November 2005 Mustang Sales Decrease

Hadda70Mach1 · Dec 1, 2005

I just read that Mustang sales were 11,000 in November 2005 versus 12,800 in November 2004 - a 14% decline. This is, I keep hearing, a hot car? What gives?

I'm pulling for Ford and all the "domestic" brands, but Ford doesn't seem to be making the type of Mustang that is most in demand. Like many people, I am anxious to see a Mustang GT or two on my local dealer's lot. My dealer hasn't had a GT that wasn't sold for months, but the V6's just keep coming.

351CJ · Dec 1, 2005

Thanks for starting this thread. After I posted about slowing Mustang sales for the past few months a lot of people here on Stangnet are giving me crap.

Actual sales #s are:
Nov 05 - 11,030
Nov 04 - 12,816
Nov 03 - 11,456

If I were a Ford exec, I'd be real concerned since Nov 05 sales were below the old Mustang back in 2003. In addition, this is now 5 straight months of mediocre Mustang sales where sales have been below production.

So what's the problem?

Dealer markups are killing Mustang sales, just like the dealers killed the 2 seat T-Bird with their insane markups.

Ford is building too many V6s.
Ford used historical #s to determine the V6 - GT build %, but forgot that they intentionally cut back rental & fleet sales which accounted for a large % of the SN95 V6 sales.

Ford's stupid allocation that is sending too many Mustangs to their big dealers (who are the worst offenders with markups) and they aren't sending enough GTs to northern states. I've seen posts from people in TX, FL, NC who say dealers have many GTs on their lots where up where I am there are virtually no GTs on dealer lots.

05BlackV6 · Dec 1, 2005

Well. I can see why the sales would drop. Who wants to buy a mustang for the winter? They'll go back up in the spring. (Hopefully)

And once you flood the market with something it looses alot and is no longer special. I think the new Mustang is a good enough quality car that should have to be ordered and produced in limited numbers.

Adrenal · Dec 1, 2005

I agree with 05BlackV6, plus folks are saving for Christmas presents now.

betterdan · Dec 1, 2005

05BlackV6 said:
Well. I can see why the sales would drop. Who wants to buy a mustang for the winter?

Umm they are comparing winter prices across 3 years and sales have continued to drop every year. Your idea would make sense if you were comparing a summer month to a winter month but this is not the case here.

Adrenal said:
plus folks are saving for Christmas presents now.

So folks weren't saving for Christmas presents at this same time back in 2003 and 2004?

Hadda70Mach1 · Dec 1, 2005

Betterdan is right

Betterdan is right, the holidays - and winter - come at the same time each year. They do not explain the sales decline when you are comparing November this year to November last year.

D.Hearne · Dec 2, 2005

At the dealer I bought mine from yesterday ( ordered it and waited almost exactly 6 months ) They've got three GT's, and two V6 cars. The 3 GT's are:2 converts, one is a new 06, the other a used 05. Both are loaded with options and automatics. The other GT is a new 06, Tungsten Gray, automatic. These 3 have been sitting there for two months. ( I also pointed that out to the sales manager ) One V6 car is a coupe, the other a 'vert and they've been around a couple months as well. If and when they DO get manual GT's in, they're only on the lot less than a week. Mine stayed overnight, parked in the showroom, next to the my salesman's office I was told that the GT-manual trans cars are only allocated for 16% of production, I wonder why? The 5 speed auto is built in France If it weren't for that fact, I'd have seriously considered one, but it being a new design and built by a bunch of whiney Frenchmen, gave it a double whammy.crapola In addition, it's a $995 option, plus I've also got a freind who's a die hard Ford guy, stock car racer, engine builder and happens to work in a trans shop who's told me that they've already worked on a few of the 5 speed autos kept me away from the auto's. Some one in management needs to procure more Tremecs to increase the manual car production. All in all, sounds like someone at Ford made a nice deal with the French, that's ended up costing them sales.

351CJ · Dec 2, 2005

Adrenal said:
I agree with 05BlackV6, plus folks are saving for Christmas presents now.

I hate to blow your theory, but November is normally a good month for car sales and December is normally a very good sales month as many people get a new vehicle for xmas.

