Nitrous Guru's What do you think?

uhoh5.0 · Dec 5, 2006

I was just wondering if this is logical. If you set up a basic dry nitous kit on an 04' GT (ie returnless fuel system therfore no fuel pressure regulator) would this work? Bottle to one N2O solenoid, a WOT switch, with a tuner return to factory timing (very conservative) add a small basline increase in fuel at WOT, and a kenne bell boost-a-pump. The kenne bell boost-a-pump has a manifold pressure sensor that can detect a rise in boost in a supercharged application then it increases the voltage to the fuel pump which therfore increases fuel pressure. So why wouldn't that work with a N2O application? My understanding is that an injector (say 19lbs/hr) flows a particular amount of fuel at a given fuel pressure. So, when fuel pressure is increased the amount of fuel flowing thru the injector can be increased too. Anyways, I think this is very similiar to the dry kit offered by edelbrock but I could do it for several hundred dollars cheaper. I don't know, maybe we could be onto something here? If this would work, you could theoretically have the benefits of N2O in ay something like a 75hp shot without the risk of fuel puddling and the system would be super simple to install!

the98stang · Dec 5, 2006

uhoh5.0 said:
I was just wondering if this is logical. If you set up a basic dry nitous kit on an 04' GT (ie returnless fuel system therfore no fuel pressure regulator) would this work? Bottle to one N2O solenoid, a WOT switch, with a tuner return to factory timing (very conservative) add a small basline increase in fuel at WOT, and a kenne bell boost-a-pump. The kenne bell boost-a-pump has a manifold pressure sensor that can detect a rise in boost in a supercharged application then it increases the voltage to the fuel pump which therfore increases fuel pressure. So why wouldn't that work with a N2O application? My understanding is that an injector (say 19lbs/hr) flows a particular amount of fuel at a given fuel pressure. So, when fuel pressure is increased the amount of fuel flowing thru the injector can be increased too. Anyways, I think this is very similiar to the dry kit offered by edelbrock but I could do it for several hundred dollars cheaper. I don't know, maybe we could be onto something here? If this would work, you could theoretically have the benefits of N2O in ay something like a 75hp shot without the risk of fuel puddling and the system would be super simple to install!

The benefit with the dry kit is that you have less chance of blowing your intake mani. But the fact is, your still relying on your PCM to regulate and control all the extra nitrous coming into the engine. It is still more dangerous than a wet kit, even when you have a BAP/pump and injectors. If you want the safest kit, you need direct port. You get what you pay for....

uhoh5.0 · Dec 5, 2006

What about spraying just a small shot past the MAF sensor? Like 50 or 75 hp???

uhoh5.0 · Dec 7, 2006

Does anyone have any experience with spraying past the MAF sensor?

GT04Mustang · Dec 7, 2006

uhoh5.0 said:
Does anyone have any experience with spraying past the MAF sensor?

Yes... I sprayed a 75 PAST my MAF. Found on a dyno that is was leaning out around 6000 RPM to 12.5:1. The injectors couldn't keep up with the 75 up high in the rpm. Plus the duty cycle was 100% at 6000 RPM.

uhoh5.0 · Dec 7, 2006

12.5:1 is actually pretty rich I think. The ideal air to fuel ratio is about 14:1, so if you were at 12.5:1 thats pretty safe I think?

uhoh5.0 · Dec 7, 2006

I just think that for occasional use and the fact that the compucar dry kit is pretty much hidden its a great set-up and its very reasonably priced. Also, I guess if I bought it and didn't like the "dryness" of it i could always convert it to a wet kit pretty easily. I think I should just verify the air/fuel ratio on the dyno and I think I would be good. Plus, if you activate at full throttle, you could always add some fuel into the tune and back the timing down a little. I think a person could reasonably do that with a handheld tuner. And if your checking plugs regularly my gut says you would be fine. Like I mentioned earlier, the only other safety feature that I could think to add would be the Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump which would allow you to increase the fuel pressure a little on demand so that you could get a little more fuel out of your injectors. I guess the other option would be to go up to 24lb injectors and a bigger mass air meter and an upgraded fuel pump then everything should be able to keep up. Although, I probably wouldn't spray more than 75 thru a dry kit that runs past the MAF sensor anyway.

