Possibly the greatest American car ever??

[stock50LX]

Perhaps that is it. I've owned Mustangs since not long after I got my license (which was a mere 15 years ago... ). And I still own one. And probably will own many more, based on my history (seven so far...).

And this is entirely a matter of opinion.

I find that I don't enjoy working on my daily driver, I'd rather spend time working on something that doesn't have the pressure of having to be running again by morning. And yet, I would like to drive a nice, well performing, comfortable car. Every day. Because I don't drive 1 mile to work, I drive 25 miles to work, and I spend over an hour of every day of my life in my car.

I have no problem with your opinion on this, really. Where you lost me was when you insisted on acting pouty and taunting the Vette for no particular reason, claiming you can equal the performance by adding a few cheap toys to your Mustang (a point which I would be happy to debate... ). The point of this thread was to appreciate what a fine piece of craftsmanship the Z06 is. And unless you are seriously deluded, you have to recognize that making a Mustang perform like the '06 Z06 is impossible, unless you confine yourself to one-dimensional measurements like straight-line speed. The Vette is a great example of pulling together amazing performance in every category. Even cost.

Dave

As far as your drive to work and wanting a nice car. I agree. But usually a daily driver gets a little bruised in the parking lot etc. So that is an issue. I usually drive my truck to work and my Mustangs are garage furniture.

Sure, it's as opinion.

Lastly, I would take you up on that bet. I feel strongly that the Mustang with mods could beat the Vette. You buy the Vette, and I will put a 408 in my Mustang, just to be certain that I win. Isn't that the purest form of vehicle competition? Actually, I can win with my 351, still NA, of course, but better heads will be needed. And, yes one dimensional, straight-line performance is what I am into, so that is the contest. I acknowledge that you opted out on the straight line bit, but I am not interested in road courses. I am not saying the roadracing has no merit; I am just not interested in it. I thought we were talking about straight-line performance all this time.

 

[Rootus]

If straight line acceleration is all that is important to you, then of course you can build something faster than the Vette. Look through my recent threads in this forum, I posted a video of a Yugo that would beat almost every Mustang in this forum. Including yours .

But that is extremely one dimensional, and extremely boring. There is much more to performance than how fast I can accelerate.

Dave

 

[ddonaca351]

Nope, the Z06 does handle better than the STi and the viper. Whoever said the viper was more predictable should either not be biased or learn how to drive. The Z06 got the 2nd best ever time for a production car at the Nürburgring right after the Carrera GT which was 10sec faster but also had a flying start compared to the vette's standing start. Not even the Ferrari's or Lambo's came close.
So you really think that a "tuned" suspenssion rally look alike 4 door family car is going to out handle a purposely built for handling car like the Z06?
The Impreza STi does not share a any of the suspenssion, drive train, brakes and engine components with the $800k WRC version.

Well the ones who said the viper did better were the three journalists (granted not the best drivers...) two men and one woman as I recall...

As to an STI yes I do think that an ALL WHEEL DRIVE car with equal p-t-w will out handle the vette. Many people see a time on a road course and conclude the vette outhandles said vehicle, however if the STI had the same p-t-w, I think having all 4 wheels pulling, would blow the vettes doors off. But again jmo...

I also think that for the price (about 80-90k after dealer rape) I would much rather have a whole garage full of other kick ass cars (cobra,sti,gnx,evo, etc...), or 100k worth of bad-ass porsche or ferrari. But again thats just me.

The dethcamp circuit is not the only track, what rocks on its looooonnng straits, might suck on suzukas tight corners... it all depends.

DD

 

[stock50LX]

If straight line acceleration is all that is important to you, then of course you can build something faster than the Vette. Look through my recent threads in this forum, I posted a video of a Yugo that would beat almost every Mustang in this forum. Including yours .

But that is extremely one dimensional, and extremely boring. There is much more to performance than how fast I can accelerate.

Dave

At the end of the day, it's all dumb. It's expensive and pointless, but I like to do it!

 

[Darkness]

I have to agree with Dave on this, he is very right. Its easy to make a mustang out handle a stock 06 Z06, but at that point we're talking racecar category and you cant drive something like that in the street. Too harsh and too bumpy ride, plus you need a roll cage to stiffen up the whole thing, because honestly a stock mustang handles like a wet noodle.

