This car was created in hell, help me thanks.

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
D7EFAC1A-AC06-42FE-B6DB-2682043BBA58.jpeg


Pic for Attention!

Hello All, thank you ahead of time. I have an interesting one here and it is surely beating me senseless.

1994 5.0 HO


Starting story, I bought the vehicle and it ran fine but turned over slowly (like 1 too many cranks as maybe not enough spark)

But it had the issue or what I think was an issue how the vehicle idled at 1200....and it made a small “pop”////miss around 1700-2400 RPMs.

Mind you, the vehicle has an entire MSD ignition set up, coil, distributor, 6A ignit box, an EGR delete, no cats, bbk headers, and a SCT-4 bank eliminator chip (where it surely runs better with the chip in).....I of course bought someone else’s issue.

I began messing with first changing the spark plug wires and spark plugs, dual tip denso. Vehicle ran okay but still was popping/missing on the rev decline....Car still bogged at certain moments.

When unplugging the MAF the vehicle ran a ton better no pops or bangs and it was ripping around.....then all of the sudden it doesn’t want to run anything other than fouling out rich. Awful fuel smell. It almost seemed too coincidental to the fact the vehicle started acting up as soon as I messed with the timing slightly and new spark plugs and wires.

Interestingly, it also likes the old cap and rotor better, it does not like the new msd cap and rotor and the other one is all foul and Corroded But it likes it better 100%.

In the vehicles current state it’s symptoms are tough time starting, idling, very rich smell, LOUD backfires like gunshot ones...and it will NOT Rev over 2k.

It has 125psi All the way around Dry...If you have any questions or need more input but thank you everyone . Hopefully I Gave enough input.

More diag things to factor in.
fuel pressure from 35-45 psi. Has underdrive pulleys.
 
  • Sponsors(?)


08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
892
139
53
50
Massachusetts
Hi,
Sorry to hear, nice GT. The 94’-95’s EEC’s are generally not as “agreeable” to mod’s as the 93’ & earlier Foxes, nor the later OBD2 96+ Ponies. Pull your EEC Codes and post them, then dump them.
Your “125lbs all the way around dry” mean results of a compression test? Please elaborate.
TPS sensor voltage at idle <1VDC?
Car idled at 1,200 when you bought it?
Running super rich will gas wash cylinders and clog up Cat’s, even a few medium backfires can destroy the Cats, 02’s and Mufflers, highly restricting exhaust flow, may crack Pistons, burn valve margins, the list goes on.
MSD ignition components raise an eyebrow, one at a time...
That being said, if you’re running better with the MAF unplugged, may likely be an issue with the MAF itself. What MAF is it running?
Can blast it with CRC MAF cleaner & see what occurs.
Car should run awful with the MAF plug removed.
Fuel pressure should maintain solid at 38lbs, 40lbs with the Regulator line pulled, running an adjustable or stock FPR?
Did the car ever run 100% normal since purchasing?
Have the stock ignition components?
A few engine pics may help.
Post the DTCodes, dump.
What’s your base timing at?
Is the SPOUT jumper in solid?
Running what Mfg H or X pipe, Catted?
Engine coolant temps normal?
Run it now & it will destroy itself, I’d
suggest limiting running it specific to
testing for now.
Need to start from the simple tests to locate issues once information is gained.
Best!
John
 

