New to the Fox game

CNICO

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Hey guys whats up. Finally got my hands on a (mostly rust free) 93 Fox. Early stages of the rebuild at this point so looking for lots of pointers. Currently I have the entire interior stripped out minus dash and welded in a new passenger floor pan. The previous owner sent this fox to die in a field after they had their way with it. There were actual mice that ate thru the old seats. Need to redo all of that at a later date. Luckly the dash is intact and all the wiring is still undamaged. I have also removed the fuel tank and lines. Minus the passenger floor rust, the rest of the car is rust free including the usual truble spots around the K-member and strut towers, frame is also straight. So I am in good shape there.

I bought a new engine from a 87-92 that has been freshly built with a B303 Cam, 531 heads, 1.7RR, shorty headers, new water pump etc..and set up for EFI. The previous owner essentially trashed the current engine because they were trying to "drift" it or something dumb like that. Either way, I figured it was better to start fresh than to try and rebuild something I am not entirely sure of its history. Plus... 87-92 has the forged pistons.

The plan is to put 24lb injectors, 70MM MAF w/ 65MM throttle body, 255LPH pump. Going to need some advice as I pull the old motor out and transfer usable parts onto the new one and build on what I have now. Not a pro mechanic or anything so I am sure I will have plenty of questions. Forums say for my setup run 10-14 degrees of timing?

The overall goal here is to return the fox to as stock as possible with a better engine obviously. Not looking to do anything like IRS rear or crazy mods, just want it to be a clean reliable fox true to its roots with a slightly modern interior. Seems like this is a fairly attainable goal, but the details are what matters. Don't want to end up with an expensive parts bin sitting in my driveway.

-Nick
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
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Welcome to stangnet. Sounds like you got a good starting point. Keep this thread going by updating your progress, ask any questions and post pics! You can edit your title to reflect what you are doing.
 

CNICO

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Appreciate it, and will do. This is my first build so I am hoping I can learn from those who have done it before and keep the project going. My fox is going to need a complete rebuild, paint, interior, suspension etc.. The only useful parts are the body panels, dash, and frame. Its shaping up to be a full build.

My starting point is with the engine as mentioned. It would be helpful to know what order I should fix this things (like when should I send it to the paint booth) so I can know what to focus on.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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Well there are several ways to approach this. You can blow it all apart, rebuild/clean up the drive train and interior a piece at a time while working on the body/paint then put it all together. This takes up space/time and is dependent on organisational skills.
Or start at one end and rebuild/clean and paint in sections and then paint the body.
 

LILCBRA

I started this morning by knocking out some studs
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There are a million and one ways to go about it! The way I tend to approach my projects is to make it the way I want mechanically, then tackle paint and body.
 
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CNICO

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All solid points. I was thinking that my order of operations would be:

1. Build the new engine transferring as many parts from the old one + buying new where needed.
2. Work on the trans with new clutch components etc..
3. Fuel tank, pump, filler hose, lines and components
5. While the engine is out being built, replace K-member, steering components, brakes

I know the wiring harness is still good because the current engine turns over and all of the dash lights + exterior lights like blinkers work. Hopefully (if I build the new engine correctly) I can have a clean swap and not have to adjust the wiring harness. I am going to need some help with the engine set up (pics attached).

My goal is to have the engine running and all of the front end components taken care of in one shot this winter. I would like to get it mechanically sound and all of that work taken care of before I do the rest of the body work/ paint/ interior.
 

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Olivethefet

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Sounds like you have a nice project going! I'd put some painters tape across the top of the lower intake to keep "stuff" from getting in there. What are your plans for the suspension? You're right, now with the engine out would be a great time to address the K-member and front suspension. Is there something wrong with the K-member? I'd like to change mine just because I'd like to have a tubular one. The factory one in it is fine though.

It's a good time to also go through the steering as well. Rack and pinion, tie rods, steering shaft (rag joint), wheel bearings, brakes, bump steer kit if its lowered or will be lowered.

With the motor out you can get to the AC lines going to the evaporator easy as well, and the lines to the heater core. If you were thinking about doing anything with that system now might be a good time as well.
 