Lastly, I would take you up on that bet. I feel strongly that the Mustang with mods could beat the Vette. You buy the Vette, and I will put a 408 in my Mustang, just to be certain that I win. Isn't that the purest form of vehicle competition? Actually, I can win with my 351, still NA, of course, but better heads will be needed. And, yes one dimensional, straight-line performance is what I am into, so that is the contest. I acknowledge that you opted out on the straight line bit, but I am not interested in road courses. I am not saying the road racing has no merit; I am just not interested in it. I thought we were talking about straight-line performance all this time.

And why were you thinking straight line??? Cars dont just go in straight lines, plus, why wont we compare comfort levels and amenities? Weight? But if you really want to compare straight line speed, it would interesting to see what kind of numbers a 408 foe could pull against a 06 Z06 from say.... 160mph to 190mph? Do you think you could handle that? Hey its still straight line, lets just make things more interesting. OR could your 408 fox still get 25mpg on the HWY and do a 1000 mile road trip without needing any kind of attention?

 

[94gsl5.0]

I just want to add that even the full on race JGTC STI's are converted to rear wheel drive... to decrease laptimes. Rear wheel drive with the same power to weight ratio can win on a road course.... Equaly able drivers at the helm, of course.

All wheel drive is inherently heavy and likes to push.... It is not the have-all-be-all of handling. Not saying the STI does not handle well.. I have had 1st hand expereince with STI's and Evolution 8's (Similar car). They handle like no other.... but to say all-wheel-drive will always win giving power to weight ratio being the same is a bit much.... IMHO.

 

[Rootus]

All wheel drive is inherently heavy and likes to push.... It is not the have-all-be-all of handling. Not saying the STI does not handle well.. I have had 1st hand expereince with STI's and Evolution 8's (Similar car). They handle like no other.... but to say all-wheel-drive will always win giving power to weight ratio being the same is a bit much.... IMHO.

I agree. The awesome handling of the STI and Evo likely has more to do with excellent suspension design than the fact that all four wheels are driven. The AWD definitely adds some flavor, but I don't think it comes to play most of the time [on dry pavement at least ].

Dave

 

[Darkness]

I just want to add that even the full on race JGTC STI's are converted to rear wheel drive... to decrease laptimes. Rear wheel drive with the same power to weight ratio can win on a road course.... Equaly able drivers at the helm, of course.

Not true. An AWD car WILL have an advantage on tight courses. It may be the fact that the impreza in JGTC was converted to RWD but was it for handling reasons or because of class requirement?

I dont know if you used to watch German DTM back in the mid 90's but there were 3 cars in DTM at the time.
Mercedes C36 AMG with RWD
Alfa Romeo 155 with AWD
Opel Calibra with AWD

Both the Alfa and Opel had an obvious advantage over the Mercedes on tight courses due to the AWD but the Benz had greater advatages on straights and faster courses because of a slight power advantage and AWD wasnt as beneficial.

But the fact is that AWD only becomes beneficial when you start getting loss of grip. So if you're smooth through a road course you wont see much advantage on an AWD car. Its fun to have one in the snow though

 

[Darkness]

Now that we're talking about AWD cars. Do you think you could go this fast with a RWD car?

Vid 1

Vid 2

Same driver by the way.

 

[94gsl5.0]

I agree that is fast (and not to mention godly car control!!!) ...but in a totally different context than what was being talked about earlier. Earlier Nuerburgring was mentioned, not a Rally, be it dirt or tarmac.

Rally cars are built for ALL TERRAIN speed.

If we want to play this game....What about F-1 Cars? All F-1 cars are rear wheel drive and do it in the environment that earlier was being argued.... the road course. You don't see f-1 cars needing all wheel drive to attain extreme speeds and g forces.

Each type of car has strengths and weaknesses but to say that all wheel drive is ALL WAYS better handling than a rear wheel drive car is pushing it.

Not trying to argue, just voicing my opinion... and we all know opinions are like a$$holes... everyones got one

 

[stock50LX]

I have to agree with Dave on this, he is very right. Its easy to make a mustang out handle a stock 06 Z06, but at that point we're talking racecar category and you cant drive something like that in the street. Too harsh and too bumpy ride, plus you need a roll cage to stiffen up the whole thing, because honestly a stock mustang handles like a wet noodle.


