No cats vs. High flow cats

BullDog71ss · Jun 28, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
Lol no. Just used to loud cars. Our '05 has straight thru magnaflow side exhaust with off road x, and the '07 had Violators (basically a straight thru louvered tube) and off road H. So putting the stock mufflers back on made it extremely quiet in comparison.

My fiance left today, and I faintly heard her pull out of the garage today in the '07, and could only hear her about 500 feet down the road. (she wasn't really getting on it, though). So, I wouldn't consider that loud. At WOT, they get pretty loud, but again, nothing like the Violators. When I ran my car on the dyno, the dyno guy plugged his ears and mouthed (That's *****ing loud!) I guess it's just all in what you're used to. But I do think a chambered muffler with off road H is pretty tame, though sounds very good. The Magnaflows I just put on are crazy deep.

Well, if you like em loud, you like em loud I guess. Heh.

I'd say the setup I have would satisfy most Mustangs owners needs for exhaust tone and loudness...but for the few of you crazy sob's out there I suppose it might be a bit sedate.

I've got a pair of electric cut-outs laying around still...how's that for loud???

DarkFireGT · Jun 28, 2008

No cutouts for me. While I like it loud, I like it sculptured.

The only problem I had with the stock mufflers was the deepness (and tips). If they were as deep as the Magnaflows, I probably would've just stuck with those and gotten different tips.

FastHorse · Jun 28, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I want my car to be a bit louder, but I am not sure about whether or not I want to go to a full off-road pipe. I was wondering, is there any benefit (performance wise) to high flow cats, like the bassanni X? Is there much of a gain if you have no cats vs. high flow cats? And are high flow cats louder than stock? Almost as loud as no cats?

Lastly, has anyone had warranty work on their cars with an off-road or high flow midpipe? Did the dealer care?

If you plan on Drag Racing your car for best performance gains no cats. You will definately need a dyno tune or your check engine light will be on... If you dont plan on racing, or racing every now and then... just go with the cats.

I had a 2005 Mustang GT... FRPP Shorties, Bassani Off road X-Pipe, Magnaflow Mufflers, Moto Blue Underdrive pulleys, AFE Cold Air Intake, FRPP 3.73 Gears... On ET Streets I could Run 12.7ets all day at the track. My best time was a 12.6et. The car was noticeably louder without cats but you really cant tell unless you have it floored....

FastHorse · Jun 28, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I want my car to be a bit louder, but I am not sure about whether or not I want to go to a full off-road pipe. I was wondering, is there any benefit (performance wise) to high flow cats, like the bassanni X? Is there much of a gain if you have no cats vs. high flow cats? And are high flow cats louder than stock? Almost as loud as no cats?

Lastly, has anyone had warranty work on their cars with an off-road or high flow midpipe? Did the dealer care?

I forgot to add the most important part... SCT X-cal 2 with custom 93 octane Team JDM Tune. (Mail Ordered) My car went from a best of 13.2 to Nearly Mid 12's with the tune. It was amazing.

red05bullitgt · Jun 29, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
Hmm, so they aren't quite as loud as no cats, but much louder than stock.. Anyone know from good evidence wether there is a performance gain to no cats vs. high flow?

I don't know what I want to do, stick with stock, get a high flow catted X pipe, or an offroad X or H pipe. I have a violator axleback.

And what about the warranty question, has anyone had work done on their car with an aftermarket midpipe?

As I mentioned before, if your looking for a deeper/throatier sound. You definitely do NOT want to go with an X-pipe, as they're well known for producing higher pitched tones over H-pipes.

I also have Pypes Violators on my Mustang with a MAC prochamber, and have definitely noticed a deeper, but smoother exhaust note over the stock H-pipe.

As for high-flow cats not sounding as loud. I would also agree they're not going to be quite as loud as an off road mid-pipe, but will definitely sound louder over the stock mid-pipe.