Essn95

Advanced Member
Jun 21, 2017
448
274
73
21
He gave you great information, go through that list and you will surely find your issue. Just dropping in to say beautiful car! Yellow sn95s really look sharp.
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
Hi,
Sorry to hear, nice GT. The 94’-95’s EEC’s are generally not as “agreeable” to mod’s as the 93’ & earlier Foxes, nor the later OBD2 96+ Ponies. Pull your EEC Codes and post them, then dump them.
Your “125lbs all the way around dry” mean results of a compression test? Please elaborate.
TPS sensor voltage at idle <1VDC?
Car idled at 1,200 when you bought it?
Running super rich will gas wash cylinders and clog up Cat’s, even a few medium backfires can destroy the Cats, 02’s and Mufflers, highly restricting exhaust flow, may crack Pistons, burn valve margins, the list goes on.
MSD ignition components raise an eyebrow, one at a time...
That being said, if you’re running better with the MAF unplugged, may likely be an issue with the MAF itself. What MAF is it running?
Can blast it with CRC MAF cleaner & see what occurs.
Car should run awful with the MAF plug removed.
Fuel pressure should maintain solid at 38lbs, 40lbs with the Regulator line pulled, running an adjustable or stock FPR?
Did the car ever run 100% normal since purchasing?
Have the stock ignition components?
A few engine pics may help.
Post the DTCodes, dump.
What’s your base timing at?
Is the SPOUT jumper in solid?
Running what Mfg H or X pipe, Catted?
Engine coolant temps normal?
Run it now & it will destroy itself, I’d
suggest limiting running it specific to
testing for now.
Need to start from the simple tests to locate issues once information is gained.
Best!
John
Well John, do you have an email I could reach you at? Or maybe Facebook? Someway I could better answer all these questions with strong explanations.
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
892
139
53
50
Massachusetts
Well John, do you have an email I could reach you at? Or maybe Facebook? Someway I could better answer all these questions with strong explanations.
Hi,
We could do that, but in all honesty I strongly believe that it’s in everybody’s best interest to keep it in the loop here on Stangnet where resources are strong & any site members (much more clever than I) and collective experience(s) of other’s piping in if they choose will prove the most potent method of assisting.
Also useful for other members newer to this who are looking to gain from the experience, and helpful to the next guy/gal in your position & that’s what it’s all about.
We just start from the beginning, same as any other issue-K?
Happy to help!
-John
 

Olivethefet

Slap me as well as point and laugh
May 17, 2018
1,910
1,345
123
40
Enterprise AL
I agree with 08GT500 about keeping the conversation here. You'll get a broader range of help and anyone looking to help out will be able to read up on what has and hasn't been done to help you.

I have a 92 GT that came with a MSD 6AL ignition box on it and an MSD distributor installed. When I bought the car it didn't run. Then it ran bad. My problem turned out to be the MSD equipment. I undid the 6AL and put the car back to factory style setup. Next on the list was the distributor. The MSD distributors are known to have issues with the PIP sensors going bad. This was the case for me. I had to pull the distributor, disassemble the thing, and install a new Ford PIP. After that it ran great.

08GT laid out some great suggestions to start with. My only advise at this point would be to remove the 6AL if one is installed on the car. I'm not sure how comfortable you are with removing the distributor and replacing the PIP. I did mine in the garage without a press. There is also the cranks but does not start check list. I know your car is starting, but it has a lot of great information on trouble shooting the issues you are describing.


Keep at it, be patient, and dont be afraid to post up lengthy post about what you have done, are thinking about doing, or just your ideas in general. You never know what seemingly unimportant piece of information might be the key to figuring something out.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
17,818
5,781
193
polk county florida
My advice would be to take everything out that is non stock, msd stuff, those plugs are a waste of money, just good ol' copper plugs, reset the computer, compression kinda low, check timing, check valve adjustment. You're gonna have to get back to basics to get a handle on this.
 

Blown88GT

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1999
2,144
505
164
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
I also suspect the fuel injectors were "upgraded". Need to know what they are & the MAF they are paired with.

Your car looks like a Cobra which may have used different ECU, injectors, etc.
'94 & '95's have the same basic 5.0 engine as the Fox bodies but there are many other differences. I know that my Ford Motorsport headers were from a '94 or '95. They fit the heads but had to plug the EGR port on the passenger side header.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Yellow5.094

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
My advice would be to take everything out that is non stock, msd stuff, those plugs are a waste of money, just good ol' copper plugs, reset the computer, compression kinda low, check timing, check valve adjustment. You're gonna have to get back to basics to get a handle on this.
That’s what I’ve figured considering so much has been fiddled with, getting rid of the stuff and trying to go stock.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 08GT500

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
I agree with 08GT500 about keeping the conversation here. You'll get a broader range of help and anyone looking to help out will be able to read up on what has and hasn't been done to help you.

I have a 92 GT that came with a MSD 6AL ignition box on it and an MSD distributor installed. When I bought the car it didn't run. Then it ran bad. My problem turned out to be the MSD equipment. I undid the 6AL and put the car back to factory style setup. Next on the list was the distributor. The MSD distributors are known to have issues with the PIP sensors going bad. This was the case for me. I had to pull the distributor, disassemble the thing, and install a new Ford PIP. After that it ran great.

08GT laid out some great suggestions to start with. My only advise at this point would be to remove the 6AL if one is installed on the car. I'm not sure how comfortable you are with removing the distributor and replacing the PIP. I did mine in the garage without a press. There is also the cranks but does not start check list. I know your car is starting, but it has a lot of great information on trouble shooting the issues you are describing.


