Outta ideas!! Overheating and pinging!

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Beef97

Member

Dec 24, 2004

46

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7

Corpus Christi, Texas

Jul 12, 2005

#1

• Jul 12, 2005

• #1

Hey guys, i'll try to make this short. '67 with 289. Just installed new double roller timing chain, new chain cover, new harmonic balancer and thermostat. I flushed the block out, cleaned the radiator, water pump still works, adjusted the initial timing to 11 deg. and total timing to 36 deg. I currently have an accel blueprint electronic distributor with the vacuum advance. Ok, here's the crap! I'm still having probs with the car over heating (its a new 4 row radiator) and driving at cruising speed i can hear the engine pinging. When i'm setting the timing there was no pinging present. My only idea is that maybe under cruise speed the vacuum advance is advancing it more than its supposed to for that RPM. Should i get a new MSD pro billet distributor? I'm using an MSD 6AL box. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Hopefully i didn't leave anything out! Thanks guys!

 

2nd Mustang

Founding Member

Feb 24, 2002

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Southern California

Jul 12, 2005

#2

• Jul 12, 2005

• #2

Sounds like you're on the right path, too much advance.

 

Tim65GT

Active Member

Feb 24, 2004

1,149

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39

West Texas

Jul 12, 2005

#3

• Jul 12, 2005

• #3

I had a similar problem with my Accel 71000 series distributor. When I installed it I had to tune all of the Vacuum advance out. I have a 302 bored .030 over with an Edelbrock 500 cfm Performer Carb and Intake. Everthing else is pretty much stock. It has over 20 in of vacuum at idle. I tried ported and unported vacuum with no luck.

Eventually I gave up and just ran it with out the vacuum canister. Recently the electronic module took a dump and left my son stranded. I used the opportunity to get an MSD. (They are made right here in El Paso) So I installed a ready to run unit. It was expensive, but IMO worth it. I dropped it in with new plug wires and it fired right up first crank. I adjusted it to 15 btdc with the 20 degree mechanical advance stop bushing for a total of 35. I also put the weaker advance springs in to get all of the advance in by 3000 rpm. The Vacuum advance is hooked up and the adjustment is centered, so I don't know how much vac advance it's getting. I want to mess with it some more, but was very impressed with the initial performance.

The price on the Accel was a lot less, but adjusting the mech advance was a pain to get to the bottom of the distributor everytime. And the amount was just a guess until it was all back together and checked with a timing light.

 

Pbum5

Member

Oct 27, 2004

515

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Minneapolis, MN

Jul 13, 2005

#4

• Jul 13, 2005

• #4

did you advance the cam too much by mistake when you replaced the timing chain?

 

ashford

Member

Dec 19, 2003

485

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fargo ND

Jul 13, 2005

#5

• Jul 13, 2005

• #5

sounds like maybee your running a little lean, intake air temp is high, or possibly a cam with too much valve overlap. my falcon with a 289 did this really bad when i changed from a crane 266h10 to an oddball cam i picked out a 255 grind with 108 overlap to try get a little more grunt out of it. it would detonate at 8 degrees initial at part throttle after well warmed up. put a different cam in it and it went away my clevland in my pickup did the same but not as bad and went away when i changed to an aluminum intake.

 

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Beef97

Member

Dec 24, 2004

46

0

7

Corpus Christi, Texas

Jul 13, 2005

#6

• Jul 13, 2005

• #6

Yeah thanks for the ideas.....could the overheating be caused by the advance in timing? I usually thought that was a lack of advance that caused overheating. As for the cam i'm not sure, i installed the gears correctly but i know the cam is an aftermarket cam and have no idea how it was installed before i got it. Is there any way to check? I'm also going to go back and check the hydraulic lifters and make sure the valve adjustment is still ok. Thanks again.....keep the ideas comin!

 

rbohm

Founding Member

Apr 12, 2002

6,698

550

204

tucson,az

Jul 13, 2005

#7

• Jul 13, 2005

• #7

check the radiator hoses especially the lower one. it can and does collapse when it gets soft thus restricting coolant flow. also make sure you have a proper 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

 

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Beef97

Member

Dec 24, 2004

46

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7

Corpus Christi, Texas

Jul 13, 2005

#8

• Jul 13, 2005

• #8

even if the hoses are new they can collapse? How do i check that anyways? I used to have a hose with one of those metal springs inside and i never had any trouble with overheating then....maybe you are on to something!

 

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D.Hearne

New Member

Sep 29, 2000

11,730

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south louisiana

Jul 13, 2005

#9

• Jul 13, 2005

• #9

Two things: Either back off on the timing, or spring for better fuel, i.e: more octane. Running 87, huh?

 

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grego37

New Member

May 12, 2004

576

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Fresno CA

Jul 13, 2005

#10

• Jul 13, 2005

• #10

MSD pro billet is an excellent piece , but you may want to rule out everything else first so you dont waste good money.

Compression ratio?
What octane gas?
re-check valve adjustment.
you used a timing light, correct?
did you disconnect the vac. advance while checking initial timing.
do you know when you're getting full advance?

 

krash kendall

Active Member

Nov 19, 2004

1,258

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36

Aldergrove, B.C. Canada

Jul 13, 2005

#11

• Jul 13, 2005

• #11

D.Hearne said:

Two things: Either back off on the timing, or spring for better fuel, i.e: more octane. Running 87, huh?

Click to expand...

Yup. Run premium, if problem goes away then see if you can get away with midgrade.