And as betterdan already said, we are comparing the same month 3 years in a row. So any seasonal effects should be the same for all 3 years.

To shed further light on how 05 / 06 sales are not what they should be, Ford will sell about 163,000 Mustangs in calander year 2005 (US sales).

While 163K is not a bad sales #, the old SN95 Mustang sold better when it came out:
1999 - 166,915
2000 - 173,676
2001 - 169,198

2000 was the year of the stock market crash and in 2001 we had a pretty good recession, so economic conditions are better in 2005 than back in 2000 & 2001.

Finally, regarding the overall weak US auto industry sales for November 05, Ford, GM & Chrysler all are saying this is hangover from the employee pricing promotions during the summer (The Ford press release says this).

But the Mustang was NOT eligible for employee pricing, so November sales should not be affected by this.

srothfuss · Dec 2, 2005

Guy's what if the ford dealers have gotten a bad reputation about the Mustang (lack of GT's and long wait times) This would hold many people away from buying a new car now. I know I am still waiting!

Also, Ford is doing what DCX did with the Pacifica when it was first intorduced... They only have the top of the line GT's (Convertible versions) which is the most expensive model for the time being and this is also going to have a negative effect on their sales.

The marketing for the car is all but disappeared in my area, they are hard to find and the dealers don't want to sell them... This was expected.

martimus · Dec 2, 2005

351CJ said:
I hate to blow your theory, but November is normally a good month for car sales and December is normally a very good sales month as many people get a new vehicle for xmas.

And as betterdan already said, we are comparing the same month 3 years in a row. So any seasonal effects should be the same for all 3 years.

Hate to burst your bubble dude but you're trying to find a simple answer to a complex problem. Sales do seem to be down right now but its not necessarily for the reasons you suspect.

Contrary to the propoganda (READ: LIES) fed to us by our Federal Government our economy is in a world of hurt. Parts of the SouthEast US are in shambles thanks to Katrina and Wilma. Unemployment is high throughout much of the nation. Consumer debt is sky-rocketing. The nation is divided over the situation in Iraq. Fuel costs are high due to supply, demand, and GREED. crapola

Add to this the fact that the US National debt now exceeds 8 TRILLION dollars (1 Trillion dollars were added to the debt in the last two years alone). We have a trade deficit somewhere in the neighborhood of 58 BILLION dollars. The world has changed around us. We're now part of a world economy (which is whats helped us avoid finding ourselves in a much more significant economic downturn).

Needless to say financial pressures on our economy are quite high. And as if this weren't enough the "geniuses" in Detroit are now trying to recover from their earlier boondoggle of offering cars at "Employee Pricing". The fallout of which is still being felt (try selling a used car nowadays!).

So yea if you were to compare raw numbers its valid to observe that November numbers are lower. Unfortunately its not really a very valid comparison since our economy is tanked. What we need is for our "elected" representatives in DC to open their eyes, pull their hands out of big businesses pockets, and realize that we have a problem needing to be addressed. We need reforms at the core of our government to allow us to pay down our debt (before the other nations decide we're no longer a good investment), reduce our trade deficit, reduce our personal debt while increasing savings, and help us to claw our way out of this quagmire before we sink into "Third World Nation" status.

In a better economy car sales WILL improve!! Will it save GM and/or Ford? Only time will tell...

D.Hearne · Dec 2, 2005

The economy is tanked? What rock are you hiding under? Now that things are settling down from the Hurricanes, fuel is back down to about what it was before all this started. Unemployment? Where? If you don't have a job, it's simply because you don't want one. Look in ANY newspaper in the jobs section and there's PAGES of jobs offered EVERYDAY. Yea, we've got a problem with the national debt and a trade deficit, but that's also supposedly been a problem for the last 3-4 DECADES. Nothing's happened yet. Supposedly China holds a large chunk of US bonds that cover the debt, but if they did call them in, they'd go down with the ship too. Where would they sell their goods then?

tjredgt2000 · Dec 2, 2005

"but Ford doesn't seem to be making the type of Mustang that is most in demand."

