Fox New Here: Saying Hello With Questions

polaraman · Feb 27, 2015

Hey all, I just bought a 1989 25th anniversary last week and I'm happy so far. I just have to get a few things done to it. I think i'm going to have to get the transmission rebuilt because it wants to jump out of 3rd gear if i'm not accelerating and it scrubs pretty bad going into 3rd gear.

I also have issues with a very low idle. Once it warms up, it runs ok but when its cold, it acts like a carburated engine with no choke. I've printed out the thread and will start working through it.

7991LXnSHO · Feb 27, 2015

jrichker's surging idle thread might take some hard thinking to get caught up to, but is the only real way to start. Let us know the results and what the car is telling you (codes and test results).

A manual jumping out of third? Sounds like it needs fixed before it blows chunks of gear teeth inside the case. By your description, I bet the syncro is worn and the gear is not fully engaging. I have not had to pull a T-5 apart yet, but my other trans experiences leads me to suspect a bent shift arm/fork/lever too. Frequent power shifters may have the part numbers memorized for you.

Noobz347 · Feb 27, 2015

polaraman said:
Hey all, I just bought a 1989 25th anniversary last week and I'm happy so far. I just have to get a few things done to it. I think i'm going to have to get the transmission rebuilt because it wants to jump out of 3rd gear if i'm not accelerating and it scrubs pretty bad going into 3rd gear.

I also have issues with a very low idle. Once it warms up, it runs ok but when its cold, it acts like a carburated engine with no choke. I've printed out the thread and will start working through it.

Your transmission problem is likely one of two things.... A worn shifter (I like the MGW and Steed Tri-Ax) or worn synchros.
The good news about the synchros is that the whole tranny doesn't need a rebuild. Bad news is that it's still going to have to come out and go back in.
The good news about replacing the shifter is that a new one will help to prevent either occurrence from happening again.

JR's checklist is a good one. Holler if you get stuck.

polaraman · Feb 27, 2015

Is there a recommendation shifter to use? I need something close to stock as I won't be doing many performance upgrades.

Can I damage my transmission by continuing to drive it? Driving it isn't too bad right now.... Although it seems to have trouble finding first gear. Once I go through the gears, it shifts ok with a little scrub going into 3rd and 4th gear. While downshifting, I often can't find 3rd gear. It scrubs so I end finding 2nd and go about my business. Does that sound like the synchros or the shifter... Or both?

Noobz347 · Feb 27, 2015

polaraman said:
Is there a recommendation shifter to use? I need something close to stock as I won't be doing many performance upgrades.

Can I damage my transmission by continuing to drive it? Driving it isn't too bad right now.... Although it seems to have trouble finding first gear. Once I go through the gears, it shifts ok with a little scrub going into 3rd and 4th gear. While downshifting, I often can't find 3rd gear. It scrubs so I end finding 2nd and go about my business. Does that sound like the synchros or the shifter... Or both?

You can drive it. Try to keep your hand on the shifter applying pressure to keep it in its intended gear.

I used to have one that would make a loud POP when I would backup. Scared the chit out me every time it happened. I learned to keep my hand on it.

I already made shifter recommends: Steeda Tri-Ax and MGW.

Both are super smooth and fix ALL of the crap that is the OEM shifter. The MGW has more adjustability and durability. For what you're describing I think the Steeda would be just as good and it costs less. If you're going to be ripping on it at the track, get the MGW.

Other shifters that I have tried have been very notchy so these are the two that I have liked in a T5.

mikestang63 · Feb 27, 2015

The trouble going into 1st and 3rd could be synchros and/or the shiftter as those are the gears that get banged the most when guys are tying to speed shift.
Yes you can damage the shift forks and syncrhos by continuing to shift it wiht a bad shifter- drive the car easy for now. There are a number of good aftermarket shifters. I like the Pro 5.0 or MGW. You can adjust them to your liking and will provide you with much smoother shifts.

You may have a clutch issue if you are having trouble finding the gears.. If it is stock take your foot and put it under the clutch pedal and lift up easy on it,. The stock clutch quadrant has a plastic adjustment wheel that will adjust up the cable this way. The cable could be stretched or the quadrant worn or broke. A worn or misadjusted clutch will give you hard shifting as described.

Noobz347 · Feb 27, 2015

mikestang63 said:
The trouble going into 1st and 3rd could be synchros and/or the shiftter as those are the gears that get banged the most when guys are tying to speed shift.
Yes you can damage the shift forks and syncrhos by continuing to shift it wiht a bad shifter- drive the car easy for now. There are a number of good aftermarket shifters. I like the Pro 5.0 or MGW. You can adjust them to your liking and will provide you with much smoother shifts.

