new stang...horsepower goals

[dresmnkaos]

well bought a 93 LX 2 weeks ago. an old guy t-boned me at an intersecting and totaled my GT.


well my goal for this tang. is a streetable, clean looking, 335 rwhp machine.

what im working with right now is the following:

CAI, 75mm TB, GT40 upper/lower, eagle h-beams w/ KB domed pistons, e cam, 1.6 RR, pete jackson gear drive, BBk shorties, x pipe, flowpaths.

what heads and injectors do i need to get that will push me to the mark im trying to reach? will i need to upgrade my fuel system to accommodate these parts? i had PERFORMER RPMS, but had to sale em.

 

[brands5.0]

I had good luck with AFR 165 i got from Ed curtis back in 2002.i put down an untuned 300 rwhp in my fox body.

 

[BK_CAULEY]

if you are on a budget edelbrock victor jr's prices are coming down. and the trickflow heads are not all that pricey either. AFR's cost a little more but are well worth it. and i suggest 24's with a calibrated meter. but 19's might get you there. but there duty cycle will be maxed

 

[90mustangfan]

330 Rwhp is somewhat hard to get and be streetable in N/A form...At the very least to achieve 330rwhp youll need H/C/I and 331 stroker kit, even then a a mild built 331 with average heads, not super built, passes emissions,example 331 eddy heads, off the shelf cam, Eddy performer rpm intake will only put out 305-315 rwhp. But if you want a 302 H/C/I to reach 330 youll need to spin the motor 7k big ports heads, big intake p&P'd, custom cam Rpm range 3k-7500rpm, remove all accesories, p/s, a/c, etc to get 330+rwhp, and that wont be very streetable... so with what you have I would suggest buying some afr's, get a TFs cam, Port you Gt-40 intake, get 24#, with a 75mm MAF, in combination with the mods you already have you should get around 290-300rwhp and just be happy or build a non strretable race car and have 330rwhp

Or you could put the money toward a supercharger and make 330+rwhp with a easy bolt-on, used chargers run $1000-1500, thats the cost of heads...so 300 and lots of work or 330-340rwhp simple supercharger bolt-on.

 

[Grn92LX]

^^^ terrible advice above!

It can easily be done with a stock bottom end 302 and its even easier with a freshened 302 with higher comp pistons. I'd do twisted wedge heads or afr 185's, ported performer rpm intake (if you can find one) rpm II or a holley intake, custom cam, longtubes, 75tb, 30's. Its easy if you choose the parts right. The stuff you have listed won't do it. With the right cam i'm sure even a ported gt40 intake could do it.

 

[Sicarius428]

335 to the wheels N/A isn't super easy to get on a 302 but it is not unobtainable. What is your budget? It might be cheaper to get a supercharger. It also will depend on where you want the power to come in at. There sure are a lot of dyno queens out there but for the street you probably want your power to come in a bit lower than that to make it useable. Let us know how much you have to work with. Off the bat, AFR 165s are great on the 302. Be sure to have the piston to valve clearance checked if using domed pistons. A stock GT40 probably will not have enough to get you there. You should look into getting it ported or look into a Holley, performer rpm, TFS intake. I would suggest a custom cam but for an off the shelf cam, TFS stage 2 is pretty good. Long tubes are significantly better than shorties. For fuel 190 or 255 walbro fuel pump and 30 lbs injectors. CAI won't help or hurt compared to a K&N panel filter... 75mm TB might be a tad big but will work. I am probably missing a lot of things but that should give you an idea.
Kevin

 

[bloopbloob]

^^^ terrible advice above!

agreed.

 

[dresmnkaos]

thanks for the replies. seems like im gonna have to save up some bones, lower my comp, HCI, and charger. think i can get all that for about 3 grand.

 

[Grn92LX]

you do not need hci and a supercharger for only 335rwhp. It can easily be done with a n/a 302 you had planned! hci + charger = 450-500rwhp.