Keep at it, be patient, and dont be afraid to post up lengthy post about what you have done, are thinking about doing, or just your ideas in general. You never know what seemingly unimportant piece of information might be the key to figuring something out.
Yes after reading a ton the past few weeks, the PIP seems to be a huge red flag in my said situation.....

Realistically I only even suggested the outside communication simply because typing can be and usually is tiring/repetitive believe it or not. Patience really is what it takes and at 18 years old I don’t have a lot of it LOL.

Although for the greater good of things and the design of the website it won’t be a challenge for me to stay on here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 08GT500

Blown88GT

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1999
2,144
505
164
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
That's a beautiful looking car. I really like the SN95 Cobras.
BTW, the ECU is not OBDII, which did not come to life until 1996 when the US gov't mandated that all vehicles sold must have a common diagnostic interface.

I would start by checking the base timing with a timing light.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yellow5.094

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
Hi,
We could do that, but in all honesty I strongly believe that it’s in everybody’s best interest to keep it in the loop here on Stangnet where resources are strong & any site members (much more clever than I) and collective experience(s) of other’s piping in if they choose will prove the most potent method of assisting.
Also useful for other members newer to this who are looking to gain from the experience, and helpful to the next guy/gal in your position & that’s what it’s all about.
We just start from the beginning, same as any other issue-K?
Happy to help!
-John
No I surely understand,

continuing on.

Everything I have definite and know is that the Vehicle has an EGR delete, under drive pulleys, 3.73 gears, ford racing radiator, a 180° thermostat.....I think....I did buy someone else’s project of course.

The SCT 4 Bank eliminator chip 100% does help the performance of the vehicle. Interestingly one time a buddy and I switched the wires on the cap to match a Cleveland setup and the normal 5.0 firing order, the vehicle ran SMOOTH but had absolutely NO pick up, it revved up slower than a turtle. It seemed as if I was in 5th gear going 20mph and then stomping on it, took a while to gain power.

The denso dual tips are probably garbage, did I mention interestingly the vehicle likes the older and beat up cap and rotor. Or so it seems.

The vehicle has 125 psi on all cylinders when the motor is dry/cold.....so sitting for multiple hours. Dry as in I didn’t put oil in to see if the rings are bad.

I would say over my entire duration of owning the vehicle is has never run 100%....maybe 96% but those small hiccups where I could hear it skip over a beat/miss at around 1600-2400 area were weird and the 1200 RPM idle (possibly caused from the tune).
 

Attachments

  • F1D482D9-E069-412D-9BD5-0B27C21C0F41.jpeg
    F1D482D9-E069-412D-9BD5-0B27C21C0F41.jpeg
    431.8 KB · Views: 37
  • 73359023-8014-4114-8DA4-2F4B64B5A649.jpeg
    73359023-8014-4114-8DA4-2F4B64B5A649.jpeg
    415.9 KB · Views: 34
  • B4B9B9E7-6C0A-4AE4-878F-609B91F8D462.jpeg
    B4B9B9E7-6C0A-4AE4-878F-609B91F8D462.jpeg
    490.3 KB · Views: 32
  • 56486573-B1A5-4168-8E75-1ACB1585F1AF.jpeg
    56486573-B1A5-4168-8E75-1ACB1585F1AF.jpeg
    333.2 KB · Views: 36
  • 09AAEC02-07BF-46E6-8ADF-DBA78991A10A.jpeg
    09AAEC02-07BF-46E6-8ADF-DBA78991A10A.jpeg
    427.2 KB · Views: 36
  • 79388421-C2BD-4689-94B0-B93741586B70.jpeg
    79388421-C2BD-4689-94B0-B93741586B70.jpeg
    374.1 KB · Views: 35
  • 9FBB9DE3-8B5F-4446-8EB2-AB47070EF55D.jpeg
    9FBB9DE3-8B5F-4446-8EB2-AB47070EF55D.jpeg
    299.2 KB · Views: 38

Blown88GT

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1999
2,144
505
164
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
No I surely understand,

continuing on.

Everything I have definite and know is that the Vehicle has an EGR delete, under drive pulleys, 3.73 gears, ford racing radiator, a 180° thermostat.....I think....I did buy someone else’s project of course.

The SCT 4 Bank eliminator chip 100% does help the performance of the vehicle. Interestingly one time a buddy and I switched the wires on the cap to match a Cleveland setup and the normal 5.0 firing order, the vehicle ran SMOOTH but had absolutely NO pick up, it revved up slower than a turtle. It seemed as if I was in 5th gear going 20mph and then stomping on it, took a while to gain power.

