Performer vs Performer RPM 1

mustangt562 · Jan 9, 2007

I am switching from a Edelbrock Performer to a Performer RPM 1. Do you think Ill see any gains with my current combo if I switch to a RPM 1? and if so how much?

My Combo:
CHP street fighter pro street 347, .509/.532 222/232 (112), AFR 185cc x
61cc, all forged internals, 10:1, main girdle, windage tray, MSD
ignition/dizzy/coil/ timing advance control, fluidyne rad, canton overflow,
ceramic bbk shorty headers, 3.73, 30lb squirt, 255 fuel pump, c&l true flow
pipe, 90mm lmaf, edelbrock performer intake, ported gasket matched lower
intake, flowcooler highflow waterpump, romac 28oz balancer, underdriven
crank pully, oil/tranny coolers, 200amp alt, plx m-300 wideband o2 air/fuel
monitor, autometer phantom oil temp/oil pressure/tranny temp/water temp,
D-PIC, transgo shift kit, b&M deep tranny pan, 70mm tb, bbk intake spacer,
high volume oil pump, magnaflow h-pipe with highflow cats, flowmasters,
autopower 4 point, kirban adjustable fpr, subframe connectors, aluminum
driveshaft, Snow Performance water/meth injection kit, A/C delete, tokico
shocks, thats about all I can think of right now.

Thanks Fellas

Grn92LX · Jan 9, 2007

Yes you will see gains. An exhaust swap is a good move too. 1 5/8" shortys are WAY too small for an afr 185 headed 347. The 185 exh ports are larger than 1 5/8". Porting the lower is a smart move too.

mustangt562 · Jan 9, 2007

Grn92LX said:
Yes you will see gains. An exhaust swap is a good move too. 1 5/8" shortys are WAY too small for an afr 185 headed 347. The 185 exh ports are larger than 1 5/8". Porting the lower is a smart move too.

thanks brother

btw, what type of exhaust do you recomend? I pretty much wanna stick with shortys tho.

earleys94gt · Jan 9, 2007

I think Hooker makes some headers for our cars if your donig a 351 swap...if the ports on your heads are close to those on a 351 they may be worth checking out. I think they make them in shorties, and I thought I saw them in Jeg's.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_744876_-1_10437

520-6133 Street Force Headers
1994-95 w/ 351W Engine
1-5/8" Primary Tubes
3" Collector
High Temp Black Paint
More Details

$229.99

mustangt562 · Jan 9, 2007

for those who dont know

rpm1

rpm2

BlackVert · Jan 10, 2007

So are you going to an RPM or an RPM II?

I would think the torque curve would shift towards the higher rpms, so on a dyno the maximum HP number might be higher. Does that mean it is better or faster? Not necessarily. What about the total area under the torque curve? Don Lasota had a Kenne-Bell based convertible that didn't make the highest HP on the dyno, but his torque curve was high and flat and it came on early and stayed high long enough that he was running in the 11's.

A general rule of thumb is that the more cubes you have, the more the rpm range shifts to the lower RPM range. By that, I mean that if you were to take an intake that has a rpm range of 2500-6500 for a 302, and you put that same intake on a 347, the rpm range would be more like 2000-6000.

It is all about the velocity of the air going through the intake and the pressure waves that bounce back and forth in the intake (created by the air hitting the valves when they close) and how those waves match up with the valve events.

With a 347, the amount of air going though the intake at 4000 rpm is more like what a 302 might be drawing at 4500, so the intake velocity on the 347 is higher at a lower rpm range. The velocity affects the speed of the pressure waves and that affects whether or not the wave rushing towards the valves gets there right when the valves open. That affects how much air gets into the cylinder, and that of course affects how much power you make.

If it is timed perfectly, you can actually achieve a volumetric efficiency of over 100%. That is how NASCAR engines make so much power.

So, which intake is a better match in your case? The proof is in the pudding, but I wonder if the RPM II might even be better, given that you have 347 cubes.

I am going to try out 3 or 4 different intakes on my 410 before I am done. I am not going for the hightst horsepower number off the dyno, I am going for the most area under the torque curve.

Sorry about the long post ...

final5-0 · Jan 10, 2007

Good info has been shared here for sure!

I agree ... for your needs ...you'd want an intake with .......
shorter runners to gain more up top
and
larger port volume to feed the extra cubes

The newer upper won't fit your current lower
so
you might wanna look around for an older upper

Hey ... I'd bet the difference between em .........
ain't gonna be all that much

I'd say go larger with the exhaust system also

Grady

ProKiller · Jan 10, 2007

you'll see some difference. don't think it will be earth shattering but you'll see a difference.

mustangt562 · Jan 10, 2007

BlackVert said:
So are you going to an RPM or an RPM II?

I would think the torque curve would shift towards the higher rpms, so on a dyno the maximum HP number might be higher. Does that mean it is better or faster? Not necessarily. What about the total area under the torque curve? Don Lasota had a Kenne-Bell based convertible that didn't make the highest HP on the dyno, but his torque curve was high and flat and it came on early and stayed high long enough that he was running in the 11's.