I wonder if CAFE standards are playing a role in the product mix? If so, increased sales of the Fusion triplets should help.

Alec · Dec 2, 2005

Gas prices are still too high. When a non gear-head goes car shopping they look at gas mileage, and the mustang just can't compete with the Japanese stuff.

In the grad scheme of things there are not a whole lot of people who look at horsepower/torque when buying a car.
Walk around your office or wherever and ask. People don't know what the hell a V8 is They look at the bottom line gas, price, insurance etc.. People are on a waiting list for those hybrids for a reason.

What about next Hurricane season? $5.00 a gallon.
Yes the economy looks better, but look how it tanked
Didn't Ford nearly kill the Mustang?

tjredgt2000 · Dec 2, 2005

Gas in most of the U.S. is under $2 a gallon so it isn't the price of gas that is affecting sales. There might be some "hangover" effect from the high gas prices though as folks may not feel comfortable that prices will remain this low - look at SUV sales. The positive side of Mustang sales in 2005 is that there are no incentives whereas in past years there were always incentives so the profit per unit is better than in the past. The last time Ford almost killed the Mustang was in the late '80's. That won't happen again, particularly since it is now built in a flexible manufacturing plant.

351CJ · Dec 2, 2005

martimus said:
Hate to burst your bubble dude but you're trying to find a simple answer to a complex problem. Sales do seem to be down right now but its not necessarily for the reasons you suspect.

Contrary to the propoganda (READ: LIES) fed to us by our Federal Government our economy is in a world of hurt. Parts of the SouthEast US are in shambles thanks to Katrina and Wilma. Unemployment is high throughout much of the nation. Consumer debt is sky-rocketing. The nation is divided over the situation in Iraq. Fuel costs are high due to supply, demand, and GREED. crapola

Add to this the fact that the US National debt now exceeds 8 TRILLION dollars (1 Trillion dollars were added to the debt in the last two years alone). We have a trade deficit somewhere in the neighborhood of 58 BILLION dollars. The world has changed around us. We're now part of a world economy (which is whats helped us avoid finding ourselves in a much more significant economic downturn).

Needless to say financial pressures on our economy are quite high. And as if this weren't enough the "geniuses" in Detroit are now trying to recover from their earlier boondoggle of offering cars at "Employee Pricing". The fallout of which is still being felt (try selling a used car nowadays!).

So yea if you were to compare raw numbers its valid to observe that November numbers are lower. Unfortunately its not really a very valid comparison since our economy is tanked. What we need is for our "elected" representatives in DC to open their eyes, pull their hands out of big businesses pockets, and realize that we have a problem needing to be addressed. We need reforms at the core of our government to allow us to pay down our debt (before the other nations decide we're no longer a good investment), reduce our trade deficit, reduce our personal debt while increasing savings, and help us to claw our way out of this quagmire before we sink into "Third World Nation" status.

In a better economy car sales WILL improve!! Will it save GM and/or Ford? Only time will tell...

Well, I'll happily burst your bubble, dude.

Sales @ Toyota and most of the other "import" brands are up. So how could your bad economy theory be correct if import sales are up, including the premium brands and only Ford & GM are down? My business is having a record sales year in 2005, so somebody out there has money to spend.

I will agree with you that the national debt is a big problem that will bite us in the ass in about 5 years. But right now it is having a positive effect on the economy. For the past few years the US economy has been going great thanks to the credit card mentality - spend now worry about it later.

351CJ · Dec 2, 2005

srothfuss said:
Guy's what if the ford dealers have gotten a bad reputation about the Mustang (lack of GT's and long wait times) This would hold many people away from buying a new car now. I know I am still waiting!

Also, Ford is doing what DCX did with the Pacifica when it was first intorduced... They only have the top of the line GT's (Convertible versions) which is the most expensive model for the time being and this is also going to have a negative effect on their sales.

The marketing for the car is all but disappeared in my area, they are hard to find and the dealers don't want to sell them... This was expected.

You have a good point, Ford is building far too many Convertibles - probably to try to make more profit on the Mustang. Around me the dealer lots are chock full of loaded V6 Verts, most of them with $30K stickers.