CNICO

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Right now I am planning on a tube style K-member, probably one of those full kits from LMR. I'd like to replace the current setup with coilovers to have a lower stance but plan on keeping the brakes (front and rear) stock. There isn't anything wrong with the current K-member other than it being greasy and old. I think I will cross that bridge when I get there, the decision largely depending on funding. I am looking to make this more of a cruiser, so I don't need a super high speed setup. The more parts I can recycle to cut down on costs the better. That being said, if something needs to be replaced I will. Don't want to do it on the cheap only to have to fix it later on.

Agree with checking out all the components while the engine it out. The previous owner tore out all AC components and heater core hoses, so I would assume the dreaded heater core will need to be replaced. Out of all the parts on this car, those and the door panels are the ones I am least fired up to fix.

For right now though, I am going to focus on building the new engine.
 
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Olivethefet

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I replaced my entire AC system. This is the kit that I used. You can rent the gauges and vac pump from a big box auto parts store. I got mine from O'Reilly.


Pulling the heater core is a pain, but compared to everything else you're doing its not the end of the world.

Again, right there with you on the k-member.
 

LILCBRA

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If you don't need a super-high-speed setup then, in order to save funding for other things you want to do with the car, I think I'd just throw some lowering springs in it and call it a day. Then, at a later date, invest in the K-member, coil overs, etc. While it would be an opportune time to change the K-member now, it will also cost you some coin to do everything you're talking about. That money could be used to, let's say, redo your interior. Just my 2 cents.
 
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CNICO

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That AC link is exactly what I need. Glad to see its a complete kit instead of individual pieces.

I think there is a lot of hype about tube K-members over the stock one. While the selling point for the tube is less weight, it looks cooler, and the components are less clunky than stock, I think for the purposes of driving around town the stock one could work for a while. I am not completely sold on the idea that a $900+ dollar investment in one and its associated components would net substantial benefits in a mostly stock build.

The other argument is do I really want to go back and replace it later? Hard to say right now, but again not quite there yet.

Regarding the fuel lines, I have the new tank + components assembled and ready to install. Really don't want to put in the pre-bent nonesne steel lines back in. Does anybody have a good setup for an AN line run between stock fuel tank setup and fuel rails on the engine? Would like to run those so its ready for when I drop the new engine back in.
 

jrichker

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The true AN fittings are 37° and most of the flaring tools are 45°; you can't mix and match a 37° flare with a 45° flare.15. See http://www.mscdirect.com/ , http://www.mcmaster.com/ or for the flaring tool you will need . Prices start at $85 and go up

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PACACHE=000000013509163
7478363-11.jpg


http://www.mcmaster.com/#flaring-tools/=b4fxc3


For more info on the 37° flaring tools can be found at https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQnPJu5bHSUp4HABPTKK6CAaNOZWA:1573082371588&source=hp&ei=A1XDXZDHIafm_Qbyxo2YDQ&q=37+degree+flaring+tool&oq=37+degree+flaring+tool&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l6j0i22i30l4.1771.11578..19586...0.0..0.148.1959.16j6....2..0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.H6_vv6hxNU8&ved=0ahUKEwjQ1NW_3NblAhUnc98KHXJjA9MQ4dUDCAs&uact=5#spf=1573082390501

Input from Stangnet's @CarMichael Angelo would probably be to avoid the El Cheapo 37°fittings and hose from Summit. Stick with Russel or Aeroquip and you will be good.

You will need to run some new fuel feed lines or braided hose. The 3/8" aluminum tubing works well, but you will need a flaring tool and bending springs to fabricate the lines. Braided hose is easy to run and route, but is much more expensive. It is about $3.50-$4.00 a foot plus the end fittings, which are $3-$4 each. Fabricating hose assembles can be difficult, but anyplace that makes hydraulic hoses can do it for you for an extra charge. See http://www.amazonhose.com for more information.

For some help fabricating your own stainless steel hose assemblies, see

For stainless steel braided hose and fittings for automotive use:
See http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=stainless steel hose&dds=1
Or http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=stainless steel hose&dds=1

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&N=0&Ntt=stainless+steel+hose&Ntk=all&Nty=1&D=stainless+steel+hose&Ntx=mode+matchall&Dx=mode+matchall&searchTerm=stainless+steel+hose&x=18&y=4

13. See http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/ProductsbyName/Aeroquip/AeroquipPerformanceProducts/FittingsProducts/index.htm for more information on High performance automotive hose products
 

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CNICO

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@jrichker

Good to know before I bought anything else! Thanks for the information.

Right now I have the LMR kit with the standard rubber feed lines from the tank to the filter. The kit stood out to me because it came with a 225lph pump for the 24lb injectors I am going to run in the new engine.