A general rule of thumb is that the more cubes you have, the more the rpm range shifts to the lower RPM range. By that, I mean that if you were to take an intake that has a rpm range of 2500-6500 for a 302, and you put that same intake on a 347, the rpm range would be more like 2000-6000.

It is all about the velocity of the air going through the intake and the pressure waves that bounce back and forth in the intake (created by the air hitting the valves when they close) and how those waves match up with the valve events.

With a 347, the amount of air going though the intake at 4000 rpm is more like what a 302 might be drawing at 4500, so the intake velocity on the 347 is higher at a lower rpm range. The velocity affects the speed of the pressure waves and that affects whether or not the wave rushing towards the valves gets there right when the valves open. That affects how much air gets into the cylinder, and that of course affects how much power you make.

If it is timed perfectly, you can actually achieve a volumetric efficiency of over 100%. That is how NASCAR engines make so much power.

So, which intake is a better match in your case? The proof is in the pudding, but I wonder if the RPM II might even be better, given that you have 347 cubes.

I am going to try out 3 or 4 different intakes on my 410 before I am done. I am not going for the hightst horsepower number off the dyno, I am going for the most area under the torque curve.

Sorry about the long post ...

WOW FANTASTIC POST!!!! Thanks for taking the time out to post

mustangt562 · Jan 10, 2007

final5-0 said:
Good info has been shared here for sure!

I agree ... for your needs ...you'd want an intake with .......
shorter runners to gain more up top
and
larger port volume to feed the extra cubes

The newer upper won't fit your current lower
so
you might wanna look around for an older upper

Hey ... I'd bet the difference between em .........
ain't gonna be all that much

I'd say go larger with the exhaust system also

Grady

Hi Grady,

Actually TMOSS is sending me a new in the box rpm1 upper. I got lucky and he had one he was selling. Its actually due to get here today. So I am going to swap out my performer for a rpm1. Cause the rpm1 will fit my nicely ported lower intake. I would love to have the rpm2 but i was inder the impression that the rpm2 upper wont fit the #3820 (performer) lower and has a lower of its own. Also I was under the impression that the rpm2 would not fit under a stock hood, much less with a spacer for tall valve covers. So with all that risk I opted to search for a rpm1 than spend $600.00 for a rpm2 which may or may not fit.

Great post btw,
I love your smileys, wait where are your smileys?

BlackVert · Jan 10, 2007

mustangt562 said:
Hi Grady,

Actually TMOSS is sending me a new in the box rpm1 upper. I got lucky and he had one he was selling. Its actually due to get here today. So I am going to swap out my performer for a rpm1. Cause the rpm1 will fit my nicely ported lower intake. I would love to have the rpm2 but i was inder the impression that the rpm2 upper wont fit the #3820 (performer) lower and has a lower of its own. Also I was under the impression that the rpm2 would not fit under a stock hood, much less with a spacer for tall valve covers. So with all that risk I opted to search for a rpm1 than spend $600.00 for a rpm2 which may or may not fit.

Great post btw,
I love your smileys, wait where are your smileys?

between just the performer and the rpm, i'd say the rpm would probably be the better intake for your combo. do plan on getting it dynoed afterwards?

mustangt562 said:
WOW FANTASTIC POST!!!! Thanks for taking the time out to post

no problem! a little theory never hurts ...

WHITE94COBRA · Jan 11, 2007

My rpm 1 was a bit** to tune correctly, my tuner said he had a hard time with it for some reason??? I currently have my regular performer on my freshly built motor, The rpm1 gave me more hp above 5500 rpm, my cam is good to 6500 rpm, My performer starts losing power right at 5500 rpm, but will keep 300 hp all the way to 6k. I'm getting the rpm2 for my new combo, since I wont lose much lower end over the performer. BTW my new engine is running strong, Got to use pretty much all my old parts, accept for the cam, had the afr's freshened up and gave them a nice port and new valvetrain. My drivetrain is next on the hit list, since the T5 is going to hate the new power. My dyno came out to 334 hp at 6100 rpm, and 342 tq at 5000 rpm. My tuner said there is more in it with the rpm2 or systemax.

BlackVert · Jan 11, 2007

WHITE94COBRA said:
My dyno came out to 334 hp at 6100 rpm, and 342 tq at 5000 rpm. My tuner said there is more in it with the rpm2 or systemax.

that's what we all like to see.

willing to share your cam specs? and that is with a 70mm t/b. there is the intake velocity i was talking about doing its magic.

i have heard nothing but good things about the systemax. and the rpm ii looks like it is similar to the systemax.

final5-0 · Jan 11, 2007

WHITE94COBRA said:
My rpm 1 was a bit** to tune correctly, my tuner said he had a hard time with it for some reason??? I currently have my regular performer on my freshly built motor, The rpm1 gave me more hp above 5500 rpm, my cam is good to 6500 rpm, My performer starts losing power right at 5500 rpm, but will keep 300 hp all the way to 6k. I'm getting the rpm2 for my new combo, since I wont lose much lower end over the performer. BTW my new engine is running strong, Got to use pretty much all my old parts, accept for the cam, had the afr's freshened up and gave them a nice port and new valvetrain. My drivetrain is next on the hit list, since the T5 is going to hate the new power. My dyno came out to 334 hp at 6100 rpm, and 342 tq at 5000 rpm. My tuner said there is more in it with the rpm2 or systemax.

