Need help on selecting Stroker shortblock to fit AFR 165 heads

[Green Machine]

I want to make more hp and I know the lower block wont take it. i.e. SC

My question is which of the 3 sizes of short block will work best with my AFR 165 heads and Eldebrock Performer intake ? See sig. for more details.

My 94 GT has ~128k miles on it. Put down 281/308 with timing set 10*and an o/r Pro Chamber. I took that off and put bassani o/r x-pipe back on and bumped timing to 12* It really pulls better now, and thats with the stock cam and 24lb injectors.

So, the best option I can come up with is a CHP Pro Street short block. They advertise the 306ci for 2499.99 - the 331ci for 2599.99 and the 347ci for 2599.99. I figure I can use everything from the heads up.

I do plan to upgrade to an 80mm MAF / 70mm TB and a Ed Curtis Cam.

Thanks in advance your help. Dewman

 

[wytstang]

I think the 306 would work best with the 165's. The others may need more flow than what those heads can provide.

 

[Green Machine]

It looks that way.

I searched and found one post where ther recommended the AFR 185's for a 331 or 347. Of course the sales dude said 'sure the 165's would work with the 347'. He didn't say how well though.

Anyway, If I went with the 306 pro street I know I could crank out some serious hp with it and a Ed Curtis cam / bigger TB and 80mm Maf. Then add a SC with 12-14lbs ob boost.

 

[Killercanary]

The 165's ARE better suited for a 302/306 combo and you really should have at least a 185 for a 331/347, but you don't HAVE to. I've tossed the idea around a few times on putting my combo ontop of a 331/347 based stroker, it wouldn't be optimized but it'd be a torque bugger!

 

[Green Machine]

You're right. I've been looking for a 5.0 Mustang article, and I found it. This was back in Sept 2001. They did a compare of different intakes on a 347 motor from Panhandle Performance with Bassani LT's and 30lb injectors.

The Eldelbrock Performer was tested and it put down 432lbs torque and 409 rwhp. I'm going to check to see if Panhandle has any info on the size heads they used.

Thanks for the reply !

 

[wytstang]

I think Panhandle Performance ports all the heads so you may want to see if they ported that performer.

 

[Killercanary]

IF you are in lakeland hell just go over and ask the editors of the mag themselves! LOL! You do know you are in a hotspot for primemedia magazines right?

 

[Grn92LX]

Get a 347 shortblock and put everything on it. The shortblock is your foundation you can improve down the road if you desire. Even with the 165's with a good intake like a rpm II/75mm tb you'd easily hit 360rwhp with a decent cam. Why you'd even consider a 306 is beyond me. If you go the CHP route, your willing to give up 41 cubic inches to save $100? If $100 breaks your budget you need to find a new hobby like building little houses out of popcicle sticks

My 347 is in the machine shop, can't wait to have it in and running. I'm trying to make big power with a small head (TFS) Ed grinded me a nice aggressive cam

 

[final5-0]

Dewman

Sit down and relax as this is a little long.

Peeps usually ask what kind of "stuff" would work best with a xxx size block but I totally understand your Q as I too would like to find some more power but my "stuff" is 302 ci sized as well.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and everybody will most likely laugh me right out of this thread but with a fresh 306 b&b short block I think you can get 350 NA HP to the wheels based on some things I've discovered in the past couple of years.

A few thoughts before I list the combo parts.

Won't be emissions legal
Can't run the cheap gas
Idle rpm will be a little elevated
Drivability will be close to stock
Ed Curtis will cut the cam
Custom tune is a must
373's minimum better if 410's
Could be a dd but better if not
T 5 Trans

Here is the basic combo parts list

306 b&b block with about 10 to 1 comp
Windage tray
Your heads
FTI cam
Your intake ported but with RPM upper
LT's but not with ball/socket collectors
Off road mid pipe
2.5" catback
80mm ProM maf
75mm TB
30# inj's

Final thoughts

As for the tune and drivability issues I can only speak from my experience from self tuning with the Tweecer but I know the tune is I speak about is possible.