 

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a.vannoy

New Member

Apr 13, 2005

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Jul 13, 2005

#12

• Jul 13, 2005

• #12

I have a work truck with a 400 and a C-6, and it would constantly overheat, new 4- core radiator, new water pump, fan, thermostat, timing checked and rechecked, trans oil cooler installed, heads checked for cracks -turned out to be a blockage in the fuel tank. I went to a plastic fuel filter instead of the metal factory type and could see that it was not getting enough gas to keep the filter full of gas.
Flushed both gas tanks , re-installed them. Now the son of a gun wont go over 180 with ac running at full blast. I was so sure the problem was in the cooling system and started replacing parts systematically. Not sure why the blockage in the fuel tank caused it to overheat but it would ping when it overheated causing me to recheck the timing constantly. Not sure if this is your problem but might want to check for this , it would have saved me a few hundred's.

 

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D.Hearne

New Member

Sep 29, 2000

11,730

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south louisiana

Jul 13, 2005

#13

• Jul 13, 2005

• #13

a.vannoy said:

I have a work truck with a 400 and a C-6, and it would constantly overheat, new 4- core radiator, new water pump, fan, thermostat, timing checked and rechecked, trans oil cooler installed, heads checked for cracks -turned out to be a blockage in the fuel tank. I went to a plastic fuel filter instead of the metal factory type and could see that it was not getting enough gas to keep the filter full of gas.
Flushed both gas tanks , re-installed them. Now the son of a gun wont go over 180 with ac running at full blast. I was so sure the problem was in the cooling system and started replacing parts systematically. Not sure why the blockage in the fuel tank caused it to overheat but it would ping when it overheated causing me to recheck the timing constantly. Not sure if this is your problem but might want to check for this , it would have saved me a few hundred's.

Click to expand...

More likely that you cured the problem when you pulled and replaced the head gaskets. Not uncommon to find where some dimwit, installed them backwards, and that's a sure fire way to overheat a 351C. 351M or 400. With em backwards, the coolant cannot get out of the heads back to the radiator.

 

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ForceFed70

That's why they call it "dope"

Founding Member

Dec 6, 1999

4,818

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69

BC Canada

Jul 13, 2005

#14

• Jul 13, 2005

• #14

Either going lean or too much timing.

Don't trust the timing marks on your balancer!! Try backing off initial timing by 5* and see if it helps. This is a quick, easy, and cheap way to test.

If changing the timing doesn't help, then start looking at a possible fuel problem.

 

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a.vannoy

New Member

Apr 13, 2005

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Jul 13, 2005

#15

• Jul 13, 2005

• #15

"More likely that you cured the problem when you pulled and replaced the head gaskets. Not uncommon to find where some dimwit, installed them backwards, and that's a sure fire way to overheat a 351C. 351M or 400. With em backwards, the coolant cannot get out of the heads back to the radiator."

Thats the wierd part even after the heads were removed, checked and replaced
it would still overheat.
Strange as it sounds I am convinced the fuel delivery problem was the culprit, since once the fuel tanks were flushed the problem went away. At 40 mph the truck would start pinging, the temp guage would go beyond 230 and nothing I did would make it drop down, not idling the engine in nuetral, turning on the blast furnace (heater- I am in arizona). I even cut slots - where I could in the radiator support in a attempt to get the radiator more air, removed the plastic grille nothing made a diffence. I even considered buying a electric fan till I read on another post that they have a hard time sucking air thru a four core radiator.

 

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Beef97

Member

Dec 24, 2004

46

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7

Corpus Christi, Texas

Jul 13, 2005

#16

• Jul 13, 2005

• #16

Yeah i had a super-rusted out gas tank that i just replaced, but i wonder if maybe something got into the lines? Sometimes i'll look at the fuel filter and its not even half-way full of gas. I just put a brand new edelbrock mechanical fuel pump on there so i know that is good. Do i have to buy metal lines and bend them myself of do they sell pre-bent lines? Thanks for all the ideas so far!

 

ddonaca351

Active Member

Dec 1, 2002

2,055

1

48

Camas Washington

Jul 14, 2005

#17

• Jul 14, 2005

• #17

- DO YOU HAVE A FAN SHROUD?
- IS THE THERMOSTAT INSTALLED? (pulling it out = overheating)

(dont mean to yell but do you know how many times....)

- is the fan too far behind the shroud? (no draw=no flow)

- spring in the radiator hose (yes even new ones can colapse)

- RETARDED ignition timing causes the motor to run hot (dont trust the dampner marks until you check them)

- 60 water/40 anti-freeze is better for cooling

- try installing a bottle of Redline water wetter (droped my 5.0 temps 15-20 degrees

- do you run underdrive pullies? (take them off)

- are the headgaskets in bas-ackwards?

- is your heater core hooked up? (bypassing it can cause the coolant to loop through too fast and not get rid of its heat in the rad)

- is your radiator cap working? (no pressure=boiling coolant)

- are there big gaps on either side of the radiator, between it and the core support? (try covering them with heavy cardboard for a test, keeps the air flow THROUGH the radiator, not around it)

- is the thing jetted way lean?

Try some of these and see if any help, let us know what you find.
Most of them should be cheap or even free to test.

Dave-

 

B

Beef97

Member

Dec 24, 2004

46

0

7

Corpus Christi, Texas

Jul 14, 2005

#18

• Jul 14, 2005

• #18

Yeah im going to check on the coolant hoses and make sure they aren't collapsing. I'm interested now in replacing the fuel lines (metal ones). Do i just take them out and try to bend new lines in the same shape or do they sell pre-bent ones? I've had fuel problems in the past and its NOT the carb, fuel pump, gas tank or fuel fliter. I sure hope thats it!