There are a few GT Verts on the lots, but GT coupes are very hard to find.

Dyoct · Dec 2, 2005

tjredgt2000 said:
The positive side of Mustang sales in 2005 is that there are no incentives whereas in past years there were always incentives so the profit per unit is better than in the past.

Bingo! No incentives until just recently or if you were a Katrina survivor.

martimus · Dec 2, 2005

D.Hearne said:
The economy is tanked? What rock are you hiding under? Now that things are settling down from the Hurricanes, fuel is back down to about what it was before all this started. Unemployment? Where? If you don't have a job, it's simply because you don't want one. Look in ANY newspaper in the jobs section and there's PAGES of jobs offered EVERYDAY. Yea, we've got a problem with the national debt and a trade deficit, but that's also supposedly been a problem for the last 3-4 DECADES. Nothing's happened yet. Supposedly China holds a large chunk of US bonds that cover the debt, but if they did call them in, they'd go down with the ship too. Where would they sell their goods then?

Open your eyes dude... and stop believing the rhetoric being fed to you! Our economy is barely holding ground and is mostly doing so because, as you mention, other nations are keeping us afloat. If, on the other hand, we continue spending at the current pace even China won't be able to finance us. Ya know... you can only balance an elephant on a 2x4 for a short while before the 2x4 breaks.

Lots of jobs???? What exactly have you been smoking... and how do I get some!! Yea there are lots of jobs... many where the requisite phrase to learn is "You want fries with that". This used to be the greatest manufacturing nation on the planet. Unfortunately manufacturing jobs are disappearing quicker than they're created. Why? Cuz nations like China can provide the labor at pennies on the dollar.

This nation used to be a technological giant amongst nations. Now an ever increasing percentage of those jobs go to people in India and the far east. So whats left? Working the counter at the Quickie Mart or selling Grand Slam breakfasts at Denny's???

The bottom line is that Mustang sales are decreasing as are Ford sales as are GM sales as are Chrysler sales as are many of the Japanese car manufacturers. "Employee Pricing" may have cleared out the car manufacturers holding lots but it did them no favors. They sold the cars for less than it was costing them to manufacture them... and drove used car prices into the dirt. It'll take several years to recover, if they recover.

srothfuss · Dec 2, 2005

martimus said:
Our economy is barely holding ground...if they recover.

I am young @ 26 so I don't have the wisdom that comes with age. But all I see is doom and gloom for the Americas. There might be jobs out there, but they are replacing the good paying jobs with lower wage, worse benifit service jobs. America has been crumbling since the Free Trade agreement was signed. It's the problem with being top dog. The only direction to go is down. While the other countries can only go up!

The new mustang is awesome, but I am waiting until the buzz wears off so I don't have to deal with a long wait (for the exact car I want) or the dealer trying to mark up the price.

66Satellite · Dec 2, 2005

351CJ said:
Thanks for starting this thread. After I posted about slowing Mustang sales for the past few months a lot of people here on Stangnet are giving me crap.

Actual sales #s are:
Nov 05 - 11,030
Nov 04 - 12,816
Nov 03 - 11,456

If I were a Ford exec, I'd be real concerned since Nov 05 sales were below the old Mustang back in 2003. In addition, this is now 5 straight months of mediocre Mustang sales where sales have been below production.

So what's the problem?

Dealer markups are killing Mustang sales, just like the dealers killed the 2 seat T-Bird with their insane markups.

Ford is building too many V6s.
Ford used historical #s to determine the V6 - GT build %, but forgot that they intentionally cut back rental & fleet sales which accounted for a large % of the SN95 V6 sales.

Ford's stupid allocation that is sending too many Mustangs to their big dealers (who are the worst offenders with markups) and they aren't sending enough GTs to northern states. I've seen posts from people in TX, FL, NC who say dealers have many GTs on their lots where up where I am there are virtually no GTs on dealer lots.

Agree.

Let's say I e-mailed all my local dealers and told them I wanted a 5 speed GT (vert or coupe) and refused to pay a penny over MSRP. How easily and soon could I get a car?

November 2005 Mustang Sales Decrease

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