High-flow cats along with stock cats, also have another advantage as well. They reduce trumpeting along with that tinny sound, that usually occurs from running off road mid pipes.

So for that reason, I decided to go with high-flow cats, and couldn't be happier with my sound quality.

Once again, as myself and others have previously mentioned. There is very little to be gained performance wise concerning the high-flow cats vs. no cats debate. In which the difference is more than likely to be so minimal, that your not going to really feel or notice anything worthwhile anyhow.

That being said, if you intend on sticking with your Pypes Violators. I would highly recommend either purchasing the MRT high-flow catted H-pipe, or Pypes off road H-pipe from Brenspeed. However just as DarkFire mentioned, your Violators will end up sounding extremely loud with an off road mid pipe, so just be forewarned !

fastblueroush · Jul 1, 2008

What are MAC prochambers?

Is it a mid-pipe with Cats?

Actually, let me take a step back.

What are the components to an exhaust? I think I have it here, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Headers feed a mid-pipe(with cats "stock") then an axle back to mufflers ??????

Obviously, I don't know much other than I know I love my sweet mustang and how it sounds. I too want to sweeten up my sound, but am in my 40's and do drive it to work in the summer. Everyone there already think's I'm 16, I don't need to prove it with some freaky loud exhaust system.

I currently have stock headers, stock cats (H pipe is stock?) then I have Roush off-road mufflers with Roush tips (It's a stage1 modded with their Roushcharger).

Can I just add the MAC prochambers in place of my stock mid-pipe and on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being loudest, how much louder will it get over the stock mid-pipe?

You guys are awesome, and I really do appreciate how much you guys share and educate us Mustang lovers with no mechanical experience.

FASTBLUEROUSH !!!!!!!!!!!!

NastyStang113 · Jul 1, 2008

Basically you've got everything down as far as how the exhaust system works. However the stock "headers" are actually called exhaust manifolds. Anyways, my suggestion is to get the MAC X Pipe. It's got a choice of being ran with cats or no cats. It's $200 with free shipping from Brenspeed. So this way you'd be able to try out both set-ups and decide which one is better for you. Running the X Pipe with cats, isn't going to make it much louder, a little bit different tone. Running the X Pipe with no cats, it's going to change the tone and make it a bit louder. I don't believe you can get a Prochamber anymore with cats, only a catless set-up.

UrbanRedneck · Jul 1, 2008

I really love the tone of my Violators, I jsut want it a little louder. In all honesty, is there any performance gain to a different midpipe? Brenspeed's site claims 10 horsepower from a Bassani X, but I also have to realise that they are trying to sell stuff as well. I originally was going to get an offroad H pipe because I love the sound in Darkfire's video (Evolution of Scarlett), but now he has me worried that it is too loud, so I'm not sure. I can get a good deal on a used Bassani X pipe with the high flow cats that are removable, so I was thinking of picking that up, because I figure high flow cats is like a step in between the two. But I don't know how the X pipe will sound. My brother used to have a 99 Mustang with Dynomax race bullets, and it sounded wicked with an X pipe, but that is a glasspack muffler. I know that chambered mufflers sound horrible with X pipes, but I don't know about louvered tubes like the Violator.... I guess I could try it and resell the pipe if I don't like it..

So, the two most important questions are: Does ANYONE here have an X pipe with Pypes VIolators?

And, Can I expect to see any real performance gain after installing an X pipe with highflow cats (or an offroad H pipe, offroad X pipe, or anything else)?

Oh yeah and still noone has answered as to wether or not they've had their car serviced under warranty with an aftermarket mid pipe.

red05bullitgt · Jul 1, 2008

fastblueroush said:
What are MAC prochambers?

Is it a mid-pipe with Cats?

Actually, let me take a step back.

What are the components to an exhaust? I think I have it here, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Headers feed a mid-pipe(with cats "stock") then an axle back to mufflers ??????

