Outnumbered By Idiots

[CarMichael Angelo]

Now I've got a tendency to think that your posts are directed at me, which in this case I would be lead to believe I'm correct.

That's not the SOLE benefit. It's one of many. And let's not get carried away with the self-learning tool. It's not idiot proof in the sense that you plug it in and away you go without a care in the world clicking off single digit passes. It's idiot proof in the sense that it will try its best to keep you from imploding upon loading up your fanciest "I don't know what I'm doing tune". And you certainly don't have to pay someone to do it for you. The entire appeal is the ability to teach myself without blowing someone else's car up in the process.
I'm not familiar with the self-diagnosis features, maybe that's something the MS has going for it over the Holley systems and older Ms system I've used.

The "drive it in the mountains" and "they used it for x years before EFI" lines of reasoning are both flawed in my opinion.

We used to have covered wagons as well for WAY more years than that and I don't pass many of them on the highway these days....
Better, more efficient technology came along and replaced it.

You can drive a carb vehicle into the mountains all the same, you'll notice some changes, sure but ask yourself just what in the hell you're doing driving so far up the mountain to begin with


Carbs have their place. Nostalgia Vehicles, class specified race cars, idiots who can't troubleshoot their Factory EFI system (which if you've been on the forum long I'm sure you've seen numerous times), and guys who just like carbs. People tend to fall into one of those categories. Nothing wrong with having a personal preference.
But it's crazy to me to say that with all the advancement in EFI, all of the fuel control and injector timing capability we have and the ability to data log umpteen parameters at once and dial in every area along the RPM band that anyone would say a carb is still a contender, I just disagree.

It's got nothing to do with being a self-proclaimed "car guy". Any real car guy would still have a steam engine.



I will absolutely agree that carb technology hasn't been stagnant since 1985 by any means. They release new carbs all the time and there are PLENTY of fast carb cars that make more power than I'll ever be able to.
Guess it's a preference like I said above, I've got zero interest in old school carb tuning for the sake of feeling more accomplished.


It was interesting how much work that seemingly knowledgable guy in the second video put into the carb just to show up and have the tuner tell him it was entirely **** up.

This all stems from a post from a guy who couldn't figure out his EFI system. It turned out to be a rotted vacuum line for anyone interested.

Yeah.....I thought you might think that....

It wasn't really. I got nothing but respect for you. I think that you've proven yourself to be far above the norm when fitting my label as "car guy."

I'm always at my most vicious in the morning,....especially when somebody throws me a carb vs efi bone to chew on.

I'm clearly not a "carbs rule" cheerleader,...I have EFI on the Monster for Christ's sake.....It just chaps my ass when somebody who has never turned an idle air screw on a Holley ( Again,...not aimed at you,......unless the shoe fits) decides to chime in as how inferior they are.

 

[mikestang63]

Yeah.....I thought you might think that....

It wasn't really. I got nothing but respect for you. I think that you've proven yourself to be far above the norm when fitting my label as "car guy."

I'm always at my most vicious in the morning,....especially when somebody throws me a carb vs efi bone to chew on.

I'm clearly not a "carbs rule" cheerleader,...I have EFI on the Monster for Christ's sake.....It just chaps my ass when somebody who has never turned an idle air screw on a Holley ( Again,...not aimed at you,......unless the shoe fits) decides to chime in as how inferior they are.

So who were you referring to if not Tanner?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

This is probably going to rub a few people the wrong way , but it's my opinion so take it how you will.

Education isn't about earning a degree. It's about learning how to use critical thinking skills to educate yourself on how to solve problems.
Think of when people thought the world was flat. "Don't go to the end, else you fall off." So nobody ventured out that way. One guy decided to take the trip and holy sh*t, the world is round after all.

In my experience, people who have high praise for carbs are afraid to venture out to the end of the world. They don't want to learn what all the sensors are for, how the computer uses the sensors, and why you can't do certain things with certain setups. It's seen as a black box of voodoo and it needs to be ripped out and replaced with what's in their comfort zone.