I searched and searched for your dyno pulls

Nothing

Please

Post it up!

Grady

WHITE94COBRA · Jan 11, 2007

Cam specs are 555 lift intake 565 lift exhaust 114 lsa, with 1.6rr. I dont have the cam card in front of me but i'll find it if you would like the rest. I havnt tried a 75mm tb on this set up yet, But make no mistake I WILL.....Grady I didnt get it printed out, however when I get it redone I will get it printed. My a/f stayed right between 12 and 14 also, mostly right at 13. I have to get it retuned after the addition of the rpm2 and the introduction of nitros. i'm looking at 2 to 3 weeks before I do that stuff though The 98 cobra hasnt sold yet, so I dont have overflowing pockets right now.

BlackVert said:
that's what we all like to see. willing to share your cam specs? and that is with a 70mm t/b. there is the intake velocity i was talking about doing its magic.

i have heard nothing but good things about the systemax. and the rpm ii looks like it is similar to the systemax.

BlackVert · Jan 11, 2007

WHITE94COBRA said:
I haven't tried a 75mm tb on this set up yet, But make no mistake I WILL.....

all i can say is, wow that is one well matched setup you have there. some people with 331s would be happy with that kind of power.

how is the driveability?

is the inlet on the rpm ii 70mm or 75mm?

and how about your elbow? 70mm or 75mm?

Grn92LX · Jan 11, 2007

WHITE94COBRA said:
I havnt tried a 75mm tb on this set up yet, But make no mistake I WILL.....

Smart choice, you'll make more power with the 75. Just make sure the elbow and inlet match 75mm but you already know this

What is the rpm powerband on the cam card? Duration?

WHITE94COBRA · Jan 11, 2007

Driveability is pretty good, it bucks below 1200 rpm, but other than a pretty stiff clutch it's not too bad.
I'm not sure on the rpm2 opening, but it will be 75mm since my elbow is already a 75mm, I'm using the 70mm because of my old setup it ran better with the 70mm, And when I say better I dont mean faster, I mean better driveability. To be honest I dont know why it ran better with the 70mm, but with the 75mm it would buck like hell anything under 2k rpm's, with the 70mm it wouldnt do that.

I should have taken pics of my heads after Sid ported them. Sid is my fathers old buddy who in his hayday worked heads over for numerous manufacturers, I cannot explain what he did to them accept he said the intake ports didnt match up very well, and he would be making them line up to the intake, as well as some minor bowl and other port work. They looked the same to me accept they were soooo clean, and the ports were gleaming. I think most of my success with this combo is because of this. Nothing else on my setup is much different from others combo's but i'm putting up great numbers, with good driveability, so we'll see what it puts down after the intake and tb, i'll post results and dyno sheet after.

power band on the cam card is 1500 - 6500 rpm, And i'm having a hell of a time finding the cam card; Can I call Ed for a new cam card??? Cause i'm going crazy trying to locate it.

I'm also upping to the #30 injectors, with nitros the #24's will be a little thin.

BlackVert said:
all i can say is, wow that is one well matched setup you have there. some people with 331s would be happy with that kind of power.

how is the driveability?

is the inlet on the rpm ii 70mm or 75mm?

and how about your elbow? 70mm or 75mm?

mustangt562 · Jan 12, 2007

WHITE94COBRA said:
My rpm 1 was a bit** to tune correctly, my tuner said he had a hard time with it for some reason??? I currently have my regular performer on my freshly built motor, The rpm1 gave me more hp above 5500 rpm, my cam is good to 6500 rpm, My performer starts losing power right at 5500 rpm, but will keep 300 hp all the way to 6k. I'm getting the rpm2 for my new combo, since I wont lose much lower end over the performer. BTW my new engine is running strong, Got to use pretty much all my old parts, accept for the cam, had the afr's freshened up and gave them a nice port and new valvetrain. My drivetrain is next on the hit list, since the T5 is going to hate the new power. My dyno came out to 334 hp at 6100 rpm, and 342 tq at 5000 rpm. My tuner said there is more in it with the rpm2 or systemax.

Let me guess........Steve @ Powertrain Dynamics?

WHITE94COBRA · Jan 12, 2007

yEP, he does good work.

mustangt562 said:
Let me guess........Steve @ Powertrain Dynamics?

Performer vs Performer RPM 1

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