Obviously, I don't know much other than I know I love my sweet mustang and how it sounds. I too want to sweeten up my sound, but am in my 40's and do drive it to work in the summer. Everyone there already think's I'm 16, I don't need to prove it with some freaky loud exhaust system.

I currently have stock headers, stock cats (H pipe is stock?) then I have Roush off-road mufflers with Roush tips (It's a stage1 modded with their Roushcharger).

Can I just add the MAC prochambers in place of my stock mid-pipe and on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being loudest, how much louder will it get over the stock mid-pipe?

You guys are awesome, and I really do appreciate how much you guys share and educate us Mustang lovers with no mechanical experience.

FASTBLUEROUSH !!!!!!!!!!!!

The MAC prochamber, is commonly referred to as a hybrid H-pipe.

What I really like about the prochamber, is it deepens the sound like an off road H-pipe, but also the exhaust gases flow smoother, and more efficient like an X-pipe. So in other words, you get the best of both worlds.

Anyway the answer to your question, is the prochamber is now only available as an off-road mid-pipe, as MAC was forced to discontinue it's catted prochamber due to the catalyitc converter manufacturer, refusing to honor warranty claims on their cats.

In the meantime, If your looking for that deeper/muscle car sound, you definitely do NOT want to get an X-pipe, as they're very well known for producing higher pitched tones along with sounding more raspy and tinny, over both stock and off road H-pipes.

However if you prefer a more smoother, and exotic type of sound. Then an off-road or high-flow catted X-pipe, might just be your best option.

That being said, it all depends on your personal preference. As some prefer the sound of deep, old school/muscle car rumble. While others prefer the smoother, more exotic European sound

red05bullitgt · Jul 2, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I really love the tone of my Violators, I jsut want it a little louder. In all honesty, is there any performance gain to a different midpipe? Brenspeed's site claims 10 horsepower from a Bassani X, but I also have to realise that they are trying to sell stuff as well. I originally was going to get an offroad H pipe because I love the sound in Darkfire's video (Evolution of Scarlett), but now he has me worried that it is too loud, so I'm not sure. I can get a good deal on a used Bassani X pipe with the high flow cats that are removable, so I was thinking of picking that up, because I figure high flow cats is like a step in between the two. But I don't know how the X pipe will sound. My brother used to have a 99 Mustang with Dynomax race bullets, and it sounded wicked with an X pipe, but that is a glasspack muffler. I know that chambered mufflers sound horrible with X pipes, but I don't know about louvered tubes like the Violator.... I guess I could try it and resell the pipe if I don't like it..

So, the two most important questions are: Does ANYONE here have an X pipe with Pypes VIolators?

And, Can I expect to see any real performance gain after installing an X pipe with highflow cats (or an offroad H pipe, offroad X pipe, or anything else)?

Oh yeah and still noone has answered as to wether or not they've had their car serviced under warranty with an aftermarket mid pipe.

Let me set the record straight about Brenspeed, right here and now. They are far more about just selling stuff. They're also one of the top 10 SCT tuners in the U.S. In which I can tell you from personal experience, they always put their customers first, and will not sell you a product, unless it's proven to work as advertised. In addition, they also test every product they sell, and have 4 different test vehicles.

I can also tell you from personal experience, the staff from Brenspeed are very knowledgeable and friendly people, who take the time in addressing each and every technical question and concern, in a professional and courteous manor.

That being said, you can be assured that when Brenspeed claims the Bassani X-pipe made 10HP. that it's indeed accurate.

However being that I also have Pypes Violators on my Mustang. I would definitely not recommend getting an X-pipe, because Pypes Violators will have a higher pitched sounding tone with an X-pipe, and will also sound both raspy and tinny as well.

Therefore, I highly recommend getting an off road H-pipe instead. As a matter of fact, Brenspeed also has the Pypes off-road H-pipe as well, which produced 8-10 HP on the dyno. Otherwise, I would consider getting an MRT high-flow catted H-pipe instead.

