Project high rev blown 327 has began...

[moneypit94]

As the title states i have just started ordering new components for my second prodject.

Just won an auction on ebay for a set of new low compression 331 pistons (std bore). Couldn't pass them up.. 300 bucks for a new set of Forged Probe pistons..

This is coming from my mustang fund which i finally got a little money built up in again. (sold stock motor, and a few other things sitting around)

Anyways here's my plans...

-Internally balanced 327 (all forged)
-Aluminum flywheel (i think.. haven't quite decided)
-Still hunting a dart or R block (probably go Dart sportsman)
-Sollid Roller Cam (plan on around 8000 Rpm shift point) Wanted to go hyd but was told I would be replacing lifters a lot with anything over 7000 rpms.
-Upgrading valves/valve springs for sollid roller cam...
-For now im gonna see what my s-trim can handle- hope to make around 17psi(look to upgrade later)
-Upgraded fuel system (already upgrade fuel rails Just need pumps and new line from the tank to the rails)
-And i haven't decided if i want to jump up to high impedence or not yet. Will have to look at my options.


Look to order the crank and maybe the rods later this week. hope to be done by spring...

Plans may change.. May find out the blower will put to much stress on the crank for those rpms? Hope not though. Haven't quite done all my research, but a lot of the details are based off cam and can be changed later so its not a loss and the structure will be there to make really good POWER..

Lets see if the stock tranny can hold this..

 

[Numbles]

Sound like a stout combo your putting together.

Are you going to be running new heads and everything with this combo. What about upping to a shorter gear. 4.10 or something like that with a tall tire. Probably benefit you more.

BTW, are you going to get rid of the old shortblock for the new block and parts. Because Id be interested in your shortblock.

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Sweet! What are your mods right now?

 

[Numbles]

I just looked at your new best since the last time I saw you post. Id say enjoy the car untill it lets go. No need taking it apart for something new. Unless your just stock piling the parts untill the day. Congrats on breaking 10's

 

[moneypit94]

Sweet! What are your mods right now?

331 with fti cam, D&D motorsport stage 2 ported tfs track heat heads, and a holley systemax 2 intake...

I think i will stick with my heads for now and upgrade the springs retainers, and valves. Not sure on the intake yet... may keep mine or an EFI Spider or something

 

[moneypit94]

I just looked at your new best since the last time I saw you post. Id say enjoy the car untill it lets go. No need taking it apart for something new. Unless your just stock piling the parts untill the day. Congrats on breaking 10's

well its one of those things... You either run on what you have intil it breaks (good chance what im putting it through) or you sell your unbroken parts now for a decent price and upgrade, and if your upgrading you might as well improve the performance while your at it...

 

[Joes95GT]

What kind of crank and rods? If it were me, I'd keep it American. That foreign stuff starts to get scary when you spin it.

Does the Sportsman block come machined for roller lifters or flat tappets?

I'd be curious as to how much you could get for the heads, too. If it wouldn't be too much of a stretch (money-wise) I'd sell them and buy AT LEAST an AFR 205. If it's a drag car, I'd look into the 225, but I think the valves would be a bit shrouded with a standard bore.

Also, why not go with a 3.400 stroke crank? They're the same price.

Joe

 

[moneypit94]

Well as far as the rods and crank go im gonna go scat or Eagle.. Eagle is a little higher priced but they do have a 331 crank that is already weighted for an internal balance setup. (no heavy metals needed.)

Far as i know, the block comes machined to the specs of the stock block so for roller lifters.. I will have to check that out though.

Far as the heads.. I have been pondering on which route to go... I mean i already spent 1750 bucks on these heads.. I guess that one depends on how taxes go this year.

Really though i just want to get the shortblock put together first and go from there.

Far as the 3.400 stroke (342) I would have to go with a 5.315 rod due to the pistons i have. I want to keep the slightly longer rod, better piston/rod angle.

Plus a guy locally has a blown 342 already...

 

[Joes95GT]

Well as far as the rods and crank go im gonna go scat or Eagle.. Eagle is a little higher priced but they do have a 331 crank that is already weighted for an internal balance setup. (no heavy metals needed.)

Far as i know, the block comes machined to the specs of the stock block so for roller lifters.. I will have to check that out though.

Far as the heads.. I have been pondering on which route to go... I mean i already spent 1750 bucks on these heads.. I guess that one depends on how taxes go this year.

Really though i just want to get the shortblock put together first and go from there.

Far as the 3.400 stroke (342) I would have to go with a 5.315 rod due to the pistons i have. I want to keep the slightly longer rod, better piston/rod angle.

Plus a guy locally has a blown 342 already...

I did the math as apart of a project I had to do for school. If memory serves me correctly, the rod angle between the 342 and 327 is nearly identical (less than 2 degrees).

Probe/CHP markets both their 331 and 347 shortblocks with the 5.315 rod, although they do have the 5.400 available. The myth with the 5.400 rod is that it will intersect the piston pin and cause a oil consumption problem. It also causes you to run a shorter compression height, jamming the rings closer together, thus "potentially" causing oil consumption issues again.

By the way you said it, I take it you are going to be using a 5.400 rod? If so, check out the math...

