new cam....new problem

iskwezm · Nov 13, 2005

eric n said:
Mine is Blue, Tahitian Pearl Blue to be exact (honda civic color from last year). I didn't take my car to the show, but it was out and about over the weekend. It could very well have been mine that you saw. While not perfect, it's a pretty tight looking ride.

Im assuming you live off of Mountain Vista????My bro lives off of Starlight Peak and drives a 55' VW pro street oval bug(yellow primer).He makes a point to show me your car every time i go up there,I drove by a couple of weeks ago and it looks the way mine used to.

oh, what lift is the new cam and whit kind of heads are they.I had a comp cam 270 years back it would like to kiss the valves too

eric n · Nov 13, 2005

iskwezm said:
Im assuming you live off of Mountain Vista????My bro lives off of Starlight Peak and drives a 55' VW pro street oval bug(yellow primer).He makes a point to show me your car every time i go up there,I drove by a couple of weeks ago and it looks the way mine used to.

oh, what lift is the new cam and whit kind of heads are they.I had a comp cam 270 years back it would like to kiss the valves too

Well I lived off ALTA VISTA. Don't think there is a mountian vista in B-field (it would be easy to be wrong). I just moved from there to the west side oftown.. So there is a good chance it's my car. Nice to Know it get's noticed. As per the lift, cam card is with the mechanic and I don't remember the specs off the top of my head. Likely cuz I don't understand cams to save my arse. I just called comp cams told them where I was and where I wanted to be and they recommended this based on my engine intake, heads, carb, gearing...... As a note it felt pretty nice until it tanked. I can't wait to take it out and get on it a notch. Hopefully mon or tues... We shall see.

jbuening · Nov 13, 2005

D.Hearne said:
With that much dammage, the pump cam should have been in contact when the timing cover was bolted on. Should have leaked oil like crazy too. If not, then I'd suspect the cam retainer wasn't installed. Last thing would be a too thick cam gear. A high volume oilpump wouldn't cause all this damage.

Well the pump cam was touching the timing cover but not enough for it to be noticeable. I think the timing cover flexed enough to seal but the shavings would have trashed the motor. After this was found, i compared the new cam gear to the stock one and the new gear was indeed thicker. And no a high vol oil pump won't cause this, but i was showing why the mechanic according to another post wouldn't use the compcams timing gear. All the engine shops talked me out of the high vol oil pump and they do wear out distributors and their gears.

iskwezm · Nov 13, 2005

eric n said:
Well I lived off ALTA VISTA. Don't think there is a mountian vista in B-field (it would be easy to be wrong). I just moved from there to the west side oftown.. So there is a good chance it's my car. Nice to Know it get's noticed. As per the lift, cam card is with the mechanic and I don't remember the specs off the top of my head. Likely cuz I don't understand cams to save my arse. I just called comp cams told them where I was and where I wanted to be and they recommended this based on my engine intake, heads, carb, gearing...... As a note it felt pretty nice until it tanked. I can't wait to take it out and get on it a notch. Hopefully mon or tues... We shall see.

I didnt know there was so many mustangs there,this blue fastback was by Earl Warren jr high,so guess i got you mistaken with another one

have any pics?

ashford · Nov 14, 2005

jbuening said:
Wanna know why they didn't want to use the Comp Cam timing set? See pics below

amnit: Yep, thats my timing chain and the true dual roller timing chain from CompCams. Their cam sprocket is thicker than stock ones and you see what happens there. I had to grind my fuel pump eccentric down to get it to work. Good thing i didn't start the engine like that.

Oh and was a High Volume oil pump installed? that will create alot of stress on the dizzy gear and will eat them up in a hurry. Just a thought

LOL i did that too. hey just use the other dowel pin and a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric. you didn't pull start it did you?

Jon22 · Nov 14, 2005

Jon22 · Nov 14, 2005

I don’t mean to overstep you guys but I have been in the engine business for a while and I do machine work for a race shop. A bad or no retainer plate on the cam caused that timing cover damage. Also to add, high volume oil pumps on the street are a bad choice. I have seen more pans sucked dry and cranks burnt-up with HV pumps than I can count. For a street motor, standard volume is the way to go.

Hope this helps, Jon22

jbuening · Nov 14, 2005

ashford said:
LOL i did that too. hey just use the other dowel pin and a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric. you didn't pull start it did you?

None of the dowels they supplied were long enough. Had to buy a longer one from ford. I was told by many that the 2 piece eccentric has the same depth as the one piece so i didn't bother. I had to pull the oil pan for something and noticed the shavings at the bottom and some hanging from the timing chain. This was before the motor was in the car. All that damage was from hand cranking the motor over to adjust the valves and such.

jbuening · Nov 14, 2005

Jon22 said:
I don’t mean to overstep you guys but I have been in the engine business for a while and I do machine work for a race shop. A bad or no retainer plate on the cam caused that timing cover damage.

I'm not questioning your expertise, but the overall thickness of the timing gear itself was quite a bit thicker than the stock one which IMO caused the interference. The retainer plate was new and is in place.

Oh and sorry everyone for hijacking this thread. It wasn't my intention

SoCalCruising · Nov 14, 2005

Well, if jbuening can tell us what the cam thrust was, we can decide if the retainer plate was to blame, or not. Too, some cam sprockets require a shim (thrust bearing)to limit cam thrust. If the shim is required, but not used, the cam can walk forward and do the deed on the front cover. IF this is the case, the thicker cam gear may have been okay had the shim been used. If the ship was not required, or was required AND used, than I can begin to think about the cam sproket being the issue.

jbuening · Nov 14, 2005

Cam thrust was within specs according to the Tom Monroe manual and the original 1970 Ford manual. Sorry it's been a year and can't remember the exact thrust. Not sure how shimming would work except make the matters worse. Wouldn't the shim place the cam gear closer to the timing cover? Anyways, i followed the following instructions and the cam sprocket had the washer built in so the washer was not used in this case (which would have caused major clearance problems )

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/179.pdf#search='cam%20thrust%20ford'

Those instructions don't mention any shims

Max Power · Nov 14, 2005

Here is a page dispelling some of the myths about pumping pans dry and dizzy gear wear. Simple fact is pumps have a bypass at a certain pressure, and 99% of engines don't have passages big enough to pump it dry with a fire hose.

http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/bulletin-3rd.htm

Max Power · Nov 14, 2005

jbuening said:
None of the dowels they supplied were long enough. Had to buy a longer one from ford. I was told by many that the 2 piece eccentric has the same depth as the one piece so i didn't bother. I had to pull the oil pan for something and noticed the shavings at the bottom and some hanging from the timing chain. This was before the motor was in the car. All that damage was from hand cranking the motor over to adjust the valves and such.

Correct. Cams usually wont walk that far, or dig that deep with just the retainer missing. That was clearly forced into it. Some Ford timing covers just arent deep enough for a double roller.

If you had started it, it probably would have made some interesting noises, and probably would have leaked.

SoCalCruising · Nov 14, 2005

My bad. The thrust bearing keeps the cam from moving toward the rear, not the front. Sorry. I feel like an a$$ ... wait aminute, I am an a$$!

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