overkill??

[droptopford 5 0]

I posted the same in the general 5.0 section, but no one there seems to be as helpful as the group of guys/girls around here.. hmmm but anyways, it really does belong in the general 5.0 section, even though all questions really are on the powertain, so feel free...post away
My buddy owns a 90 LX (5-0) with nothing more than full bassani exhaust w/ LT's, 3.73's w/ Auburn diff. weld's w/ bfg drag radials, Tremec tko trans, and 70 mm t/b and maf... he has plans on buying trick flow stage 1 TW heads w/ TF track heat intake, and Vortech v-1 s-trim s/c running at 12-15 lbs boost, and full aeromotive ecternal fuel pump and fuel system. it will have a custom chip and the cam is as of now unknown. my question is this... the local shop wants to sell him the aeromotive kit that includes 60 lb injectors!!! isnt this overkill, even for this setup? and also, is this way too much power to be putting on a stock block and bottom end?? what suggestions do you all have to help tame this set-up down? and also what might the weak links be? obviously stock axles and suspension for starters...
oh btw, the car has only 65k miles and is in mint condidtion otherwise
thank
-Kyle

 

[Koniz]

well I would think 60 pnds is kind of high if I was him I would get the HCI setup and fix the weak links before getting the supercharger, and if he absolutely has to have the supercharger right now instead of in the future I would buy the injectors that specific system recommends, more then likely 42s, definitely LCAs

 

[fiveo'cobra]

Yea thats alot of boost and power for a stock block. He is going to throw a rod or crack a piston with that kind of boost. He can stick with the stock block if he pulled it and had it worked over pretty well............decked, sleeved, etc but its really not worth it in the long run. I would recommend him check into DSS or CHP blocks. If he's on a budget he can get a mexican block which is cheap and a good bit stronger than stock. Also if he's going that much boost, he may want to consider building the bottom end with forged parts like crankshaft, rods, and pistons. You're deff going to have to upgrade the cooling system via a bigger radiator and do some tweaking to the timing. If he's going to be pushing over 500whp, he should invest in an MSD box or something similar. 60lb injectors does sound like too much for that combo. I think 48's or 50's would be more suitable for that kind of power.

 

[GRGT1994]

If I were him, I would do the supercharger kit first. Then if he still needs more power, then get a CHP block, forged internals, and AFR heads.

I don't know about those injectors, but the heads/intake/blower is asking for trouble on a stock short block. Also with his power goals, I think the Trickflow heads will be too little. He should probably look into the large valve AFR heads or a more track oriented head than the Twisted Wedge.

 

[final5-0]

12lbs of boost on that combo is not the same as say 12lbs of boost on a combo that is less efficient.

Take a combo like gt40 heads, cobra intake, shortys, etc.

Which one is gonna show more boost?
Which one is gonna be movin more air?

His combo is gonna show less boost
but
It is gonna be movin more air
and that means
His combo is gonna be workin harder at less boost

You gotta give it enough fuel to do all that work.

And then there is this ... What if he cranks it up cause he did not see the amount of boost he was expecting?

You see it all the time with the Vortech h/c/i combos.
They need more fuel than 42's can supply!

He said he is gonna custome tune!

Its a no brainer ... Go For THE 60's

Why ... Please ... Someone tell me WHY is it that most peeps wanna be so stingy with inj size when it comes to their combo?

I can see that kind of reasoning if you are gonna try and work a combo with out a tune.

But come on here people ... lets be open minded about this.

Combos like these ... the vast majority of em are gonna be tuned.

Having said that ... Why not have plenty of fuel or even a bit in reserve.
You will surely be more safe with this line of thinking.
The tune can prevent any drivability issues.