As for using ED for the cam and other advice about final details on things like compression, valve train, and the like ...... I know what to expect cause I've worked with him in the past and I know he can make what I'm talking about happen.

With the b&b block you can go a little higher on the rpm's and you will need to get Ed to go a step or two hotter on the cam specs than he usually does on most of the street combos you see on this site. Due to the extra rpm you may have to upgrade your springs.

I think your gonna have to idle at about 900 to 1000 rpm. A lower idle rpm is gonna cause too much cam lope and the air flow will be too unstable for the pcm no matter how you try to tune things.

I really do think drivability issues won't be that bad other than the higher idle rpm. For me to tune out all the drivability gremlins it would take some time as I'm kind of a perfectionist about those kind of things, lol. And it would take some time to get to know what the combo likes in the way of fuel & spark values.

After some time is spent on the street dialing in the tune, you will want to go to the dyno for the final few tweecs and get those all important rw hp&tq numbers, lol.

I know some will not agree with all of this but what I have proposed is the same combo as lots of other AFR/FTI combos but it has just a few differences that I believe will yield the extra HP I've talked about.

Later
Grady

 

[shelbe67]

the 165 will work like paul said it would be really torquey,which you might like actualy might be better for you if you dod alot of those stoplight wars lol with if I were you I would go with a 331 though they dont burn as much oil slightly better rod angle, I wouldnt worry to much about driveabilty either you can get a custom cam from ed the engine can handle a bigger cam than a 306 for the hundred bucks I think that you would be much happier with the 331 thats just my opinion

 

[Killercanary]

JFYI- My dad's '91 GT with FTI prepped holley systemax II heads, intake, and a custom FTI cam made 347rwhp/338rwtq recently. Its a STANDARD BORE 302, the bottom end is stock except for standard bore SRP pistons for PTV clearance. The car has run 117mph already and that was with less HP to the wheels than he has now.

 

[final5-0]

JFYI- My dad's '91 GT with FTI prepped holley systemax II heads, intake, and a custom FTI cam made 347rwhp/338rwtq recently. Its a STANDARD BORE 302, the bottom end is stock except for standard bore SRP pistons for PTV clearance. The car has run 117mph already and that was with less HP to the wheels than he has now.

Hey Paul

Thanks for that info and I'm curious about.........................

1 Would you say his cam specs are hotter than yours?

2 Does your dad drive his car on the street?

3 Any kind or tuning on his car like chip, EEC Tuner, etc?

If the answer to 1 & 2 is yes, how good is his drivability?

Later
Grady

 

[Killercanary]

Hey Paul

Thanks for that info and I'm curious about.........................

1 Would you say his cam specs are hotter than yours?

2 Does your dad drive his car on the street?

3 Any kind or tuning on his car like chip, EEC Tuner, etc?

If the answer to 1 & 2 is yes, how good is his drivability?

Later
Grady

Grady, I just saw this post now, sorry for the delay.

1. Yes, his specs are a bit more on the wild side than mine. Its not huge by any means, but its wilder than mine.

2. He used to, but for the most part no, the car is rarely street driven anymore. To break in the clutch he went out for a drive... and didn't come home for 4-5hrs and the car never missed a beat.

3. It had an autologic chip, now it has a SCT chip tuned by http://www.kauffmanmotorsports.com

The car has the inherent "herky jerky" feeling below 2200rpms, but after that it smooths right out and runs fine. The thing pulls surprisingly hard down low all things concidered, and it will pull clean to 7000rpms quicker than ****.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I do have to agree with Grady that with a nice aggressive cam a fresh 306 wouldnt have much trouble hitting 340-350rwhp and would run damn hard with say a 6,500 or so shift point. I would like a 347 that i could run hard up to 6,500rpm and make some good power.