Needed parts for quarter horse.

[Dontknowchit]

Been gathering info for what I want to do for my ECU solution. I was looking at the QH and confused on what all is needed. I understand the QH chip and installation as well as the binary editor dongle. Is there an additional chip that is also needed? Have seen people talk about j3, jaybird, eliminator, sct, and not sure what all that is and how it fits into the equation. I just want a single tune file not multiple I can select from at the track. Just a street car with a vortech. Trying to fix bad cold start, idle, over richness.

 

[GOvert]

@Dontknowchit For well over two years, I have been searching the internet about this topic. Since then, I've downloaded the TunerPro and TunerPro RT software/s. The QuarterHorse works well with TunerPro RT. As with anything tuning, there is a steep learning curve. I'm just now to the point of being able to use the hardware and software. The TunerPro RT software is also capable of programming bin files into external, add on J3 chips, that is with the proper programming tool. All EEC-IV and 1996-97 EEC-V pcms will need a J3 chip programmed with the final tune plugged onto the pcms J3 port. Todays
Modern J3 chips are reprogrammable.
I have been doing a lot of reading at efidynotuning.com and all over the internet in general.
Michael P (decipha) is a master Ford products tuner which this is a guess but probably has over 35 years' experience.

 

[Dontknowchit]

@Dontknowchit For well over two years, I have been searching the internet about this topic. Since then, I've downloaded the TunerPro and TunerPro RT software/s. The QuarterHorse works well with TunerPro RT. As with anything tuning, there is a steep learning curve. I'm just now to the point of being able to use the hardware and software. The TunerPro RT software is also capable of programming bin files into external, add on J3 chips, that is with the proper programming tool. All EEC-IV and 1996-97 EEC-V pcms will need a J3 chip programmed with the final tune plugged onto the pcms J3 port. Todays
Modern J3 chips are reprogrammable.
I have been doing a lot of reading at efidynotuning.com and all over the internet in general.
Michael P (decipha) is a master Ford products tuner which this is a guess but probably has over 35 years' experience.

I am trying to determine which way to go and cost is obviously always a big factor. The pricing of the MS2, MS3, Holley Term X, is rather straightforward. I'm happy to use old tech on a old car, especially since I'm not builoding a race car and trying to squeeze out every little pony. The fender has vanishing paint and I have visible primer, obvously needs lots of budget
The hardware costs for the QH is less clear. It seems to be for sale again from moates for about 250, then you need to get the binary editor software for ~120. If that is where it stops then that is a interesting value proposition, but if you also need an additional chip, plus a differnet software pack, extra cables, extra liscensesI think it starts to be a little less enticing.

So I guess I'm asking, what is the min hardware package to tune a fox on a QH?

Edit
I just found this:
" It is recommended to replace the quarterhorse with a moates f3 chip after you have completed your final tune or remove the quarterhorse and flash you final tune to EEC-Vs using an OBD-II cable. In either case the EEC-IV and EEC-V alternately accept moates J3 chips on the back of the ecu in lieu of realtime tuning which is not recommended when realtime tuning is available."

So sounds like the QH can't save a tune and you need another chip, but then it says this:

"If you are only tuning one EEC then all you need is one quarterhorse. If you own multiple vehicles then be sure to order a Jaybird Chip Programmer and a couple F3 chips from moates.net when ordering the QH. When you are done tuning your vehicle you simply write your final tune to an f3 chip and you can then use your quarterhorse to tune another vehicle. "

Which also is confusing if you need the add on chip or not.

 

[GOvert]

@Dontknowchit Say for instance, If you bought Just a Moates QuarterHorse and leave in place during your Real Time tuning and testing, then all you have to do is email your finalized bin file, saved from the QuarterHorse to me or anyone with a J3 chip programmer and the tune is put on the J3 chip. Then you can take the coin battery off of the QH and package it all up until you need it again for your main vehicle or another. If you haven't got to purchasing any software, the base TunerPro is free and the RT version is $39- donation (not mandatory) I experimented with for about a year before donating.
TunerPro.net click on it and check it out!

 

[Dontknowchit]

@Dontknowchit Say for instance, If you bought Just a Moates QuarterHorse and leave in place during your Real Time tuning and testing, then all you have to do is email your finalized bin file, saved from the QuarterHorse to me or anyone with a J3 chip programmer and the tune is put on the J3 chip. Then you can take the coin battery off of the QH and package it all up until you need it again for your main vehicle or another. If you haven't got to purchasing any software, the base TunerPro is free and the RT version is $39- donation (not mandatory) I experimented with for about a year before donating.
TunerPro.net click on it and check it out!

Ah ok, thanks for explaining that. So I'll need a QH to do the tuneing, then a J3 to store the tune. But also need a J3 programmer (or a borrowed one) to write to file then swap the QH for the J3. It's a shame the QH does not have the save/store capabilities on it already.

I think I understand now

 

[GOvert]

The QuarterHorse does have its own chip built on that the pcm is accessing instead of the pcms's built in chip, so yes it does save or holds the current "tune" or bin file. Some people have just left the QH in place and use the vehicle with it installed on the J3 port but it is not practical for long term use being that it has a 3 volt "coin" shaped battery that will run down after a period of time. I don't know if the battery would last 3 months or a year but if it runs down, you would have to pull your pcm out of its pocket, open it up, remove the QuarterHorse, replace the battery, reload the bin file, reattach to the pcm, reinstall in the vehicle, hook the car battery back up. (Always have the car battery disconnected when installing or uninstalling pcms).
So imagine a little 3 volt battery failure on your inner city Interstate like Nashville, Atlanta, Los Angeles. Your little battery fails and you in the 3rd from the left of six lanes with a dead automobile. Not good. In a lighter situation whereas you are pulled over on the side of the road and have the tools to go through the J3 QH removal process, then the pcm would revert back to the stock tune, so you could get your vehicle back home.
It would cost ~ $100 for someone to sell you a J3 chip and program it with your ready bin file.
In a couple of weeks, I'll post in this thread about programming a J3 chip. My new gear isn't here yet and as of yesterday, my wife is in the hospital stuck in an ER room overnight waiting on a bed in the main hospital. I can tell that I didn't get enough sleep overnight myself. I hope that she did.