Rod-to-stroke ratio (302) - 5.090/3.000 = 1.70
Rod-to-stroke ratio (327) - 5.400/3.250 = 1.66
Rod-to stroke ratio (342) - 5.315/3.400 = 1.56

See where I'm going with this? (WITHIN REASON)

Rod-to-stroke ratio don't mean jack. Especially in a blower car. Piston speed is the name of the game.

I've heard about Eagle's new internally balanced cranks and I've heard pretty good reviews about them, but not at levels you are going to run it at. You figure, with a healthy solid cam (at 8000 RPM) with 17 pounds of boost, you are looking at roughly 2.5 RWHP per cube. That equates to something in the neighborhood of 3 HP/CI at the crank. 3 x 327 = ~1000. Ouch.

I'm not telling you that you're wrong, but I would talk to a few vendors and see if that crank (or any other Chinese crank) will hold to something like that. The reason I say this: I've seen an SCAT crank exit stage left in a 600 horsepower 8500 RPM 347. From what I read the difference between the quality of the two (Eagle and SCAT) is negligible. With more boost and more horsepower, I can't see it holding up for too long.

The tune is everything, however. If you keep the motor fat, it may live. That's why I recommend you talk to someone, preferably (for your sake), a dealer who sells both American and Chinese cranks. They'll have no motive to sell you one brand over the other. It'll be based on what YOU need rather than what THEY have to offer.

Please don't take any offense to what I've said. It's just me babbling. I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I said what I've said to let you see both sides of the story...

Joe

 

[moneypit94]

actually i take no offence at all.. But i was under assumption that Eagle and Scat were american made..

Its better to figure this stuff out before i buy... What would you suggest? Something like Oliver or something like Hawk?

I don't see all that many brands out there... I think a lot of the stability of the motor has to deal with how good of a balance job you get on it.. I plan on having everything balanced including the pressure plate to the flywheel.

I hope you give me some more imput..
Thanks

 

[Joes95GT]

actually i take no offence at all.. But i was under assumption that Eagle and Scat were american made..

Its better to figure this stuff out before i buy... What would you suggest? Something like Oliver or something like Hawk?

I don't see all that many brands out there... I think a lot of the stability of the motor has to deal with how good of a balance job you get on it.. I plan on having everything balanced including the pressure plate to the flywheel.

I hope you give me some more imput..
Thanks

I'm always good for a few opinions...

Eagle and SCAT are both Chinese.

For cranks, you can't beat a Callies. Not for the quality anyway. The price is what hurts. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong about "needing" an American crank.

Although it's a bit far, I'd recommend that you call Brian @ AD Performance. He sells DART blocks, American and Chinese cranks, plenty of connecting rods, and AFR heads, just to name a few. I believe he stocks most of these parts, too. He is VERY knowledgeable and will definitely steer you in the right direction with no other motive other than your satisfaction. 425-941-2267.

If it's a pure drag car, I'd balance it to zero. If not, I'd balance it to 28 oz. Again, these are just my opinions and your concerns should be discussed with whoever you talk to about the motor.

Joe

 

[moneypit94]

Well i did a little research because i have called scat before... They are an american based company that made there way in california by selling and manufacturing VW parts in like the 60's.

Our Redondo Beach, California 42,000 square foot facility houses our state-of-the-art manufacturing facility, our distribution & packaging center and our complete in-house engineering department.

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/FS_800.htm

And i have bought parts off of Brian Before.. I will email him and see what he thinks.. which is sorta funny cause his email is [email protected]

Now on the other hand im not sure about eagle..

But anyway you say stay away from eagle and scat... I guess i will take your word for it..

 

[94TURBO5 O]

well its one of those things... You either run on what you have until it breaks (good chance what im putting it through) or you sell your unbroken parts now for a decent price and upgrade, and if your upgrading you might as well improve the performance while your at it...

We think the same. That is exactly the way I'm still doing things. I predict 9's for you this spring.

 

[Joes95GT]

Well i did a little research because i have called scat before... They are an american based company that made there way in california by selling and manufacturing VW parts in like the 60's.

Our Redondo Beach, California 42,000 square foot facility houses our state-of-the-art manufacturing facility, our distribution & packaging center and our complete in-house engineering department.

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/FS_800.htm

And i have bought parts off of Brian Before.. I will email him and see what he thinks.. which is sorta funny cause his email is [email protected]

Now on the other hand im not sure about eagle..

But anyway you say stay away from eagle and scat... I guess i will take your word for it..

I'm almost 100% certain that SCAT and Eagle are foreign, although their website says differently. I think the cranks are poured and rough-cut in China then brought to the states for the final machining. What gives a crank it's stength and quality is the way it was manufactured (i.e. poured/molded/formed, whatever the technical name is for it).

I was also going to say that it was ironic that his email address is what it is.

Like I said before, don't take my word for what I say. Go out and get other opinions; mainly those from professionals, such as Brian. I'm just a benchracer who knows a little bit about engine building.

Joe

 

[moneypit94]

I emailed Brian last night.. he said that he thought i would be just fine with a scat or eagle forging.. that he knows of a few cars making more power then what im looking at.

Also i talked to my dad today he said that Scat was american based.. You can call them up and they will make you anything you want...

Anyways... Why did you say 28 for street and 0 for drag? I was planning on going 0 due to the amount of RPMS anyway?