This is why I choose to build my own stuff and sometimes fail at it. I keep learning why the world is round.

Really,.....carburetors equate to the "Earth is flat", and EFI is only for the round Earth thinkers.....

Ok Christopher,......I got ya.

 

[Boosted92LX]

The "drive it in the mountains" and "they used it for x years before EFI" lines of reasoning are both flawed in my opinion.

We used to have covered wagons as well for WAY more years than that and I don't pass many of them on the highway these days....
Better, more efficient technology came along and replaced it.

Flawed? "Carbs are dumb?"

I stated plainly that carbs are outdated. There's no denying it, there are tons of advantages to efi.. But my statement was, they worked great for years before efi came along, not "carbs are better, efi is dumb." I can say I daily drove carbureted cars for years with zero problems. Hardly fair to compare them to covered wagons. Were you around when you could drive a fairly new carbureted car? (Rhetorical, I know you weren't..) Cold starts? Not as great as efi, but nowhere near as bad as the efi fanboys make it out to be. Also, there is a character you get with a carbed vehicle that doesn't exist with efi. The sounds, the responses. I'll admit I am a little nostalgic, and I fully acknowledge carbs are outdated. It's obvious, otherwise they'd still be in production.. I appreciate your favoritism for efi and even your frustration with the "idiots" who argue the point. However, without having grown up with them and driving them in fair condition I think your argument is sadly one sided.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

So who were you referring to if not Tanner?

Anybody else who cares to carry the EFI is good, Carbs are bad banner.

It's what I took away from the Surrounded by idiots argument that was linked from the FB snippets.

 

[hoopty5.0]

Really,.....carburetors equate to the "Earth is flat", and EFI is only for the round Earth thinkers.....

Ok Christopher,......I got ya.

No, just the thought process of SOME of the carb proponents out there.


I'd also like to point out that I grew up working solely on carbureted motors. My first car was my first exposure to EFI.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Flawed? "Carbs are dumb?"

I stated plainly that carbs are outdated. There's no denying it, there are tons of advantages to efi.. But my statement was, they worked great for years before efi came along, not "carbs are better, efi is dumb." I can say I daily drove carbureted cars for years with zero problems. Hardly fair to compare them to covered wagons. Were you around when you could drive a fairly new carbureted car? (Rhetorical, I know you weren't..) Cold starts? Not as great as efi, but nowhere near as bad as the efi fanboys make it out to be. Also, there is a character you get with a carbed vehicle that doesn't exist with efi. The sounds, the responses. I'll admit I am a little nostalgic, and I fully acknowledge carbs are outdated. It's obvious, otherwise they'd still be in production.. I appreciate your favoritism for efi and even your frustration with the "idiots" who argue the point. However, without having grown up with them and driving them in fair condition I think your argument is sadly one sided.

Awww... Allen on another one of his Vietnam flashbacks again....

Calm down buddy,....I got this. This is a small town There's only room for one prick in these parts,......and his name is Madmike Matkosky.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

This is probably going to rub a few people the wrong way , but it's my opinion so take it how you will.

Education isn't about earning a degree. It's about learning how to use critical thinking skills to educate yourself on how to solve problems.
Think of when people thought the world was flat. "Don't go to the end, else you fall off." So nobody ventured out that way. One guy decided to take the trip and holy sh*t, the world is round after all.

In my experience, people who have high praise for carbs are afraid to venture out to the end of the world. They don't want to learn what all the sensors are for, how the computer uses the sensors, and why you can't do certain things with certain setups. It's seen as a black box of voodoo and it needs to be ripped out and replaced with what's in their comfort zone.

This is why I choose to build my own stuff and sometimes fail at it. I keep learning why the world is round.

Wait, the world is round? Ok, sure,and the moon isn't made out of chess too, I suppose? Right,whatever. You round earther.

I just kind of like carburetors. That's all. I can see the sense of learning about fuel injection, I even understand the benefits.

