Our Oil Situation

OK. I give up. Let's put cheap oil ahead of the environment. Surely you don't believe all oil companies are really naturalists.
Can't we at least try to respect nature?

How would drilling here make gas any cheaper? Wouldn't oil just go for market value? Why make X amount selling to A when you can make more selling to B. Greed is greed whether it's American or foreign. They ship our jobs overseas to make a bigger profit, why not our oil?

I was originally thinking that drilling here would help but I'm just not sure just how much it would help. Maybe it would though, I don't know.

If it did help I would say do it.

stanmckinney said:

OK. I give up. Let's put cheap oil ahead of the environment. Surely you don't believe all oil companies are really naturalists.
Can't we at least try to respect nature?

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I really dont think anyone on either side of this issue has a complete lack of respect for nature and want to destroy the planet. It is important though to keep in mind that nature doesnt have intrinsic value of its own. To propose that a thing has value means that it has to be valuable to someone. So we dont just assume that nature is valuable. We first ask the question of nature's value and then ask why is it valuable. My answer is that yes nature is valuable to man and there are quite a few reasons why. None of them are beauty or wildlife. Nature''s first value to man is habitat. We have to live somewhere. The other value is how we can use its resources to increase our standard of living and also the number of years we live. What can we produce with what the earth provides? The environmentalists assume that nature's value is intrinsic and treat mankind as if he were a plague upon the earth simply using up its resources without considering the cost. Well who is it costing what? We can all live without polar bears. I dont think drilling and exploration is the threat to wildlife that the left would have us believe but the point is they place the lives of sea urchins and polar bears and spotted owls above the comfort and prosperity of mankind and quite frankly I think that is EVIL.

If you look at history, one could make an argument that man is a plague.
I do believe that nature's beauty is important and that wildlife is important. I would miss the polar bears. Who says that in God's eyes we are more important?
There is more to a well-lived life than just meeting our needs. That's why poetry, great literature, art and, yes, nature and wildlife are important.
I also find the Mustang, old and new, and other cars, to be things of beauty.
I guess we will have to just disagree about some things.

As far as drilling in Alaska goes (comments about polar bears), there is only about 100 days or so worth of oil in that area. That's the hang-up with that area. It's hard to jusitfy such a potential environmental disaster for just 3-4 months worth of cheaper gas prices. If people want to see changes in gas prices, we have to reduce the demand. I haven't even started my car in 6 weeks. I'm able to walk or bike most places since I live downtown.

My advice: Buy a real mustang. When gas runs out, you'll be the one laughing.

Like I said, it's not the price of oil, it's the speed of the climb.
All we need to do, short term, is slow it down so the world can adjust.

AP1995V6 said:

As far as drilling in Alaska goes (comments about polar bears), there is only about 100 days or so worth of oil in that area. That's the hang-up with that area. It's hard to jusitfy such a potential environmental disaster for just 3-4 months worth of cheaper gas prices. If people want to see changes in gas prices, we have to reduce the demand. I haven't even started my car in 6 weeks. I'm able to walk or bike most places since I live downtown.

My advice: Buy a real mustang. When gas runs out, you'll be the one laughing.

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Until now i was a democrat. Fuel prices have forced everyone to take a pay cut, because fuel prices have pushed inflation out of control. how do you know drilling would harm polar bears? You would have fought the Alaska Pipeline. The animals love the heat from the pipe line.

enyawix said:

Until now i was a democrat. Fuel prices have forced everyone to take a pay cut, because fuel prices have pushed inflation out of control. how do you know drilling would harm polar bears? You would have fought the Alaska Pipeline. The animals love the heat from the pipe line.

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I guess I would have to answer your question with another question. How do you know it wouldn't harm the polar bears?

I wasn't alive when the pipeline was built.

We just need to get off oil period. The earth doesn't have an unlimit supply of it. It's going to eventually run out someday anyway. Then what? I hate the high gas prices as much as anyone, but atleast the high prices are fueling the efforts to find another source of energy that doesn't involve green house gases or foreign dependency or non-renewable resources. In my opinion, hybrids and flex fuel cars aren't the long term answer. I'm interested to see how the hydrogen cars do.

AP1995V6 said:

As far as drilling in Alaska goes (comments about polar bears), there is only about 100 days or so worth of oil in that area.

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Sorry, thats just incorrect. In 2004, we had discovered enough oil in the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge to fully supply the United States for over 18 months. That means no importing, no other domestic oil production. We are discovering more every day. The current known supply can produce 10% of our demand for more than 20 years. That means

If there was only a 100 day supply, oil companies wouldn't be spending all the money lobbying to get permission to drill.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do. I don't believe it would have a huge impact on gas prices. As I keep saying along with a few others, we need to curb demand to have a real effect.

