problem still... cranks but no start after warm sometimes?

Strype

Cuthbert catcher
Founding Member
May 11, 1999
61
34
104
Huntsvegas, AL
I'm about done with this car. I'm wondering if I should take it to an auto electric place. This has been happening since last september when I put in a 1" upper to lower intake spacer, might have done more that weekend and can't remember.

jrichker gave me this great checklist, it's much more than I had for sure... but I don't know what some things are and some I'm sure I could cross some of it off:



Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor
E.) ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
F.) Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire.
H.) Computer

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars


2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles...-iv_codes.html for a description of the test connector. If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay. The fuse links live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.

A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test the injector wiring.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.

a.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
b.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
c.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.


4.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.

A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.

***Just to help me, has anyone had an intermittent starting problem. Starter turns engine but no start?***

I've changed the distributor/tps/Idle air bypass/plugs/control module/coil twice/starter solonoid/ unhooked msd 6al. I dunno what I should check off. It's gonna be in the 30's all week and Ican't get out to check it. It seems to start after a few hours. Thanks guys, if you can help eliminate anything I won't have to freeze to death (no garage)!
 
Just about the only thing you can do is wait and troubleshoot when it quits starting. Unfortunately, that's usually about the time your'e really in a hurry to go somewhere. Be persistant and you will find the problem.
 
Most Ford hot no start probs are because something electrical that fails hot. In Durapsparks, it is the pickup module in the dist. The TFI modules continue this tradition.

You indicate that you changed the dist. If that included the pickup assembly inside and the tfi, I would at least check them again. Did you put the dielectric grease under the tfi?

Next would be the coil.

A failing wire in the coil power circuit will cause this. But usually that will start and then stall.

It should show codes, and it may shut the fuel pump off it sees a long crank with no start.

You may have one of the hard to find probs, such as the pip signal is fine from the dist at cold start, but the signal quality is just a bit poorer when hot. This may set a code, but takes a scope on the pip signal to diagnose for sure. A dist change again or temporary one from a known good car might find it.

There is an EEC push start mode (for stick cars) that will start with less signal, can you push it?

A failed fuel pump check valve will cause a long crank, but will usually start after 3 or 4 successive tries.
 
Yeah that's what I thought... a hard to find problem, I think I'll try to run codes and get the control module checked again to see if something is burning it out. The only search where I could find a similar problem and solution ended up being the computer. The car has 190k on it so it's no telling really. I should buy another mustang, switch my parts out and sell this one but i don't have the $$$ and I've got way too much invested now...

Oh yeah I did use the dielectric grease. I might try a new distributor? This one was a reman...
 
Yeah, we've tried that too... it is getting spark after the coil. How do you test for spark at the plugs?

The wires look in great shape, for some reason that's the only thing I haven't changed... but I just can't see that being the problem.
 
This is really heart wrenching... after years of not being able to afford another mustang I finally get one and months later it still dies on me. :(

Like I said I don't think it did this til I changed to an intake spacer and fixed all of the vacuum lines. Then it started doing this so I got a Fuel Pressure guage and set it to 40 psi... it is still doing it. The car feels kind of hesitant sometimes and then you know next time it won't crank.

Also it hasn't died on me in a while when I was driving so that part may be fixed. But I can't drive this thing anywhere for fear I can't get back because it won't crank!
 
New:

I talked with my buddy who was helping me with the spark test... he said we were Not always getting spark from the coil... I have 3 coils we've tried 2 of which are brand new-

What would that point to? Computer? Ignition Switch? This is really chappin my butt LOL!!!