As for warranty related issues, unless the aftermarket part is directly responsible for causing the warranted parts in question to fail. Ford cannot refuse to service your car under a warranty claim !

red05bullitgt · Jul 2, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
And, Can I expect to see any real performance gain after installing an X pipe with highflow cats (or an offroad H pipe, offroad X pipe, or anything else)?

UrbanRedneck, If you had bothered to read over post#25, on page. 1 of this thread. You would've noticed, that I previously answered your question, however I'll re-post it again anyway.

red05bullitgt said:
As for high-flow cats not sounding as loud. I would also agree they're not going to be quite as loud as an off road mid-pipe, but will definitely sound louder over the stock mid-pipe.

Once again, as myself and others have previously mentioned. There is very little to be gained performance wise concerning the high-flow cats vs. no cats debate. In which the difference is more than likely to be so minimal, that your not going to really feel or notice anything worthwhile anyhow.

DarkFireGT · Jul 2, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I really love the tone of my Violators, I jsut want it a little louder. In all honesty, is there any performance gain to a different midpipe? Brenspeed's site claims 10 horsepower from a Bassani X, but I also have to realise that they are trying to sell stuff as well. I originally was going to get an offroad H pipe because I love the sound in Darkfire's video (Evolution of Scarlett), but now he has me worried that it is too loud, so I'm not sure. I can get a good deal on a used Bassani X pipe with the high flow cats that are removable, so I was thinking of picking that up, because I figure high flow cats is like a step in between the two. But I don't know how the X pipe will sound. My brother used to have a 99 Mustang with Dynomax race bullets, and it sounded wicked with an X pipe, but that is a glasspack muffler. I know that chambered mufflers sound horrible with X pipes, but I don't know about louvered tubes like the Violator.... I guess I could try it and resell the pipe if I don't like it..

So, the two most important questions are: Does ANYONE here have an X pipe with Pypes VIolators?

And, Can I expect to see any real performance gain after installing an X pipe with highflow cats (or an offroad H pipe, offroad X pipe, or anything else)?

Oh yeah and still noone has answered as to wether or not they've had their car serviced under warranty with an aftermarket mid pipe.

Well, the good thing is that the Pypes Off Road H is cheap. If it's too loud for you, you're not out a mint. Actually, I would say try it out. If it's too loud, pick up a set of Pypes high flow cats and have an exhaust shop weld them in. You'd still be spending less than the MRT catted H when all was said and done.

I loved the sound of the off road H with Violators, and ran it for a year. I'm just really trying not to get pulled over right now. Not that I ever did get pulled over. Just being a little paranoid, I guess.

blbrchnk · Jul 2, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
Well, the good thing is that the Pypes Off Road H is cheap. If it's too loud for you, you're not out a mint. Actually, I would say try it out. If it's too loud, pick up a set of Pypes high flow cats and have an exhaust shop weld them in. You'd still be spending less than the MRT catted H when all was said and done.

I loved the sound of the off road H with Violators, and ran it for a year. I'm just really trying not to get pulled over right now. Not that I ever did get pulled over. Just being a little paranoid, I guess.

Precisely what I was going to do. My O/R H comes in today. If it is too loud (which I doubt) I will take it to the muffler shop as you said. Only thing I worry about with leaving the O/R on full time is the inspection.

UrbanRedneck · Jul 2, 2008

red05bullitgt said:
UrbanRedneck, If you had bothered to read over post#25, on page. 1 of this thread. You would've noticed, that I previously answered your question, however I'll re-post it again anyway.

I did read that and every other post. The impression I got from your post is that you were answering me about the performance difference between no cats and high flow cats, not the actuall gain that either setup would yeild versus the STOCK H pipe.

And I am fully aware of the laws regarding vehicle warranty, but I am also a technician (not Ford), and know full well from things I've seen and heard that they don't always follow the laws. If you don't know any better, they can easily deny warranty work and that's that. But if you DO no the laws, you are right, they have to prove that the modified part caused the malfunction. BUT, if they want to deny the claim, it can become a big headache to fight it to the point of winning, and they can still easily make it a PITA for you before giving in...

