This car was created in hell, help me thanks.

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
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Pull the #1 spark plug, hell pull them all, you need to change them anyway and it makes it easier to turn the engine by hand. Find 0* on the balancer and mark it, while you are there mark 10* , 12* and 14* btdc too, hold your thumb over the #1 plug hole and crank the engine till you feel air push out, this is the piston coming up on tdc, stick a thin screw driver in the plug hole, crank the engine by hand feeling for the piston to move the screw driver, you can use the piston moving the screw driver to feel the piston move up than down, as it stops moving up that is tdc, your balancer should be at 0* and the rotor should point to the #1 spark plug wire tower on the distributor, oh, forgot to mention you need to mark the outside of the distributor where the #1 plug wire is.
While you are fooling around finding tdc/ rotor pointing to #1 plug wire, move the balancer back and forth noting how far you have to turn the balancer to make the rotor move, this can tell you how worn the timing chain is, although timing chain wear is less of an issue now than in the past.
Thank you.
 
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Blown88GT

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Haha I meant like what are the steps to get to TDC, but besides it seems you may be slightly annoyed with my responses.

I will 100% take all of your responses into consideration and I’m actually very thankful you’ve all had some weird experiences and have some good pointers for me, it’s all about piece by piece at this point! Starting from the basics, thank you everyone and I will continually update as I find out more!
No, not all annoyed with you. I'm more annoyed with the changes on the site. Keep getting notifications & clicking on them does nothing. I can no longer find conversations (also known as PM's).
 

67coupe

Founding Member
Apr 5, 2002
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Huntsville, AL
Interestingly one time a buddy and I switched the wires on the cap to match a Cleveland setup and the normal 5.0 firing order, the vehicle ran SMOOTH but had absolutely NO pick up, it revved up slower than a turtle.
You should be using the HO firing order. What firing order does it run better on?
 

Blown88GT

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1999
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Palm Beach Gardens, FL

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revhead347

Just rub Vaseline all over
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PIP in the distirbutor is a known issue. Definitely going to want the codes. I haven't had much luck with MSD stuff. Makes Sparks Dissapear. A basic tune up would be a good starting point. How does that wiring look on that MSD box? Does it look like they knew what they were doing, or is it a sea of butt connectors? If you have a weak connection on an MSD box, it's going to cause problems.

Kurt
 
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Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
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You should be using the HO firing order. What firing order does it run
PIP in the distirbutor is a known issue. Definitely going to want the codes. I haven't had much luck with MSD stuff. Makes Sparks Dissapear. A basic tune up would be a good starting poing. How does that wiring look on that MSD box? Does it look like they knew what they were doing, or is it a sea of butt connectors? If you have a weak connection on an MSD box, it's going to cause problems.

Kurt
Sea of butt connectors!
 

Olivethefet

Slap me as well as point and laugh
May 17, 2018
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Like I said earlier you need to get that out of the picture. Its not hard to undo that wiring and put it back right. From what I understand you really don't need one of those unless your really pushing the limits. My car runs great without it.
 

67coupe

Founding Member
Apr 5, 2002
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Huntsville, AL
An earlier post stated you changed it to the Cleveland firing order (which is the same as the 5.0 HO firing order, which you car should use) and it ran smoother. What firing order is it currently using that’s causing the issues?
 

revhead347

Just rub Vaseline all over
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Sea of butt connectors!

Sorry man, :poo: wiring work is the epilogue for misfires. If it were my car, I would get it back to it's natural habitat as quickly as I could. With the mods you listed, there is absolutely no advantage to having an MSD box on it. Drag it back to stock, and work from there. Put the standard replacement copper Autolite or NGK spark plugs in it. Cut the MSD box out. I would solder all those wires back to where they go. Ditch the MSD coil for a factory one. Put a quality cap and rotor on it. I prefer the Accel brand stuff, but that's just a suggestion, there are plenty other quality brands out there. Set the base timing back to the factory 10 degrees. You have to put things in perspective though, this is a 25 year old car, and many of the factory ignition parts have reached the end of their service life. Don't get upset if you have to spend a few dollars replacing the distributor and ignition control module. It's money well spent.

Kurt
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
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Hi,
Pic’s & additional info is better than anticipated. Once Wiring‘s soldered, insulated w/heat shrink, ignition components substituted & wires loomed up neatly, it seems you’ll get the better of this soon. Great info from everybody.
Some of these are for now, others- later...
1) I’d suggest swapping out the oil & filter after running rich to described extremes, to preserve your internals against fuel laden oil.
2) Heavy backfires described may have damaged your 02’s,Mufflers..consider when the time comes. (No Car’s noted).
3) May be DTC(‘s) correlating this, still very useful to have the codes for extra diagnostic reference, deletion. There’s a writeup by JRichter on pulling & dumping OBD-1 Codes as well as self diagnostic checks if you’d like to review it, great info..(?)
4) CAI sleeve with a deep cut closest to TB & filler neck, running a longer sleeve there will gain you some clearance. I’d replace both, inexpensive. Again, consider when the time comes.(Pic’s).
5) Consider buying a Chiltons/Haynes Shop Manual for your GT. 20$-25$.
You're 18? (Simply implies your’e on the ball more than many, not insulting anyone, lol).
Good luck!
-John
 

Dan02gt

10 Year Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Greenville, NC
From the pictures the engine looks bone stock. That chip and MSD stuff is doing nothing for you but causing issues. I would take it back to stock like others suggested. I would also source a stock air box and get rid of that CAI. Also lose that breather on the oil fill, it’s causing a vacuum leak through the PCV.
I know you said it runs better with the chip, but it has no mods needing a chip so it’s covering up for something else.
 