That being said, its still a stock build. Based on your last post it seems like the steel lines might be the way to go over the AN lines/ fittings. Any easy tricks to install the pre-bent steel ones or brands that are better than others?

As a note the previous owner of this project who tried to turn this into a drift project installed some sort of pre-bent lines and F*C#D it all up. Highly suspect and lazy install. So i had to rip everything underneath out and just start fresh.
 

Olivethefet

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Others can chime in on this one, but if I was buying injectors I think I would buy one size bigger than I thought I needed. If I understand it correctly you can have larger injectors then you need without negatively affecting performance. The injectors will just operate at a lower duty cycle. The only reason I bring it up is that the injectors are not cheap and it never hurts to have room to grow. Basically pay a little more now to potentially save some money down the road.
 

2000xp8

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Buy the injectors you need. Going a size up will not do any good.
Not sure what 531 heads are, but you may not need more than 19's especially if there is a b cam in there.

For suspension if you only want to do it once, stick to the Maximum motorsports catalog.
Going to get costly, so you may want to heed lilcobra's warning and skip some of the non essentials now, like the k member.

While k members look cool, all they really do is offer more working clearance, which is nice, but not necessary.
The good kit's worth buying don't save much weight.
The cheaper stuff is weaker, so i see no point in any of them.
 

CNICO

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Buy the injectors you need. Going a size up will not do any good.
Not sure what 531 heads are, but you may not need more than 19's especially if there is a b cam in there.

For suspension if you only want to do it once, stick to the Maximum motorsports catalog.
Going to get costly, so you may want to heed lilcobra's warning and skip some of the non essentials now, like the k member.

While k members look cool, all they really do is offer more working clearance, which is nice, but not necessary.
The good kit's worth buying don't save much weight.
The cheaper stuff is weaker, so i see no point in any of them.

That helped me make up my mind on the K-member. I think I will leave it and focus on other quality suspension parts when I get there.

As far as the engine is concerned, the bottom end is a stock 87-92 mustang 5.0 spec 302, the heads are older, 1969 I believe, and had some mild work done. The purpose of those is that they should give a slight compression bump (nothing too major, but still an increase in power), and they flow better than the stock 302. The cam is aftermarket, not sure P/N, but is a crane, similar to a B303 Ford cam.

Still think I should use 19s? I am not sure what the HP specs are, but I would assume around 300
 

2000xp8

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I've yet to see someone (in over 25 years) make any type of significant gains by using old heads. Questionable head work doesn't really help the cause either. Not sure i'd want to run any 50 year old head, especially without a full history on them.
If you had proof of headwork, larger valves etc. I guess they could be ok, but I still wouldn't do it.

19's are good to somewhere in the rang of 275-300rwhp. I've even seen them used successfully with the trick flow top end kit which produces a consistent 300rwhp (not something i suggest, but it's been done).

A b cam, unknown 50 year old heads, not sure on your intake, i'd find it highly unlikely you exceed 19's.
But you never know.
 

CNICO

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I've yet to see someone (in over 25 years) make any type of significant gains by using old heads. Questionable head work doesn't really help the cause either. Not sure i'd want to run any 50 year old head, especially without a full history on them.
If you had proof of headwork, larger valves etc. I guess they could be ok, but I still wouldn't do it.

19's are good to somewhere in the rang of 275-300rwhp. I've even seen them used successfully with the trick flow top end kit which produces a consistent 300rwhp (not something i suggest, but it's been done).

A b cam, unknown 50 year old heads, not sure on your intake, i'd find it highly unlikely you exceed 19's.
But you never know.

Meant to say 351W* not 531 in the earlier post. They have hardened value seats, and have been redone. Would that change your opinion on this build, or would you still say no go on the older heads?
 

LILCBRA

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I think you could use those heads. But then again if you're not going to sink money into the K member and all of that for now, sink that money into a set of heads. There are FAR better performing heads that you could get compared to those, even with whatever work has been done to them. Those heads will be a limiting factor for your goals. If you're looking to get around 300 HP from your engine, take a look at my sig. My car is running pig-rich right now (the carb needs tuned in the WORST way!), but it can give you a rough estimate of what you'll need to get there.
 

CNICO

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Hmm, now I am second guessing my new engine build. Again not looking for anything crazy, its just what came on the new engine.