Redfire, I wish there was some way to judge car loudness haha. I wish I could have heard your car in person to better judge. I know I like my cars to be pretty loud, but I don't want it to be annoying loud either. My brother has an LS1 Camaro with long tube headers, a huge off-road Y-pipe, and an SLP Loudmouth 2 catback (which is basically one bullet muffler before it splits back into two tailpipes). His car is LOUD, louder than I'd want my car to be. But he also has 65 more cubic inches and about 130 more horsepower than me to.

I'd be happy with it a good bit louder than mine, but not as loud as his. I still want to be able to talk and hear the radio. When I first start my car in the garage in the morning, it is plenty loud. But it sure quiets up a lot once it's warm. My goal is why I considered high flow cats, because I figure it's a step in between, but I don't want to wind up dissapointed either. The reason I haven't relaly considered the MRT H pipe is because it's $500. I found a Bsssanni X for a little over $200 used but now it is no longer available, and like I said, I don't know how an X pipe will sound on this car. I know they make more power than H pipes, but I don't want it to sound like a BMW either.

I suppose I could try out the pypes offroad H and go from there since it is so cheap. But lately I've read a lot of horror stories about it's fitment too, so I don't know what the hell I want to do.

My Dodge pickup that I had before this car was perfect. It had stock exhaust to the cat, then a single flowmaster 10 series dumped right by the axle. It was just the right loudness and sounded wicked mean. Totally different vehicle, engine, and exhaust system though....

UrbanRedneck · Jul 2, 2008

This is the only clip I can find of an X pipe with violators: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1YpyuyRlmw

It actually doesn't sound as raspy or tinny as I expected, it sounds pretty good. hmmm

edit: I found once more vid of the same car and I think I really like the tone. Too bad I just found out the X pipe I was interested in is sold lol.

blbrchnk · Jul 2, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I suppose I could try out the pypes offroad H and go from there since it is so cheap. But lately I've read a lot of horror stories about it's fitment too, so I don't know what the hell I want to do.

My O/R H came in from Brenspeed today and I just wanted to know if they have always shipped with the 2 inch long pieces that taper inward that go on the manifold end? There was a paper on the outside of the box from them stating that if these aren't used, you may experience leaking. I was wondering if this was in response to the leaking problems that we have been hearing or if it has always come with them?

NastyStang113 · Jul 2, 2008

What do you guys think about running a set of Magnflow Magnapacks as a mid muffler system with a O/R H Pipe?

UrbanRedneck · Jul 2, 2008

I would imagine that any muffler that you can fit into a mid-muffler arrangement would sound pretty cool...

Well now I'm even more confused, but I'm thinking that if I don't see another used high-flow-catted pipe, I'm gonna scratch taht idea. I don't want to pay $400+ for a mid pipe..

In that event, I will try an offroad pipe I guess. I will have to decide between an H or X. Is the Pypes offroad X good quality? Maybe I'll try either it or the pypes H and if it fits like crap, I'll return it. If it's too loud, I'll decide from there.

The funny thing is, I keep talking about not wanting it too loud, but I bet if I threw an offroad pipe on it I'd probably love it... I'm sure it wouldn't bve any louder than my brother's old 99 was, and I LOVED that car. I'm only 4 years older than I was when he had that, so I'm sure I'm not that much more mature hahahah. I'm not really worried about getting pulled over. I've driven my Dart all over with open headers with no issues, and the exhaust it has now will wake the dead (3 inch flowmaster 40s with side exit pipes) and never gets any unwanted attention. So maybe an offroad pipe si right for me...

Dark: Did you have any trouble hearing your radio or talking on the phone in your car?

red05bullitgt · Jul 2, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I did read that and every other post. The impression I got from your post is that you were answering me about the performance difference between no cats and high flow cats, not the actuall gain that either setup would yeild versus the STOCK H pipe.