Foxslider

im not that much of a idiot
Oct 25, 2019
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I'd reset the timing for sure. General kartheif described that process perfectly.

I personally wouldnt use a screw driver, but if you move slow, its fine. The finger in hole feel air come past is good. Then look at balancer and bring it to 0. I went to 10. B/c i interpet that as advancing vase timing. It works good, but ima buy a light and check it, play with it and see if i cant get it a better idle/power.
 

7991LXnSHO

Now I want a 10 year badge
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Nippondenso/Denso plugs are a premium brand, not junk. That model may be somewhat gimmicky, but the brand makes OEM quality or better Japanese auto electronics. If they are not fouled, replacing them with something like Champions would be a real step down in quality.
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
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Hello All! First thank you for all your insights and all your info, I’ve actually screenshotted a lot of it and written it down.


long story short, I took the vehicle to the shop that supposedly “timed” it. They went to go re-time it......pulled the spout and it died so I’m thinking the timing was wickedly advanced, or nd that the msd box is like a parasitic draw from the already modified (chip) ecm.

Moving forward, I have grabbed a few parts to try to narrow out things, New MAF, new 02, New dizzy. Will wait to see what they say with new components.

thinking they didn’t set the timing right at all, and the msd box is like a tic on an already dead deer.

+ 02 sensor was stuck lean, maf sensor voltage was wonky.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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Yeah, keep taking it to a 'shop' that may or may not know how to work on these cars. The members here only work on their own fox cars and have resolved similar issues but don't do what they tell you to do, just throw parts/money at it.
Let us know what happens.
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
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Yeah, keep taking it to a 'shop' that may or may not know how to work on these cars. The members here only work on their own fox cars and have resolved similar issues but don't do what they tell you to do, just throw parts/money at it.
Let us know what happens.
The shop is called Jake’s Automotive in Sterling Heights Michigan.

This is a 94’ not a fox, the eecs are difficult....I can’t tell if that was a slight diss at me but I don’t exactly have all the time in the world to get it done. Or the equipment. Not old enough to accumulate a ton of tools over time lol...however I paid this shop money before hand I would expect them to at least give it to me at same or better when I originally dropped it off. Without more $ involved

I threw a few parts at it, stuff that could’ve been causing said issues. Wasn’t really getting any codes from the computer other than EGR ones. Wasn’t a huge waste of money, I knew those things already needed to be replaced....

No reason to shame me.

I will eventually get it home and fiddle with it if not solved by them.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound well, mean but most shops work on newer stuff and can't remember how these eec1 cars work, the 94-5 computer ain't much different than the fox, they have a ccrm that is in play where a fox does not.
The shop I hang at has used the stangnet tech resources several times and I have looked like a hero more than once when a fox car comes in with problems, first thing, like has been said already, is to take that msd box and throw it as far away as you can, they tend not to play well with our ignition systems. Get it back as close to stock components as you can.
 

revhead347

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The shop is called Jake’s Automotive in Sterling Heights Michigan.

This is a 94’ not a fox, the eecs are difficult....I can’t tell if that was a slight diss at me but I don’t exactly have all the time in the world to get it done. Or the equipment. Not old enough to accumulate a ton of tools over time lol...however I paid this shop money before hand I would expect them to at least give it to me at same or better when I originally dropped it off. Without more $ involved
I would have probably skipped the MAF as it's not really a wear item, but the rest of the stuff it probably needed anyway. If not now, then in short order. The car should run reasonably well with the MAF un plugged. Kartheif does have a point though, most places don't work on cars this old anymore. Asking the average mechanic how to set timing on a distributor today is akin to asking them how to tune a carbuerator.

Kurt
 
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dcm0123

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Had a similar problem running extremely rich "all of a sudden". Turned out the wire shorted at the junction to the O2 sensor. I would check all the wiring related to the O2 and any other sensors.

If there are a lot of splices in the harness, you can find a decent OEM engine harness for cheap money in a junk yard. You can buy misc connectors for it such as the connector going to the distrubutor or coolant temperature sensor (one for engine computer control, not the gauge) if needed (I replaced both). Solder connections and use shrink tubing.

Keep in mind there are only certain things the computer can tell you. It cannot tell you problems such as a spun harmonic balancer, a jumped timing chain, bad fuel pressure regulator or low fuel pressure caused by a bad pump. Helped a friend diagnose a cheap fuel pump he put in which lasted 2 months. Car ran but had no power because it could not build sufficient pressure. You need to run tests yourself to diagnose these types of issues. Hopefully the garage you are working with knows how to do this.