Are we on to something here???

Stan Weiss · Dec 8, 2006

Not to say what would be best, but if you want see how a change in fuel pressure will change the flow of your injectors I have a calculator on my web site you can use.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/index.html#jcalc

DTMach1 · Dec 8, 2006

add the extra fuel and pray...you should be fine

mustangman9812 · Dec 9, 2006

Get A Zex Nitrous Kit - Does it for you hehe

A Little High Though

jstreet0204 · Dec 9, 2006

uhoh5.0 said:
12.5:1 is actually pretty rich I think. The ideal air to fuel ratio is about 14:1, so if you were at 12.5:1 thats pretty safe I think?

The Ideal ratio under WOT is NEVER 14:1 you are talking about stoich which you only use under light load situations. WOT is always tuned to be richer. Safe on a n/a is 13:1 safe on a power adder car is around 11.5:1

Stan Weiss · Dec 9, 2006

Let start by saying I have never run nitrous. Remember air fuel ratio is by weight. You put gallons of gasoline in the tank and your injectors are rated in lbs per hour. So without changing your tune and by changing the specify gravity of the gas you put in your car you change you fuel air ratio unless the computer adjusts the duty cycle. Check on some of the manufactures site and you will see the nitrous air fuel ratio is different from the gas air fuel ratio. Where I am going with this I believe you need a separate tune for when you use nitrous at wot than just gas at wot.

Rickey_Bobby · Dec 9, 2006

I wonder what a 6000rpm explosion would sound like running 19lb injectors with a homemade dry nitrous setup at 14:1...

Red35th · Dec 10, 2006

jstreet0204 said:
The Ideal ratio under WOT is NEVER 14:1 you are talking about stoich which you only use under light load situations. WOT is always tuned to be richer. Safe on a n/a is 13:1 safe on a power adder car is around 11.5:1

Yup.

Alot of the '03 cobra guys are spraying a small shot before the MAF. With 19 lb/hr injectors I'd be wary of going over even a 50 shot.

In all honesty I'd just get a wet kit. Easy and reliable.

Don't forget to change your plugs and ALWAYS check the a/f with a wideband.

mustangman9812 · Dec 10, 2006

So you should at least get 24lb/hr injectors?

the98stang · Dec 10, 2006

dry kits= dangerous for the motor

Sell the kit, and get a wet kit. Period.

uhoh5.0 · Dec 10, 2006

Well.......

I guess this is what I've come up with. I'm very scared about running a wet kit and the risk of fuel pooling in our intake manifold. So, my initial thought was to experiment with a dry kit but I really have not found a system any safer (probably less safe) then the current wet kits. The best scenario I was able to come up with was just a generic dry kit that has a special tune that is "dyno tuned". I think this is a pretty good idea for a small shot like 75hp and I talked to someone that had some experience with this type of set-up and a "flip-chip". But, to my dismay he said the kit worked great...until one day when he "flipped" programs and sprayed the car but the "nitrous only" tune did not engage and he blew his motor
This same fellow had also experimented with a dry shot that sprayed thru the MAF sensor but when verifying results on the dyno the nitrous (air) to fuel ratio was shaky at best in his words. So, I think as of now my decision is to invest in a set of cams and spend the money that I was going to on a good nitrous set-up on a set of cams and a dyno tune. I know, I know a completely new can of worms

Pennywise2 · Dec 10, 2006

the98stang said:
The benefit with the dry kit is that you have less chance of blowing your intake mani. But the fact is, your still relying on your PCM to regulate and control all the extra nitrous coming into the engine. It is still more dangerous than a wet kit, even when you have a BAP/pump and injectors. If you want the safest kit, you need direct port. You get what you pay for....

+1 What Tanner said.
Go with a Nitrous Express plate system instead of going dry.
Nitrous is as safe as you make it my friend.

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