And I am fully aware of the laws regarding vehicle warranty, but I am also a technician (not Ford), and know full well from things I've seen and heard that they don't always follow the laws. If you don't know any better, they can easily deny warranty work and that's that. But if you DO no the laws, you are right, they have to prove that the modified part caused the malfunction. BUT, if they want to deny the claim, it can become a big headache to fight it to the point of winning, and they can still easily make it a PITA for you before giving in...

Well apparantly, you are NOT fully aware of the laws regarding vehicle warranty. Otherwise you wouldn't had posted the same question, 3 different times.

UrbanRedneck said:
Lastly, has anyone had warranty work on their cars with an off-road or high flow midpipe? Did the dealer care?

UrbanRedneck said:
And what about the warranty question, has anyone had work done on their car with an aftermarket midpipe?

UrbanRedneck said:
Oh yeah and still noone has answered as to wether or not they've had their car serviced under warranty with an aftermarket mid pipe.

As I mentioned before, unless the aftermarket part is directly responsible for causing the warranted parts in question to fail, Ford cannot refuse to service your car under a warranty claim. That would be just like saying that Ford refused to fix your shaker 500 under warranty, just because you have an aftermarket mid-pipe.

The point, is an aftermarket mid-pipe has absolutely nothing to do, nor is related to a shaker 500 failing to operate properly.

And just for the record, I've had my car serviced plenty of times under warranty, and was never questioned once about my Steeda cold air intake sitting in the engine bay. So there you have it, in a nutshell.

As for a performance difference between the stock mid-pipe, and high-flow cats. Well once again there's very little difference, as the stock exhaust flows much more efficiently, and is far less restrictive compared to the previous SN-95 models.

As I also mentioned before, unless your looking for a sound improvement. There's very little to be gained performance wise, if even anything at all !

UrbanRedneck · Jul 2, 2008

I asked that question 3 times because nobody answered it untill you just now.

And I am aware of the laws. ANyone can search for the magnusson moss act (I may have spelled that wrong) and they are explained quite well. The fact of the matter is, that the laws don't always matter. It is the dealership taht efuses warranty work, not Ford. Ford never sees the car, they only see the defective part (a zone rep goes to the dealers to pay warranty claims, and sometimes needs to see the parts replaced if the claim is suspicious). The dealer can flat out say "we won't fix your car" or claim that the warranty is "void". This doesn't mean it is, but they still refuse to fix the car. Wether or not they will do this depends on the dealer, if the service manager is an ass, etc. Now, due to the law, in the event that this happened, you can fight it, because of what we both stated regarding the fact that the aftermarket comonent has to effect the malfunctioning system, but fighting it could require you to contact the zone rep or go higher up the chain with Ford. Like I said, this is because the people in that particular dealer's service department decided to be dicks and refuse the warranty claim. And I have seen dealers pull some rediculous stories out of their asses to avoid warranty claims, I have personal experience with this from Volkswagen. So, as I am aware taht I cannot LLEGALLY have any issue from an aftermarket part, I would consider it an inconvienience if I had to fight a service department. So I gues I should have asked "who has had the dealer fix the car without the service manager/write saying a word about aftermarket parts?". I know it is just a matter of having a cool service department that knows the laws and doesn't want to try and scam people, but let's face it, car dealerships aren't the most honest people out there.

I know the service department at my local dealer is not the most laid back out there. But I know of other dealers, further away, where they won't care the slightest bit what is done to your car. With business the way it is right now, I doubt any of them will refuse work, even warranty work (they get paid less for warranty work than customer pay work), but you never know. Now if a dealer was to tell me they wouldn't fix it, it isn't like they tell Ford to void your warranty, they jjust say no. I could still go to another dealer and give it a shot. Or, I could even fix it myself at my shop and bill Ford's warranty department, but that is a bigget PITA than it's worth.

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