 

[NKau]

330 Rwhp is somewhat hard to get and be streetable in N/A form...At the very least to achieve 330rwhp youll need H/C/I and 331 stroker kit, even then a a mild built 331 with average heads, not super built, passes emissions,example 331 eddy heads, off the shelf cam, Eddy performer rpm intake will only put out 305-315 rwhp. But if you want a 302 H/C/I to reach 330 youll need to spin the motor 7k big ports heads, big intake p&P'd, custom cam Rpm range 3k-7500rpm, remove all accesories, p/s, a/c, etc to get 330+rwhp, and that wont be very streetable... so with what you have I would suggest buying some afr's, get a TFs cam, Port you Gt-40 intake, get 24#, with a 75mm MAF, in combination with the mods you already have you should get around 290-300rwhp and just be happy or build a non strretable race car and have 330rwhp

Or you could put the money toward a supercharger and make 330+rwhp with a easy bolt-on, used chargers run $1000-1500, thats the cost of heads...so 300 and lots of work or 330-340rwhp simple supercharger bolt-on.

I'd have to agree with your assessment. I don't know what planet some of these other guys are from, but there are not a whole lot of 330 RWHP H/C/I 302 based cars running around. Even with a magical custom cam, magical AFR heads, and a magical tune, these same guys keep yammering about there just aren't that many that actually do it.

 

[90mustangfan]

Thats mostly my point, its not easy to obtain 335Rwhp, and very very few guy are running around with 335rwhp. From what Ive seen

Various H/C/I on stock bottom end 302
Mild Drive like stock but with nice power curve, very streetable
Gt-40 Heads, Gt-40 intake, E-cam est. 275-285rwhp

Average build all ots parts, streetable, passes smog, D/D
Eddy heads, Eddy intake, Tfs cam, Est. 290-300rwhp

More expensive with custom better than average build
AFR's, Ported Tfs intake, Custom cam est. 305-315rwhp

Straight Race, will not pass smog be, not streetable,
Ported Afrs, spyder intake, custom cam, spins to 7k rpm est 315-325 rwhp

This is kinda How I look at it

 

[Foxfan88]

the cheapest and easier way to make 335RWHP from a 302 is just to bolt an S trim on, and on a stock engine with bolt ons it will be plenty streetable.... would be actually better, would drive like a stocker but when you step on the gas the blower takes over.

 

[dresmnkaos]

well i would go the whole nine yards and go HCI and boost .then id have ask questions about how did you guys get your 450 hp mustangs to hook up. im jus not ready to go that route yet.

if i go the whole boost route, is there anything that i would have to change from my first post for the motor to be able to breath with the supercharger. i know the stock heads would no where near ample enough for 8-10 lbs. of boost. also i know id have to get the compression down a lil bit. with those pistons and 60 cc CC i was running a lil over 10:1.

 

[Venom351R]

For comparison I had a 95 GT with a Paxton Novi 2000 Supercharger 8-10 PSI. I had a Cobra intake, 75MMTB, 85MM Pro-M, O/R H-pipe Magnaflow Mufflers and a Custom Dyno tune chip. It put down 338 RWHP and 350 RWTQ. Stock heads, Stock cam. MOST H/C/I 5.0 engines will dyno around 300-310 RWHP. You can get your 335 RWHP but its going to take a more radical combo and port work. On the flip side its much more easy to hit 335 RWHP N/A with a bigger displacement motor. My current 351W is putting down what my boosted 5.0 did with 40 more FT LBS of TQ with much more on the way all while staying N/A. I like to be able to say I can do the same N/A on the dyno and at the track as others have done with the aid of Boost. Just another feather to stick in your hat.

