't see the ball joint portion.

@mob ... I would get the alignment before further messing with wheel spacers, because to get proper camber/caster the strut/coil may need to be closer to the rim/tire. Just my 2 cents

Car is just too low, I am going to raise it back up. and that makes sense about the alignment

7991LXnSHO · Feb 7, 2022

OldManRiver said:
Camber adjustment up top won't affect the spring to tire clearance.Both are attached to the spindle so that relationship can't change.
If the strut attachment hole is slotted,loosening the strut and pulling out on the hub/tire can gain you a small amount of added clearance.

That’s what two of us said to do.

mob · Feb 7, 2022

7991LXnSHO said:
That’s what two of us said to do.

I'll give it a shot when I jack the car back up

7991LXnSHO · Feb 7, 2022

mob said:
I'll give it a shot when I jack the car back up

Some of the strut to spindles holes are pre slotted. Some need a die grinder for slotting. The bolts should be really tight, and factory ones are held with loctite.

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