The denso dual tips are probably garbage, did I mention interestingly the vehicle likes the older and beat up cap and rotor. Or so it seems.

The vehicle has 125 psi on all cylinders when the motor is dry/cold.....so sitting for multiple hours. Dry as in I didn’t put oil in to see if the rings are bad.

I would say over my entire duration of owning the vehicle is has never run 100%....maybe 96% but those small hiccups where I could hear it skip over a beat/miss at around 1600-2400 area were weird and the 1200 RPM idle (possibly caused from the tune).
I'm not convinced you're 18 YO, but doesn't matter.
EGR delete - not the cause of any of your issues.
under drive pulleys- not the cause of any of your issues, but most consider these a downgrade because they can create charging & cooling issues for a 2 HP gain.
3.73 gears- not the cause of any of your issues.
ford racing radiator - not the cause of any of your issues.
180° thermostat- not the cause of any of your issues.
denso dual tips are probably garbage - could be the cause of your issues. Autolite 25's should fit the stock heads.

Take a picture of the distributor when the engine is at TDC according to the balancer & pointer.
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
I'm not convinced you're 18 YO, but doesn't matter.
EGR delete - not the cause of any of your issues.
under drive pulleys- not the cause of any of your issues, but most consider these a downgrade because they can create charging & cooling issues for a 2 HP gain.
3.73 gears- not the cause of any of your issues.
ford racing radiator - not the cause of any of your issues.
180° thermostat- not the cause of any of your issues.
denso dual tips are probably garbage - could be the cause of your issues. Autolite 25's should fit the stock heads.

Take a picture of the distributor when the engine is at TDC according to the balancer & pointer.
Flattering? I am? So assuming I sound older....thank you? Haha

But besides that, I know none of those things should be causing it, just listing off what I know has been done to the vehicle as I go...maybe highlighting something else that could be also affected.

How do you suppose I find top dead center, or what should be?
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
I'm not convinced you're 18 YO, but doesn't matter.
EGR delete - not the cause of any of your issues.
under drive pulleys- not the cause of any of your issues, but most consider these a downgrade because they can create charging & cooling issues for a 2 HP gain.
3.73 gears- not the cause of any of your issues.
ford racing radiator - not the cause of any of your issues.
180° thermostat- not the cause of any of your issues.
denso dual tips are probably garbage - could be the cause of your issues. Autolite 25's should fit the stock heads.

Take a picture of the distributor when the engine is at TDC according to the balancer & pointer.
 

Attachments

  • CA0BC630-E49E-43B1-AE53-B3BCA2D812D7.jpeg
    CA0BC630-E49E-43B1-AE53-B3BCA2D812D7.jpeg
    489.7 KB · Views: 33

Blown88GT

Founding Member
Nov 13, 1999
2,144
505
164
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Remove cap to see rotor position.
Rotate engine with wrench on alternator pulley bolt or crank pulley bolt.
Looks for marks on harmonic balancer & pointer on engine to find TDC.

You can Google how to do this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Yellow5.094

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
17,818
5,781
193
polk county florida
Pull the #1 spark plug, hell pull them all, you need to change them anyway and it makes it easier to turn the engine by hand. Find 0* on the balancer and mark it, while you are there mark 10* , 12* and 14* btdc too, hold your thumb over the #1 plug hole and crank the engine till you feel air push out, this is the piston coming up on tdc, stick a thin screw driver in the plug hole, crank the engine by hand feeling for the piston to move the screw driver, you can use the piston moving the screw driver to feel the piston move up than down, as it stops moving up that is tdc, your balancer should be at 0* and the rotor should point to the #1 spark plug wire tower on the distributor, oh, forgot to mention you need to mark the outside of the distributor where the #1 plug wire is.
While you are fooling around finding tdc/ rotor pointing to #1 plug wire, move the balancer back and forth noting how far you have to turn the balancer to make the rotor move, this can tell you how worn the timing chain is, although timing chain wear is less of an issue now than in the past.
 

Yellow5.094

Member
Oct 6, 2020
14
2
13
22
Michigan
Remove cap to see rotor position.
Haha I meant like what are the steps to get to TDC, but besides it seems you may be slightly annoyed with my responses.

I will 100% take all of your responses into consideration and I’m actually very thankful you’ve all had some weird experiences and have some good pointers for me, it’s all about piece by piece at this point! Starting from the basics, thank you everyone and I will continually update as I find out more!