 

[Foxfan88]

well i would go the whole nine yards and go HCI and boost .then id have ask questions about how did you guys get your 450 hp mustangs to hook up. im jus not ready to go that route yet.

if i go the whole boost route, is there anything that i would have to change from my first post for the motor to be able to breath with the supercharger. i know the stock heads would no where near ample enough for 8-10 lbs. of boost. also i know id have to get the compression down a lil bit. with those pistons and 60 cc CC i was running a lil over 10:1.

the stock heads will work fine. it will just be easier and require less blower speed to make 10 psi on a stock engine.

replace the stocker with a good breathing HCI and it make make a pound or two less. because the HCI is moving more air by itself. the blower only makes 10 psi on the stocker, it wont be able to move enough air to cause a pressure build up of 10 psi on the HCI engine so it makes less boost. less boost means less heat due to air molecule friction, so you can increase boost on your HCI to make more power.

you can always increase boost on any engine to make any power you want, but boost is heat, the more boost is more heat so anything you can do to make the engine more efficient to make less boost is something to strive for. or you can get an intercooler to cool the incoming air. your blower wont make as much boost on the HCI engine buts its moving the same amount of air, you can in turn increase the boost for additional airflow and more power. and be back to say the 10 psi you started at and you wont be running any intake temps higher than you did with the factory engine.

the ultimate goal with a blower or turbo assuming your looking for MAX power is
to run the MOST boost you can and keep the air temp as low as you can. but due to stock blocks and factory parts we are limited to how much boost we can run. for example a 302 with a blower and HCI making 10 psi is certainly enough power to break a stock block. if looking for serious power your going to need the bottom end to handle it. you can always make the power the trick is holding it all together.

 

[back2fox]

Here is what I did with my H/C/I and the power I got out of it.

Stock '88 short block
Thumper heads, upgraded springs to match cam
CI custom cam from Jay
Ported lower and upper stock intake from Tmoss

Put down 265 rwhp and 297 rwtq

I added 75hp NX wet shot to get me in the 335 rwhp range.

The build cost me around $2500 total. The money adds up quick because you end up changing out rockers, timing chain, pushrods, lifters, balancer and of course you need gaskets. Good luck with everything.

 

[dresmnkaos]

i think the route im gonna go is keep the stuff i got now, do some port work on the intake, rebuild the stock heads with some valve work, and buy a s trim. ill be happy with what ever the car puts down (as long as its over 300).

im not really going for any block splitting power right now anyway. i jus want a fun and drivable machine that is quick as all get out.

how good will the E cam and the charger play together.

how much of a PITA is it to change the heads over to stud mounted roller rockers.

 

[PJC Racing]

Your not going to get over 300 with the parts you have, even with porting the intake.

As for the E cam, you will need to upgrade the valve train.

 

[dresmnkaos]

yep, thats why im going the boost route.

what do i have to do to change my heads over to stud mounted roller rockers?

 

[Foxfan88]

either have a machine shop enlarge the holes to a 3/8 or 7/17 threads and get the appropriate studs and guide plates.

or crane makes a conversion kit to run a stud setup on stock heads, the stud is 3/8 while the bottom part threading into the head is 5/16 like the stock rocker bolts the factory uses. its pretty cheap, under 100$ but i would be leary of a small thread in the head. i guess it couldnt be any weaker than stock though.

having a shop drill the holes out may cost you more but it will be stronger.

honestly thought i wouldnt waste the time running studs on stock heads.

if you plan a doing a HCI later. just toss the stock stuff together, dont worry about the small stuff the blower will make a huge difference in power even on a stock engine. an e-cam would be alright for a N/A engine but i wouldnt use it as a blower cam, it has too much valve overlap and will tend to bleed boost out the exhaust valve during periods of overlap.

for a stock headed car, i'd use the stock cam, has a 116* LSA, meaning less overlap and works good with a stock engine, macthing the stock heads and all. not to mention the good driveability it will have. a good running stock engine responds well to 8-10 psi.

i'd wait for the cam if you go HCI later. save up and get some nice heads. maybe a TFS top end kit and swap out the cam for a better blower cam.