You may have a clutch issue if you are having trouble finding the gears.. If it is stock take your foot and put it under the clutch pedal and lift up easy on it,. The stock clutch quadrant has a plastic adjustment wheel that will adjust up the cable this way. The cable could be stretched or the quadrant worn or broke. A worn or misadjusted clutch will give you hard shifting as described.

This reminds me of something else too.... The OEM quadrant. Try to get a look at it (you're going to have to get your head up under the driver side dash and cuss alot). See if there's any broken teeth one the clutch quadrant or prawl.

polaraman · Feb 27, 2015

Great! I'll check that out in the morning and report back on what I find.

Thanks everyone for your tips and suggestions.

7991LXnSHO · Feb 27, 2015

As far as driving it, I normally do not disagree with Noobz. But in this case, I need to further explain what is going on. When the gear is not fully engaged, the engine's torque is being applied to the edges of the teeth, not to the middle where they can handle the most power. Each time it pops (and makes a bang sound), it is another chance to break teeth edges from the gears and syncro. So holding it in gear can help avoid damage. But in my experience, the sooner you fix it, the less damage there will be and fewer parts you need to buy. And it seems to likely that any serious failure will be in the middle of a bad place rather than in your driveway. I drove a long ways in second (it was the only gear left) when my gear popping Mustang gave up. By then, it was far more than just the bent shift forks.

Any good aftermarket shifter should have adjustable bump stops to keep the driver from bending parts by over shifting into gear. The Hulk can still mess it all up, but the stops help.

Noobz347 · Feb 27, 2015

If you force it, you can break it. You can also take that extra half-throttle step to ensure it falls all the way in.

This assumes the problem is with synchros though and not some of the other possibilities listed up there.

polaraman · Mar 8, 2015

Hey all, I just wanted to give everyone an update. I finally had time to put the car on jack stands to take a further look at the transmission. I screwed out the bottom plug in the transmission and got some fluid to run out. However, when i removed the top plug nothing came out. So i went to the parts store to get some fluid and a pump. I ended up putting in the whole 2 quarts in the top plug and it still wasn't full. I ran back to the store to get another but i ran out of time. I drove it back to the store and it nearly shifted like a dream. The more I drove it, the better the shifting got.

That was one source of my poorly shifting transmission. It was damn near out of fluid! How many quarts will it take to fill it up to where it needs to be? Should I add any kind of lubricating additive since I ran it so low?

I think that I can put the transmission rebuild on the shelf right now and worry about some other projects first. There was still a little grind going into 3rd and 4th but nothing like it was before.

TOOLOW91 · Mar 8, 2015

T5 takes 2.2 qts - top plug out put your finger in and if it touches fluid your golden .

02 281 GT · Mar 8, 2015

According to my trusty Hayne's manuals, the correct type of transmission fluid Mercon ATF. It specifies 2.8 quarts for 1994-1995 T-5; for fox T5 it just says to fill it until fluid reaches the bottom of the fill plug. I've always just filled it through the shifter with the fill plug removed and a drain pan underneath it.

TOOLOW91 · Mar 8, 2015

There Ya go ! ^^^

Boosted92LX · Mar 8, 2015

02 281 GT said:
According to my trusty Hayne's manuals, the correct type of transmission fluid Mercon ATF. It specifies 2.8 quarts for 1994-1995 T-5; for fox T5 it just says to fill it until fluid reaches the bottom of the fill plug. I've always just filled it through the shifter with the fill plug removed and a drain pan underneath it.

This^^^. The T5 that came in my car had a ton of problems. Opened it up to find it filled with GEAR OIL.. NOT what you put in T5... important to use the proper fluid or you can really hurt your transmission.

02 281 GT · Mar 8, 2015

Boosted92LX said:
This^^^. The T5 that came in my car had a ton of problems. Opened it up to find it filled with GEAR OIL.. NOT what you put in T5... important to use the proper fluid or you can really hurt your transmission.

That's exactly what happened to the T5 in my '86 GT. I wasn't too experienced then, and I didn't figure it out until it blew up on the highway. When I threw a new (used) tranny in, the old one reeked of gear oil.