And why were you thinking straight line??? Cars dont just go in straight lines, plus, why wont we compare comfort levels and amenities? Weight? But if you really want to compare straight line speed, it would interesting to see what kind of numbers a 408 foe could pull against a 06 Z06 from say.... 160mph to 190mph? Do you think you could handle that? Hey its still straight line, lets just make things more interesting. OR could your 408 fox still get 25mpg on the HWY and do a 1000 mile road trip without needing any kind of attention?

My original comment was that the new Zo6 could be beaten on the dragstrip by my modified and vastly cheaper Mustang. I stand by that comment. I made no other comments about handling, braking, leather seats, stereo systems, gas mileage, squeaks rattles, plastic bodies, decreasing values, etc, etc.

Drag racing is an enjoyable sport form me. If you want to boast about this car or that one in the context of drag racing then I might call you on it, in good humor. This is not a business for me; it is strictly a hobby and I prefer to keep all relationships positive. I am willing to prove my points. Let's limit the claims to drag racing where such claims can be demonstrated. The tracks are accessible and the cost is not great.

 

[Johnnb]

Couple other cool Z06 vids....

Vid 1
Vid 2

This car is just an animal.

 

[Rootus]

Let's limit the claims to drag racing where such claims can be demonstrated. The tracks are accessible and the cost is not great.

The track is also available for road racing . I don't have a Z06 to bring to test, but my STI will do okay .

I can sum up my own priorities by saying this -- I don't care if it is the fastest in a straight line, fastest in the twisties, fastest at braking, most sexy (by whomever's definition), etc. The only thing that really matters to me is how much fun it is to drive. Everything else is shallow .

Dave

 

[Johnnb]

I don't care if it is the fastest in a straight line, fastest in the twisties, fastest at braking, most sexy (by whomever's definition), etc. The only thing that really matters to me is how much fun it is to drive. Everything else is shallow .

Dave

That's exactly how I feel about my notchback, as I sold my Audi A6 to have it and my wife hates it and can't see how I could go from the Audi to the Mustang. I just tell her that every time I get in the Mustang or think about driving the Mustang I get a smile on my face and love every second of it and that's all that matters to me.

Your statement is dead on, even if we are talking about a completely riced out Civic. If they like it and it's their style and makes them happy then that's all that matters.

 

[stock50LX]

The track is also available for road racing . I don't have a Z06 to bring to test, but my STI will do okay .

I can sum up my own priorities by saying this -- I don't care if it is the fastest in a straight line, fastest in the twisties, fastest at braking, most sexy (by whomever's definition), etc. The only thing that really matters to me is how much fun it is to drive. Everything else is shallow .

Dave

I can agree with that, but I would add that, for me, acceleration is what makes it fun.

 

[Darkness]

My original comment was that the new Zo6 could be beaten on the dragstrip by my modified and vastly cheaper Mustang. I stand by that comment. I made no other comments about handling, braking, leather seats, stereo systems, gas mileage, squeaks rattles, plastic bodies, decreasing values, etc, etc.

Drag racing is an enjoyable sport form me. If you want to boast about this car or that one in the context of drag racing then I might call you on it, in good humor. This is not a business for me; it is strictly a hobby and I prefer to keep all relationships positive. I am willing to prove my points. Let's limit the claims to drag racing where such claims can be demonstrated. The tracks are accessible and the cost is not great.

Well you can beat any stock car in the in straight line speed. Straight line speed in the easiest and cheapest car performance we are able to make. Just slap a few good parts together and there you go, beat any car out there. If you want to go fast in the 1/4 for cheap just buy a bike! But thats not the point, the point is doing so while having all the other amenities. But figure this, the 06 Z06 goes mid 11's at 125mph in the 1320 bone stock with stocks tires and all. It wouldnt be too cheap to do that in a mustang. And just imagine what the Z06 could do with 150-200 shot and better tires? 9's easy. Now thats what I would call fun, and after you pulled a 9's sec slip you could still go corner carving with it right away.

But anyways, its just like Dave said, its what makes you happy. And to tell you the truth I'd still take an old viper GTS over the vette. Why, cause I dont need all the doodahs that come in the vette and preffer the pure raw power of the viper. Ohh and yes the viper is the most unrefined car I've ever driven. Bumpy, loud, unpredictable handling, offset pedal assembly that makes it a night mare to toe/heel, the shifter is something you need 2 hands to handle, and when you hit the brakes hard you gotta hold on for dear life. But I like it and probably will buy one in the spring.

So if the mustang really makes you happy keep it. As far as the audi A6 I have an S6 right now and love it. Will be good when the snow gets here!