 

[Dontknowchit]

The QuarterHorse does have its own chip built on that the pcm is accessing instead of the pcms's built in chip, so yes it does save or holds the current "tune" or bin file. Some people have just left the QH in place and use the vehicle with it installed on the J3 port but it is not practical for long term use being that it has a 3 volt "coin" shaped battery that will run down after a period of time. I don't know if the battery would last 3 months or a year but if it runs down, you would have to pull your pcm out of its pocket, open it up, remove the QuarterHorse, replace the battery, reload the bin file, reattach to the pcm, reinstall in the vehicle, hook the car battery back up. (Always have the car battery disconnected when installing or uninstalling pcms).
So imagine a little 3 volt battery failure on your inner city Interstate like Nashville, Atlanta, Los Angeles. Your little battery fails and you in the 3rd from the left of six lanes with a dead automobile. Not good. In a lighter situation whereas you are pulled over on the side of the road and have the tools to go through the J3 QH removal process, then the pcm would revert back to the stock tune, so you could get your vehicle back home.
It would cost ~ $100 for someone to sell you a J3 chip and program it with your ready bin file.
In a couple of weeks, I'll post in this thread about programming a J3 chip. My new gear isn't here yet and as of yesterday, my wife is in the hospital stuck in an ER room overnight waiting on a bed in the main hospital. I can tell that I didn't get enough sleep overnight myself. I hope that she did.

sorry to hear about your wife, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[GOvert]

@Dontknowchit As I'm waking up here, I see that I haven't explained The Moates QuarterHorse device other capabilities. I don't know if I'm describing it properly. It is an emulation device that can datalog. I did a google search and just started scanning results. Google search for QuarterHorse explained
I have had it semi-permanently installed while I've been chasing down sensor's issues. I'm not anywhere being able to tune "on the fly" or better referred to as RT or "Real Time" tuning. At first search of videos of how to do such, I was coming up with non-English speaking videos. That doesn't help me.
I was using it to collect some Real Time data, and I see that I'm having issues with the narrowband o2 sensors. At the top left of the screen, you can see an indication that I'm still running in OL mode or "open loop". There is temp, rpms, o2 sensors, etc. I also have the added on wideband sensor using the old deleted EGR circuit. Michael P (decipha) goes into a lot of detail about configuration, tuning and more on his tuning site. efidynotuning.com
Below is a snippet of some RT datalogging that I was describing.
ADDED: Forgive me if I have said some things twice. I'm going day to day here.

This is where the Moates QuarterHorse and the J3 chip holding a tune differ.

 

[Dontknowchit]

@Dontknowchit As I'm waking up here, I see that I haven't explained The Moates QuarterHorse device other capabilities. I don't know if I'm describing it properly. It is an emulation device that can datalog. I did a google search and just started scanning results. Google search for QuarterHorse explained
I have had it semi-permanently installed while I've been chasing down sensor's issues. I'm not anywhere being able to tune "on the fly" or better referred to as RT or "Real Time" tuning. At first search of videos of how to do such, I was coming up with non-English speaking videos. That doesn't help me.
I was using it to collect some Real Time data, and I see that I'm having issues with the narrowband o2 sensors. At the top left of the screen, you can see an indication that I'm still running in OL mode or "open loop". There is temp, rpms, o2 sensors, etc. I also have the added on wideband sensor using the old deleted EGR circuit. Michael P (decipha) goes into a lot of detail about configuration, tuning and more on his tuning site. efidynotuning.com
Below is a snippet of some RT datalogging that I was describing.
ADDED: Forgive me if I have said some things twice. I'm going day to day here.

This is where the Moates QuarterHorse and the J3 chip holding a tune differ.

Thanks, I have been reading up since starting this thread and realized that it can really do more than I thought previously. To make a apples to apples decision I went to moates to look at the hardware and it looks like the J3 chip is sold out, but it's $95 so I think I have a rough price of ~400 all in, before tuneing. I like the idea of being able to do it myself as it adds to the hobby and I'm cheap. Also I can't imagine I would be done with upgrades forever. I think there are trade offs on tuner availability as all the local performance shops only tune Holley. Still just in the planning stages. I think e85 may be something I would consider in the future, I believe I'd have to go MS3 or Holley for that so I'd really have to be committed to that idea. Not sure it's a deal breaker or not.

 

[GOvert]

E-85 type of fuel can be tuned in too. Moates should have some J3 chips back in stock soon. It's possible in their temporary absence, interested people are purchasing from them to make up for them being gone. ~2 years ago when they had closed, now we know paused, just to get the QuarterHorse, I purchased from Core Tuning the BE and Moates QuarterHorse package. I have never used the BE dongle and software and honestly I wouldn't know where to start. It is put away in a ~$60- case that I bought to put a small new laptop, ~140-, just for my tuning quest. It is handy to be able to grab and go with it. I am in the efidynotuning "camp" of it all. Both methods are near equal (but NOT interchangeable) except for extra BE $$ for licenses, specific tunes and such. Available on efidynotuning site, there are ready, meaning files that have extra code in written in them to use QH and TunerPro RT, right as one is getting started. Here is a link to different files available.
Forum with files
My if "all else fails" situation, is paying decipha to RT tune via the internet with his equipment and abilities connected to my set up, Engine running etc.
That capability exists too !