Maybe someday when I upgrade my blue car's drivetrain, I may go that way. For now I'll rebuild the little 2V 2150 carb on it, and I'll get such a kick out of it when it works like it used to.

 

[tannerc91gt]

Yeah.....I thought you might think that....

It wasn't really. I got nothing but respect for you. I think that you've proven yourself to be far above the norm when fitting my label as "car guy."

I'm always at my most vicious in the morning,....especially when somebody throws me a carb vs efi bone to chew on.

I'm clearly not a "carbs rule" cheerleader,...I have EFI on the Monster for Christ's sake.....It just chaps my ass when somebody who has never turned an idle air screw on a Holley ( Again,...not aimed at you,......unless the shoe fits) decides to chime in as how inferior they are.

this was the whole point of this post. I enjoy a good debate.
I've spent time with carbs, doesn't even register compared to the time spent with EFI though. I won't deny that. And there are plenty of guys who can tune a carb exponentially better than I (hopefully that includes all of you). IMO they're inferior. They lack the mechanical ability to do the things that an EFI system is capable of currently. I'm not sure how anyone could argue the other side of that part. But I can understand people defending the existence of carburetors.

"Carbs are dumb" was just me being hardheaded for the sake of being hardheaded.

I just kind of like carburetors. That's all.

This is the answer I was after. It's not arguable. You run a carb because you like carbs. It's what you're familiar and comfortable with and you know you're able to get more performance out of one BASED on where your knowledge is strongest.
I guarantee you can make a carb car run better than I so please don't consider that an insult. This is whole thing is based around the knowledge and experience of the guy behind the screen name.
So in my case "carbs are dumb".

 

[srtthis]

im not going to spend the time to go through this whole thread

but BES or bennett just did back to back tests on motor carb made 2 more hp than the EFI motor.

so they are pretty much the same

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

I've owned and driven both EFI and carb cars and I loved them both for different reasons. I had a 71' Bug with a 2086cc motor and dual double barrel 44mm Webers. It was fun tuning and syncing those things and I wouldn't have it any other way. You guys are overthinking this junk, you don't have to pick a frickin side on this subject like people do with annoying politics.

 

[mikestang63]

Tastes great

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

Tastes great

LESS FILLING!

 

[tannerc91gt]

I've owned and driven both EFI and carb cars and I loved them both for different reasons. I had a 71' Bug with a 2086cc motor and dual double barrel 44mm Webers. It was fun tuning and syncing those things and I wouldn't have it any other way. You guys are overthinking this junk, you don't have to pick a frickin side on this subject like people do with annoying politics.

I won't have this middle of the aisle, why can't we all get along BS in my thread. Pick a side or GTFO!

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

I won't have this middle of the aisle, why can't we all get along BS in my thread. Pick a side or GTFO!

Since Tanner is the "shot caller", this.......

BES or bennett just did back to back tests on motor carb made 2 more hp than the EFI motor.

Carb does make more HP! Carb FTW!! You EFI guys must hate your lawn mowers. Maybe the hoity-toity EFI guys don't have real grass lawns, maybe they park their EFI cars on their synthetic grass lawns and brag about the water they save

 

[srtthis]

haha i dont care if its carbed or EFI... i can tune both doesnt matter to me

 

[Boosted92LX]

EFI is dumb.

 

[Boosted92LX]

Awww... Allen on another one of his Vietnam flashbacks again....

Calm down buddy,....I got this. This is a small town There's only room for one prick in these parts,......and his name is Madmike Matkosky.

Watch out Mike. I spotted Chatlie over there in the bushes. You lay down suppressing fire while rush em!

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Watch out Mike. I spotted Chatlie over there in the bushes. You lay down suppressing fire while rush em!

Can that line chatter grunt! If you'd deploy a little recon,...you'll see that Charlie has us surrounded.

 

[mikestang63]

EFI is dumb.

My injector can beat up your float bowl