POR-15 failure...

blascrw · Nov 19, 2004

Rust encapsulator

First I am biased...

I bought, and have not yet applied rust encapsultor...

From what I have seen and heard and read over the years Eastwoods is a very reputable company and will not sell anything short of the best product. That is why they have been in business so long.

I plan to do my entire interior with it.

According to Eastwood tech it NEEDS some rust or light rust, or raw metal to have a chemical reaction that promotes adhesion and strength.

But he also said he did his interior and went over CLEAN painted surface and did not have any issues.

I am axious to do mine...hopefully thanksgiving weekend if it is dry and warm enough...

Doing some finish grinding and cleaning this weekend.

Ron

bk005 · Nov 19, 2004

blascrw said:
First I am biased...

I bought, and have not yet applied rust encapsultor...

From what I have seen and heard and read over the years Eastwoods is a very reputable company and will not sell anything short of the best product. That is why they have been in business so long.

I plan to do my entire interior with it.

According to Eastwood tech it NEEDS some rust or light rust, or raw metal to have a chemical reaction that promotes adhesion and strength.

But he also said he did his interior and went over CLEAN painted surface and did not have any issues.

I am axious to do mine...hopefully thanksgiving weekend if it is dry and warm enough...

Doing some finish grinding and cleaning this weekend.

Ron

I just hate the premis of having to have rusty sheey metal so my protection paint can stick. Id rather take it bare and put some epoxy primer over it. I stil have my quart of POR 15 on the Shelf, I havent figureed If I wanted to use it yet. They say it sticks good to sandblasted surface, so I might try that.

hungrymonkey · Nov 20, 2004

zookeeper said:
I'm not sure which part of Oregon you moved to, but if it's anywhere the coast, then that's the problem. I live near the Oregon border in California, and I can tell you this much, rusty cars used to be everywhere before manufacturers started galvanizing body panels. Some people who don't have garages simply cover their cars in a carport and that makes it worse by creating a "rain forest" under the cover and holding the condensation inside.

the willamete valley. no salty air, but it rains a bunch.

65stanger · Nov 20, 2004

HM, I POR15'd my floorpans etc., about the time you did your car and have had NO problem with it at all, and L.I. is a prime rust zone.

HyYoSilver · Nov 20, 2004

POR-15 seals the rust from water and oxygen, thereby preventing further rusting, but if you want something better, try a rust converter. It changes the chemical composition of the rust, and seems to work better than the POR-15 does. The Interstate Co. makes a good converter, and I've heard good things from one called "Rust Bullet". I think Eastwood's rust encapsulator is considered a converter, although I haven't tried it.

The rust converters are usually either phosphoric acid or citric acid based.

POR-15 Depot · Dec 14, 2004

HyYoSilver said:
POR-15 seals the rust from water and oxygen, thereby preventing further rusting,

<snip>

The rust converters are usually either phosphoric acid or citric acid based.

If you use the METAL-READY that POR-15 suggests as a step in the process your doing just that. METAL-READY is a surface prep for POR-15 and it's also a rust converter and changes the rust to a zinc coating, thus no more rust. The POR-15 then seals the surface from water and oxygen.

TheShagg · Dec 16, 2004

I've noticed a couple things. First, you want the metal as rough as possible. I can only get it to stick to freshly sandblasted parts. Second, try using it on a warm day. This stuff gets really really thing on warm days, and i think that will allow it to seep into the texture and rust better.

Once it sticks, you can barely sandblast it off. But if it doesnt, it will peel off like chrome on bent metal.

I think the only reason other things work better from time to time (like eastwoods rust encapsulator) is that they are much more forgiving with the application. If you aren't going to sand blast, i suggest rust encapsulator.

69 Rustang · Dec 17, 2004

one2gamble said:
I have actually been considering putting the spray on bedliner on my undercarriage after rust treatment but I havent been able to make a decision. Though your the first person I have heard of with a por15 failure. Could it be rusting through from the top side?

I would be a little afraid to do that in case there was a problem in the future--fixing it/removing it could suck. I am sandblasting and using two different processes depending on the parts I am painting. Some parts are blasted then spraying on an etching primer with a high chromium content followed by a urethane primer and paint. Other areas are blasted and epoxy primed, then painted. (In case you wonder the epoxy cannot be applied over the etching primer). There are some primers that are CIP (Corrosion Inhibitive) that would streamline my processes to one rather than the two outlined above.

One poster said--"prep is the key" and I couldn't agree more. One reason why I am going to bare metal every time. We'll see how my work holds up once I am done...although I do now live in SoCal

TrophyHead · May 15, 2005

I found this thread while searching....I would like to add.

You have to do 4 stages of prep/paint when using POR-15. It's really not that great unless you prep it right.

Here is a link: http://www.rustbullet.com/Comparison/ProdComp.htm

That rustbullet stuff is supposed to be the best one stage rust proofing stuff you can buy.

rusted-resto · May 15, 2005

I have a friend that applied por-15 to his frame when the product first came out. It was rusted pretty bad. He lives up in Portland, Or. And has had no problems. As for me I have had it on my floorpans for about a year and no problems. I live on the coast in Nor-cal. I noticed that you really have to rinse the metal after you use the Metal Ready!

dennis112 · May 15, 2005

Hungrymonkey only mentions about putting 2 coats on the underside. If only the underbody was done, the POR might not be the cause. My experience says that the moisture and the resulting rust probably originated from the inside of the car-normally from a leaking cowl or window gasket.

meanroy · May 15, 2005

Thats a bummer

hungrymonkey said:
I crawled under my 67 last week to hook it up to the tow trailer (long story that is better suited for talk.)

anyways, I noticed that I had some rust poking out on my floorboards. Which is really dissappointing. considering I have two coats of POR-15 applied under there.