AP1995V6 said:

I guess I would have to answer your question with another question. How do you know it wouldn't harm the polar bears?

I wasn't alive when the pipeline was built.

We just need to get off oil period. The earth doesn't have an unlimit supply of it. It's going to eventually run out someday anyway. Then what? I hate the high gas prices as much as anyone, but atleast the high prices are fueling the efforts to find another source of energy that doesn't involve green house gases or foreign dependency or non-renewable resources. In my opinion, hybrids and flex fuel cars aren't the long term answer. I'm interested to see how the hydrogen cars do.

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Unfortunately the cheapest (in terms of dollars and energy expended to produce) source of hydrogen is natural gas (methane) which is also in relatively short supply and hence is rising in price. I think there needs to be a big push for nuclear and more improvements in electric technologies. For nuclear to go ahead (quickly), governments are going to have to limit the unending game of political correctness and squash NIMBYism (Not In My Back Yard). These plants have to be built and soon and governments are just going to have to put collective rights ahead of individual rights. Otherwise, our economies are going to slowly grind to a halt.

klaw said:

Unfortunately the cheapest (in terms of dollars and energy expended to produce) source of hydrogen is natural gas (methane) which is also in relatively short supply and hence is rising in price. I think there needs to be a big push for nuclear and more improvements in electric technologies. For nuclear to go ahead (quickly), governments are going to have to limit the unending game of political correctness and squash NIMBYism (Not In My Back Yard). These plants have to be built and soon and governments are just going to have to put collective rights ahead of individual rights. Otherwise, our economies are going to slowly grind to a halt.

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hydrogen from methane is stupid because, methane can do what you are trying to get hydrogen to do.

using soler and or geothermal electrolysis hydrogen from water would be smart.

good luck making that water vapor exhaust smell like VP!

To anyone saying we are harming the environment from greenhouse gasses you really need to go back to science class and take a look at the history of climate change. We are only 10,000yrs or so out of the last ice age period, its going to get a lot hotter here before its set to get cooler. Everything happens in cycle and given that there is still a vast amount of ice covering the poles and mountain tops we aren't that far off schedule if we are off at all. At one time there is proof the north pole was comprised of freshwater lakes. So we are not doing as much harm as people think. Its all happening within nature, its a cycle, theirs no stopping it. But go ahead and waste more money doing that.

As for oil running out. Doesn't oil and other natural fuels(natural gas, coal, etc) come from the breakdown of bio matter? Someone correct me if Im wrong but things die every day. I don't know the rates at which this happens though. Im sure we will run out of oil one day, its bound to happen... IF the human species doesn't die off first.(theres that history thing again)

As for alternative fuels, it sucks that e85 can't be made efficiently. IMHO its the most promising fuel that could keep both sides of the fence happy. Its great as a performance fuel(assuming theres no hot spots in the combustion chamber) and it can run you're every day car. The same fuel can do both, its great. Biodiesel is another good thing to happen.

As far as my take on plugin cars, they are a bandade where you need stitches. The major downfall of them is range. However(i don't know much about this so something is bound to be wrong) I have an idea that might help. You usually use a motor to turn a wheel(its just easier this way) and in an electric motor the drive shaft runs completely through the motor and usually is capped off or has a fan attached to it on the back side. What if you were to attach a generator to this unused side to try and power the motor, thus creating a motor that needs a battery to start it but can then generate enough power to drive its self. Now I don't know anything about generators but I think it may be a start if you could generate enough power. Unlimited range would make electric cars useful to just about everyone.

I don't know who I will vote for but something has to happen, not just to gas but to everything. I really don't think oil companies operate on supply and demand, thats impossible because they report a shortage but exxon posts a $44b profit for the last 3 years. Thats BS, but a business is a business.

just my $.02

jawbologna said:

To anyone saying we are harming the environment from greenhouse gasses you really need to go back to science class and take a look at the history of climate change. We are only 10,000yrs or so out of the last ice age period, its going to get a lot hotter here before its set to get cooler.

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great ~
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jawbologna said:

As for oil running out. Doesn't oil and other natural fuels(natural gas, coal, etc) come from the breakdown of bio matter? Someone correct me if Im wrong but things die every day. I don't know the rates at which this happens though. Im sure we will run out of oil one day, its bound to happen... IF the human species doesn't die off first.(theres that history thing again)

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Very valid and often overlooked point. Oil is actually a renewable resource. From science's general understanding (which may be or may not be 100% correct), we are consuming MUCH faster than it is being reproduced, and is in essence a finite resource. Say we ran out of oil tomorrow and switched to a different fuel. Eventually in thousands of years, oil would become very plentiful again.