And @polaraman , just so you know, the Mercon specified is the standard Mercon ATF. Not the Mercon V. And I would recommend investing in a Haynes manual. It'll answer most questions you might have about fluid types and capacities, and other things such as torque values.

polaraman · Mar 8, 2015

I got that info from the advance auto parts computer. Mercon V is the wrong kind?? Do I need to drain it??

02 281 GT · Mar 8, 2015

Running Mercon V may not hurt anything. I don't know enough to say for sure. Standard Mercon ATF is just what the service manual specifies. If I didn't hear any gear whine or have any grinding gears or synchro problems, I'd probably just run it with the Mercon V if it was already in there. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on substitute fluids can chime in.

jrichker · Mar 8, 2015

Input on the Dextron/Mercon question...

Since June of '06 Mercon V has superseded Dex III/Mercon as the transmission fluid recommended by Ford.

TSB
06-14-4 MERCON ATF IS BEING REPLACED BY MERCON V ATF AS A SERVICE FLUID.

Publication Date: June 29, 2006

FORD: 1980-1997 Crown Victoria
1981-1997 Mustang, Thunderbird
1981-2003 Escort
1986-1993 Festiva
1986-1997 Taurus
1989-1997 Probe
1994-1997 Aspire
1995-2000 Contour
1980-1996 Bronco
1981-2003 F-150
1981-2004 E-Series, F-Super Duty
1983-1996 Ranger
1986-1996 Aerostar
1991-1997 Explorer
1993-2004 F-53 Motorhome Chassis
1995-1998 Windstar
1997-2004 Expedition
2000-2005 Excursion
2001-2007 Escape
1987-2000 F- & B-Series
2000-2007 F-650, F-750
LINCOLN: 1980-1997 Town Car
1981-1997 Continental
1993-1997 Mark VIII
1998-2004 Navigator
2002-2003 Blackwood
MERCURY: 1980-1997 Grand Marquis
1981-1997 Cougar
1986-1997 Sable
1987-1999 Tracer
1995-2000 Mystique
1999-2002 Cougar
1993-2002 Villager
1997 Mountaineer
2005-2007 Mariner
MERKUR: 1985-1989 XR4TI

This article supersedes TSB 01-15-7 to update the vehicle application chart.

ISSUE:
MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid is being replaced by MERCON® V as a service fluid.

ACTION:
Beginning immediately all automatic transmission / transaxle applications requiring MERCON® can now be serviced using MERCON® V or MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid or dual usage fluids labeled MERCON® / MERCON® V. After July 1, 2007, MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid will no longer be manufactured, therefore, availability of this fluid will only continue for however long it takes to deplete what remains in inventory.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Service automatic transmissions requiring MERCON® with MERCON® V or MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid or dual usage fluids labeled MERCON® / MERCON® V

For proper fluid application on current and past model vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions / transaxles refer to the fluid usage chart. (Figure 1)

CAUTION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS / TRANSAXLES THAT REQUIRE MERCON® V SHOULD STILL ONLY USE MERCON® V OR DUAL USAGE FLUID LABELED MERCON® / MERCON® V.

CAUTION: MERCON® SP, MOTORCRAFT PREMIUM AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID AND MOTORCRAFT M5 ATFS ARE UNIQUE FLUIDS AND MUST BE USED IN APPLICATIONS RECOMMENDING THAT PARTICULAR FLUID. USE OF ANY OTHER FLUID MAY CAUSE REDUCED FUNCTIONALITY OR TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: THE FUNCTIONAL CHARACTERISTICS OF FLUIDS FOR CVT TRANSMISSIONS ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THOSE OF OTHER AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUIDS (ATFS). USE OF A FLUID OTHER THAN MOTORCRAFT CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE CHAIN TYPE TRANSMISSION FLUID OR ONE LABELED AS MEETING MERCON® C WILL CAUSE FUNCTIONALITY CONCERNS AND INTERNAL TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID SUPPLEMENTS, ADDITIVES, TREATMENTS OR CLEANING AGENTS.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
XT-2-QDX MERCON® (Quart)
XT-2-DDX MERCON® (55 Gal. Drum)
XT-5-QM MERCON® V (Quart)
XT-5-DM MERCON® V (55 Gal. Drum)

WARRANTY STATUS:
Information Only

polaraman · Mar 9, 2015

Great news people! I think I identified my idle issues. The vacuum line that goes from the smog canister to somewhere under the big intake thingy (sorry don't know what it's called). That line was completely collapsing. I pulled it off from under the intake but a piece of the house and clamp is still there. How do I get to that??

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