I wasnt able to get a good visual on the entire underside. But it is definantly rust.

Anyone else have this happen? it has been on there for about two years or longer. and I probably have less than 2,000 miles on the car.

I used it on my '65 and found no evidence of rust when I dis-assembled it. (and I DO mean dis-assembled!)

I recommend contacting the POR folks and telling them about the problem. They may be able to pin point whats gone wrong.

Roy.

hungrymonkey · May 16, 2005

Every square inch that is not visiable from the exterior is painted with POR.

floor pans, trunk, underbody...

I will post some pictures at the end of the month. I finally moved into a place with a garage. So I can start tinkering again.

hungrymonkey · Sep 18, 2005

I pulled the carpet and sound deadener today. There was beaded moisture, but no standing water.

I used a towel to wipe it dry and the por 15 came off. the por was blistered, and inside the blisters was water.

I started scraping it away and somehow it had pulled the water in between the por and floor pan.

looks like I will have to replace the passenger side rear floor pan. I might just cut a piece of sheet metal to fit and weld it in. Its not rusted through, but it is definantly weaker than the rest, I can flex it with some force.

The por that was in areas that water could not collect was still intact, and Its a bitch to remove. But the por where water could collect is coming off like soggy newspaper.

dont know what I am going to go with now, I have por on every square inch that I could put it on. I am definantly not looking forward to scraping it all off. I might just break down and chemically dip my car, then start over with it.

its around $600, but then I have to get it painted right after. It might have to wait until this spring.

67efivert · Sep 18, 2005

im not sure who said the muratic acid by now but just to let everyone know that stuff will even eat off chrome and dissovle metal if left on to long i soaked some rims in it awile back to remove the reamins of the chrome which worked but i had holes in the rim too

65stanger · Sep 18, 2005

hungrymonkey said:
I pulled the carpet and sound deadener today. There was beaded moisture, but no standing water.

I used a towel to wipe it dry and the por 15 came off. the por was blistered, and inside the blisters was water.

I started scraping it away and somehow it had pulled the water in between the por and floor pan.

looks like I will have to replace the passenger side rear floor pan. I might just cut a piece of sheet metal to fit and weld it in. Its not rusted through, but it is definantly weaker than the rest, I can flex it with some force.

The por that was in areas that water could not collect was still intact, and Its a bitch to remove. But the por where water could collect is coming off like soggy newspaper.

dont know what I am going to go with now, I have por on every square inch that I could put it on. I am definantly not looking forward to scraping it all off. I might just break down and chemically dip my car, then start over with it.

its around $600, but then I have to get it painted right after. It might have to wait until this spring.

HM---
Did you follow their directions when doing the prep work? I've had standing water on my floorpans and absolutely no sign of the POR15 failing..............

Platonic Solid · Sep 18, 2005

65stanger said:
HM---
Did you follow their directions when doing the prep work? I've had standing water on my floorpans and absolutely no sign of the POR15 failing..............

I second that. I'd like to know exactly what steps were done and materials used.

ozstang65 · Sep 18, 2005

hungrymonkey said:
I am definantly not looking forward to scraping it all off.

Get ready to be dissapointed because:

hungrymonkey said:
I might just break down and chemically dip my car..

will not get it off. Just redo the areas that have failed.

Is it under the car or inside? (or both??)

hungrymonkey · Sep 18, 2005

I used the prep and chemicals that por-15 said to use.

I didnt use anything that they told me not to. It was the metal ready, and the other stuff (marine clean I think).

a chem dip wont take the stuff off eh.
I know that brake fluid will make it blister and come off.

it seems like if I can get an area to start peeling, it will come off in big chunks. I will have to do alot of scraping, because I put the stuff everywhere. trunk, floorpans, underbody, engine bay.

Fritz, I was kind of wondering how yours was holding up. I think you did yours right after I did mine. Dark buddha had his done right around the same time as well.

I will probably strip the interior and use something else. Then redo the rest of the car later on. It seems to be holding up on the engine bay, and trunk.

The wierd thing is that the seam sealer worked perfect, The POR underneath it looks perfectly normal.

fwiw. My car had no rust on it when I put the por on.

Platonic Solid · Sep 19, 2005

Hmph. In light of your experience and the incredible PIA Por15 is to work with, I may have to reconsider how I treat my engine bay, interior floors and undercarriage (which are all rust free). Por15 is way too much work to end up with questionable results.

I know the metal needs some tooth for Por15 to bite into. I thought the flash rust that develops after rinsing the “metal ready” off was enough to provide that. I’ve also always been concerned about Por15’s over-sensitivity to the slightest contamination. As they say in their instructions – one drop of sweat in the can will ruin the whole container.

I agree with ozstang65. I would just redo the affected areas.
.

POR-15 failure...

blascrw

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bk005

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hungrymonkey

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65stanger

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HyYoSilver

POR-15 Depot

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TheShagg

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69 Rustang

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meanroy

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67efivert

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