This has always been a mystery to me

anyway ... I'm done now

Grady

 

[droptopford 5 0]

Grady, having said all of this, wouldnt you agree that this is too much power going through a stock block? i'm trying to talk him into just the intake, fual support mods, suspension, and supercharger kit for now, then when he really wants to step up on power, he should just buy an aftermarket block with the trick flow heads/ afr heads etc...and switch over the s/c etc... im just trying to get him to finally put SOME power to the wheels since he does do a lot of track racing... and as of now he just has a really reliable 14 flat car haha. plus as someone had mentioned, there will always be bugs with the setup with some modding, much the less a lot of modding...
Thanks,
-Kyle

 

[final5-0]

Grady, having said all of this, wouldnt you agree that this is too much power going through a stock block? i'm trying to talk him into just the intake, fual support mods, suspension, and supercharger kit for now, then when he really wants to step up on power, he should just buy an aftermarket block with the trick flow heads/ afr heads etc...and switch over the s/c etc... im just trying to get him to finally put SOME power to the wheels since he does do a lot of track racing... and as of now he just has a really reliable 14 flat car haha. plus as someone had mentioned, there will always be bugs with the setup with some modding, much the less a lot of modding...
Thanks,
-Kyle

Hi Kyle

Ha Ha

I do so love your first Question

I think about it a lot these days

My prob with your Question is my own inability to relate to a combo like that.

I always shake my head in disbelief when I see full tilt NA h/c/i stock block combos that then go for the boost thing.

Its just this issue is kinda one of those Catch 22 deals.

Not saying it is wrong.

I'm looking for more myself...I do understand the why of it all

Its just as you have pointed out, taking that last big step puts that combo in the block splitting danger zone

It is so unfortunate that when you wanna make substantially more hp than the typical h/c/i provides, you gotta deal with the weak block

I've looked at this whole deal and always come to the same finding

Big Power.......takes.......Big Money..........if you do it right!

Your idea of blower first has been making more and more sense to me over the past year or so.

I got some ideas about blown combos that might not be received too well by peeps and I gotta research them a bit but still ... I would love to try a thing or two with a blower

Sorry ... I digress Back on track here

Only down side is, its my opinion, a blown combo is gonna require more thought, be a bit more finicky, and things along those lines. I just don't think a blower is for every Stang owner.

Typical Street Car NA combos pretty much don't need a lot of input from their owners to keep em goin. Even a Dufas like me can keep up with one since its so simple

I think you're thinkin right here Kyle

I'm done ramblin now

Wait ... If you was to build that combo

I'd wanna have plenty of fuel
and
those 60's would not scare me the least little bit

Grady

 

[bimmertech]

i think 60's would be dangerous for a stock fuel rail, but since he is going with the aeromotive setup then i agree with Grady.

12-15# with h/c/i is block splitting territory. now you have this big bad dart block, why not a t-trim at 16#. then your gonna need 72's and maybe an impedence converter? where does the madness end.

 

[Monsterbishi]

60#/660cc Should be a good size for 15psi on a blower that size, our general rule that we work by on a 9:1 compression ratio with boosted engines is to match the volume of the bore to the size of the injectors volume/min is equal to 200hp/litre at the flywheel working capacity.

Ford should have been kicked in the head for even putting the 19# injectors in our GT's - they know the heritage of the Mustang better than anybody...

 

[final5-0]

i think 60's would be dangerous for a stock fuel rail, but since he is going with the aeromotive setup then i agree with Grady.

Hey Ben

I'm no expert about this high hp stuff and all the various details of how to support that kind of power.

I'd rate my knowledge in this area kinda like ..............

I know enough to get to the ball park but I don't have enough sense to go from from the parking lot to the field where they play

To me, the stock fuel rails would be one of those details.

Is your concern that they are not capable of flowing enough for those 60's under max conditions?

I have heard our rails can support 600 hp. How much fuel flow that is, I have no idea?

Grady

 

[Monsterbishi]

What is the internal diameter of the fuel rail?

 

[YEAHLOH95]

95-95 rails are different than 93 and back and thus support more power ,i also say go for it blower and all, my combo has been running for 4 years ...

 

[Green 94 5.0]

60lb injectors do seem a bit much for a 302 h/c/i blower car. 42lb injecotrs are sufficient for that. unless he is planning on passing the 600hp mark the 42's should hold their own just fine when combined with a large enough fuel pump and the correct tune.